B&K vs. Outlaw (for LSi)

ToddB

After trying for three weeks, I'm finally able to post to the forum ...and not a minute too soon. I'm trying to build a new system from scratch and am about to drive myself (not to mention the wife) crazy!

First, I'd like to thank DMantis. I emailed him privately since I couldn't get into the forum and he was kind enough to opine on the subject.

I've got the bug and am going to be putting together a HT system based on the LSi line. For now, I'm going 5.1, but want the capability to go 7.1 someday. Here's what I know so far, LSi 15's up front, an LSiC, LSiFX in the back, and an SVS sub. I need some opinions on a receiver or pre/pro/amp. Unless I get some other ideas from all of you, I've narrowed my search down to the B&K AVR 507 or the Outlaw combo of 950/7100. If you come down on the side of the Outlaw, I'd like your opinion on if the 7100 would be enough, or should I get the 770 monster? While I'm building this for HT, listening to two channel stereo is important to me.

I'm interested in any and all opinions and recommendations, but keep in mind, the B&K is at the upper end of my budget.

Thanks for chiming in on the subject. Also, thanks for such a great forum, it's amazing how much I've learned just from browsing these posts the last few weeks.

VR3

Adcom

AMC

NAD

Look at them three, they are great amps at killer prices.

I have experience with only adcom. I own 3 of their amps. All over 10 years old (second owner, only had them a little less than a year).

The Adcom GFA-535II, 545II, 555II will man handle the LSi's. Probally not the 535, unless it was LSi7. But the 545 (packing 100 watts into 8 ohms, and I think 125-150 watts into 4 ohms) will handle the LSi9 and 15. The 555 will handle any of the LSi line. The 555 has been paired with the old SDA SRS 1.2TL before. That should be enough right there.

I have had experience with B&K, not alot...

but what? a 900 dollar amp that only has 125 watts? I just don't understand.

Outlaw has been seen to be a big bang for the buck. FrankZ and other members (HBomb I believe) own some of their stuff and probally will tune in later.

You said open to suggestion, well I did my suggesting! lol!

polkatese

Todd,
Have you listen to these two? I would venture that listening to the outlaw would be a bit of challenge, unless you know an owner in the area. I really can't say much about Outlaw, but as Sid pointed out, FrankZ is very happy with his outlaw 7100, driving almost carbon copy of your LSis plan setup. And for $1598 for the combo 950/7100, I think that is one hell of a combo price.

Let's see, the price range of these two sets would be $1598 to $3400 (approximate street price of B&K 507), have you consider matching the Outlaw 7100 with a different pre/pro? If your budget allows, there are plenty of very capable pre/pro in that price range. Let's say your budget is $3k, Outlaw 7100 is $900 (which has more than enough juice to drive your LSis), then you are looking at $2k spending on the Pre/pro. Lots of decent options in this price range...

the 950, I am not how it compares to 507, in terms of sonic quality and features, but I can vouch for 507 to be very detailed and laid back, and feature-wise, it's the swiss army knife of processor..

I will not get into separate vs. receiver, since I am assuming you have your preference already. But, given those options you narrowed down, you won't be dissapointed! lastly, audition them, I am sure Dan already told you that

ToddB

I was able to listen to the B&K last weekend...and that's why I'm considering it! I thought it had an awesome sound quality to it. No chance to audition the Outlaw except for their 30 day trial.

Quite honestly, I'm struggling with the whole separates over receiver thing. I was sold on going with the separate Outlaw...that is, until I heard the B&K.

Thanks for the suggestions...keep them coming!

goingganzo

adcom 7806 300wpc or 7607 125wpc 3k/1500
rotle 1066 or the adcom GTP-880 1500/2500

i have herd the ls on rotle pre pro the older 860 it was great.

polkatese

well Todd, if you have auditioned B&K and like how it sounds, then the combination that I would recommend would be:

B&K Reference 50 (street price of $2200 to $2700 NIB,authorized)
Outlaw 7100 (7 channels ready)

You get 7.1 for the future, and sonic quality that you like...

Have you auditioned Rotel gears? They are also highly desirable to run LSis.

Frank Z

I'mmmmm HHHHEEEEERRRREEEEEE!!

First things First!
Todd, Welcome to the Forum! It's your turn to buy the doughnuts!!:cool:

Outlaw 7100, damn fine amp! Good enough for you? Well it might be, or might not. How big is your HT? Mine is approx. 12x18 and the 7100 can drive my Lsi's just fine, and I can show you the blood stained Q-tips to prove it! Would I like a little more power, of course I would, but I don't need anymore than I've got right now. One of the great things about the 7100 is that each channel has its own heat sink so there's no need for an internal (or external) cooling fan, that translates into a quiter piece of equipment that runs pretty cool even at high loads. The amp will crank out 165wpc x 7 when driving a 4 ohm load. Outlaw customer service is tops, their return policy makes an in-home audition a piece of cake. Now if your room is really big, then the 770 may be better suited to your needs. Can't help you with the 950, I've never heard one, but I've read a lot of great reveiws.

B&K gear is great, not going to put it down, but it just wasn't my cup of tea. Anthem is the pre-amp of choice around the Z-man's domicile!:D Don't bother looking for it on my HT site, I haven't updated that yet. I don't know if you can swing the additional cost of the Anthem AVM-20, but you really owe it to yourself to audition one before plunking down your cash on anything else.

I know....more crap to consider...sorry! Feel free to ask as many questions here and at any other sites you frequent, until you have all the info you need to make an informed decision on what to audition/purchase.

Good luck with your stuff!

mantis

Your Welcome Todd and nice to see you made it in......

I believe I voiced my opnion there.When looking at the B&K and the Outlaw,look at the features as well.B&K is stacked and of a higher quality product.

Listen and you'll see my man.......the ball is in your court.

Dan

dorokusai

I have heard great things about both, I would go B&K. You can't lose with any of the options for these two. The B&K sells me on the future upgrade capability, so that is the edge for me. I honestly hope that 9.1 does not become a standard, because this hobby is allready too expensive.

ToddB

Thanks for all the suggestions...and I thought I had it narrowed down to two!:D

Here is an audiophile 101 question. How much influence does the amp have on the quality of the sound? I like the suggestion of pairing up the Ref 50 with the Outlaw, but will that be a different sound than the AVR 507 since the amp is different? I guess what I'm asking is, what gives various separates or receivers their tonal quality...is it the processor or the amp, or both?

Frank, thanks for the suggestion of the Anthem. A little more money but looks like a real winner. Way too many choices!

By the way, my room is 20x20x8.

Frank Z

In a perfect world the amp would do nothing to the sound except amplify it. Some folks claim to hear a huge difference between amps, while others don't. The preamp/receiver will more than likely make the biggest difference in the overall sound quality, at least I think so.

With a room as big as yours, go for more WPC.

Dr. Spec

Frank truly pounded that nail - in a perfect world the amp should add nothing to the input signal except, well, amplification (duh).

If you will be running all your speakers in a high passed application and you will have a powered sub in the mix, then I don't see the need for the bigger amp. The power requirements above 80 Hz are really rather low in the overall scheme of things.

The deep bass is what sucks all the current and power from the amplifier and you've got that covered with at least 500 watts-1000 watts continuous (depending on the model) from a digital BASH amp if you go SVS (which you mentioned in your first post).

I'd stick with the 7100 if you won't be running anything on full range.

Doc

bikezappa

I have a B&K Ref 10 and find the sound very nice for 2 channel. However, it is not very user friendly. You will not be able to use it until you read and reread the manual and maybe a call for help at B&K, who are very nice. I see no reason for the complicated set-up.

Just my $0.020

Tour2ma

Todd,

Ref 50 here and it is a wonderful AVP backed by a great company. I found the initial set up to be very friendly, and from there it's a matter of programming the remote, which is a tad tedious.

Polka is close on the price, I bought my 50 for a tad under $2200 through an authorized dealer out of Atlanta.

I tend to agree with those that minimize the amp's impact on the final sound, at least in the list generated so far. Differences? Yes. Night and day? No.

I'll offer one more for your consideration, Sunfire. Used Cinema Grands come through ebay for around $1000 fairly regularly. Into your 4 ohms that's a 5 x 400 wpc option. Becoming available now as folks move up to the new 2 ch models.