Small Musical Sub(s) for Maggie mmg's.....ideas???

pietro944

So,I'm building my 2-channel system separate from my 7ch system and I will be buying mmg's.

I have a small living room and I'm planning on adding a fast,musical sub to the mmg's.
It doesn't have to go that deep and $$$ is a factor.....say max of $350 for the sub.

Right now,I'm looking at 2 Def Tech Pro sub 60's for $280 shipped for both(I've had Def Tech before and I really like them.)

Next up the Sunfire SDS-10 for $350 shipped....This is a 10",dual driver design(I don't know how musical,but Sunfire makes good stuff.)

Speaker level connection,obviously......I don't like the Polk subs at this price point.

Any comments from Polkies,maggies or sub junkies?........2 small subs or 1?.....Musical taste:1.jazz vocals
2.traditional jazz
3.Alternative and classic rock
4.Classical.............No metal....No Rap........thanks,peter

falconcry72

pietro944 wrote: »

Speaker level connection,obviously......

Why is this obvious?

I wouldn't run the signal to my speakers through any sub in the world.

BTW, you should get this moved to the 2-channel section.

pietro944

falconcry72 wrote: »

Why is this obvious?

I wouldn't run the signal to my speakers through any sub in the world.

BTW, you should get this moved to the 2-channel section.

Jeezus h......I didn't realize I had inadvertently posted in the FS......mods,please delete and I'll repost in the correct thread,before someone's head explodes over an innocent mistake.

falconcry72

pietro944 wrote: »

...before someone's head explodes over an innocent mistake.

haha, I don't think anyone's head will explode; I just think you'll get better feedback over there. Just tryin' to help.

falconcry72

Oh and BTW, I've been thinking about your MMG/sub situation since you posted the question in the 20.1 thread, and here's what I'm thinkin':

For the price you'd have to pay to get a sub or subs that would do the MMG's justice, you might be better off adding that amount of money to your speaker budget and buying MG-12's or, preferably, 1.6's instead.

I've got a really cool Mirage BPS-150i sub. It's a dual 8", opposite firing, sealed box design. Very quick, very tight. Look it up.

I also have a pair of MG-12's.

I also have a pair of 1.6's.

None of the above are actively "for sale", but we could work something out if you're interested.

I'm in Northern VA, and the only one I'd ship would be the sub.


Let me know what you think.

Systems

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falconcry72

pepster wrote: »

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HEY! who let you out of your cage?!:razz:

pietro944

falconcry72 wrote: »

haha, I don't think anyone's head will explode; I just think you'll get better feedback over there. Just tryin' to help.

Sorry....I just felt stupid for posting in the wrong thread....same way when you wonder why no music,when you stepped on your power strip(duh!).

nclh7

Are you able to use the RCA input on an amp? Also, subs are everywhere now dirt cheap. Find what you really want and start looking to get it at the price you want. Audiogon, Craigslist, EBay,etc.

Personally, with my experience with subs in a two channel system, I like your thinking regarding two subs.

pietro944

nclh7 wrote: »

Are you able to use the RCA input on an amp? Also, subs are everywhere now dirt cheap. Find what you really want and start looking to get it at the price you want. Audiogon, Craigslist, EBay,etc.

Personally, with my experience with subs in a two channel system, I like your thinking regarding two subs.

For 2-channel,speaker level is the way to go.....are you suggesting line level from the pre/amp to the sub?...that won't work for 2-channel.i know they're are a lot of cheap subs,but subs to work with the mmg's is what I'm after.I'm intrigued by the 2 def techs for $280 and wondered if anyone tried this with 4 0hm speakers like magnepans.Subs for the maggies have to be fast and not boomy.I already have a ht sub for my 7 ch system.

falconcry72

pietro944 wrote: »

For 2-channel,speaker level is the way to go...

I still don't understand why you think this. Running speaker level makes sense if you're running passive subs off a separate amplifier, but if you're only using one 2-channel amp or a pair of mono blocks for your speakers, then running your subs at speaker level is either:

1) Taking precious power away from your speakers, who deserve it more, or

2) forcing the precious, gentle, delicate signal going to your speakers to be extruded through the gross, dirty, ugly crossovers in your subwoofer.

Direct path from pre to amp to speakers wins. No need to make unnecessary detours.


If you have to run subs, I'm suggesting you run line level from your preamp to the subs, and tune the subs' crossovers and level settings perfectly to fit your setup.

I'm not familiar with those def techs, but again, I think that money would be better spent moving up the Magnepan chain. It is extremely difficult, and expensive, to get subs to integrate well with Magnepans, so just get the largest Maggie you can afford.

I know from experience. I've been through several pairs of Maggies, several subs, and I am 2-channel type of guy. Check my sig. See any sub?


The Magnepan MMG is a unique speaker in that you get an uncommon amount of quality for the money. You would have to spend 3 times what the speakers cost to get decent subs that would integrate well with them, and at that point, you'd be much better off using that money to get larger Magnepans instead. Either get the MMG's and be happy, or get 1.6.s.

pietro944

falconcry72 wrote: »

I still don't understand why you think this. Running speaker level makes sense if you're running passive subs off a separate amplifier, but if you're only using one 2-channel amp or a pair of mono blocks for your speakers, then running your subs at speaker level is either:

1) Taking precious power away from your speakers, who deserve it more, or

2) forcing the precious, gentle, delicate signal going to your speakers to be extruded through the gross, dirty, ugly crossovers in your subwoofer.

Direct path from pre to amp to speakers wins. No need to make unnecessary detours.


If you have to run subs, I'm suggesting you run line level from your preamp to the subs, and tune the subs' crossovers and level settings perfectly to fit your setup.

I'm not familiar with those def techs, but again, I think that money would be better spent moving up the Magnepan chain. It is extremely difficult, and expensive, to get subs to integrate well with Magnepans, so just get the largest Maggie you can afford.

I know from experience. I've been through several pairs of Maggies, several subs, and I am 2-channel type of giuy. Check my sig. See any sub?


The Magnepan MMG is a unique speaker in that you get an uncommon amount of quality for the money. You would have to spend 3 times what the speakers cost to get decent subs that would integrate well with them, and at that point, you'd be much better off using that money to get larger Magnepans instead. Either get the MMG's and be happy, or get 1.6.s.

Now,I'm confused....Because I'm using Pure direct to my recv'r,as i want the seperate Dac to do the conversion,not the Dac in the recvr......If I don't use speaker level outputs,how does the sub get into the signal path?......see what I mean?

falconcry72

pietro944 wrote: »

Now,I'm confused....

Good. You should be. You have a lot to learn, and it's best to let it digest before making this impending speaker purchase.

I'm using Pure direct to my recv'r...

What receiver are you using? There are few receivers in the world that can drive any Magnepans (even the MMG's) to their full potential. They need real power.

...how does the sub get into the signal path?

From the line level pre-outs on your receiver, if it has them.

pietro944

falconcry72 wrote: »

Good. You should be. You have a lot to learn, and it's best to let it digest before making this impending speaker purchase.



What receiver are you using? There are few receivers in the world that can drive any Magnepans (even the MMG's) to their full potential. They need real power.



From the line level pre-outs on your receiver, if it has them.

The recvr will only be used as a pre-amp....I will use a separate 2-ch amp from the pre-out on the recvr.Ergo,I'm not using the dac or the amps of the recvr...,.just as a pre-amp.

falconcry72

pietro944 wrote: »

The recvr will only be used as a pre-amp....I will use a separate 2-ch amp from the pre-out on the recvr.Ergo,I'm not using the dac or the amps of the recvr...,.just as a pre-amp.

I think you're still confused.

Whether you're using an external amp or not has nothing to do with the DAC's in the receiver.

rooftop59

Ok back on topic, although I have never owned maggies, I have owned the mirage mentioned above and its a great sub, fast tight flat and deep and therefore very musical. A good option but you'll have to be patient to find one.

jhw59

monoprice is selling subs-might be an excellent QPR is you're not that picky.

zingo

I've always liked SVS, and they pop up routinely used which is nice.

pietro944

rooftop59 wrote: »

Ok back on topic, although I have never owned maggies, I have owned the mirage mentioned above and its a great sub, fast tight flat and deep and therefore very musical. A good option but you'll have to be patient to find one.

I've always liked mirage,they are a musical sub.....Falconcry is right,though,If I get up to around $400 for a sub,i might as well save up for the maggie 12's.

The problem here is space and money.I already have M70's,an Lsic,a sub and 3 rears for home theater.
In order to do the mmg's,I will widen out the 70's and place the mmg's inside,where they will be about 6 feet from my listening position......Larger maggies,like the 12's or 1.6 are gonna be overwhelming in my living room.
Lucky for me,though(lol),I really don't have any visitors.....just me and all my stereo and computer rig.

More and more,lately,Ht and movies has become secondary to me.I find myself listening to music,mostly.i like the polk 70's,but maggies have always been a dream for me and i'm trying my best to get them.

Timothy Smith

If you want a fast and musical sub to match with your Magneplanars try something like a HSU STF-2 or even better a STF-3 or VTF versions of either.

A few years back I bought a STF-2 for (I think I remember correctly) $199. It matched up great with my MMG's and any other speakers I have tried it with.

Not big or powerfull enough to rip the carpet off the floor but that's not what I am looking for for 2-channel music.

I also have a couple different Polk subs that are probably better for HT applications.

pietro944

Timothy Smith wrote: »

If you want a fast and musical sub to match with your Magneplanars try something like a HSU STF-2 or even better a STF-3 or VTF versions of either.

A few years back I bought a STF-2 for (I think I remember correctly) $199. It matched up great with my MMG's and any other speakers I have tried it with.

Not big or powerfull enough to rip the carpet off the floor but that's not what I am looking for for 2-channel music.

I also have a couple different Polk subs that are probably better for HT applications.

Thanks....this is exactly the advise,I have been looking for.What do you think of 2 small subs with the mmg's?...better balance?.....more crossover options?.....what crossover setting did you use with the hsu?

rooftop59

I also recommend the hsu subs. I would say that my vtf-3 is very tight and controlled with a flat frequency response and therefore very musical. Though not quite as textured as my aci force, I think that you could not go wrong with one of the small HSU subs fwiw.

jawhog

pick up a used Martin Logan Dynamo. (before the current series which seems cheaper, although I haven't actually heard one). Should be able to find one for $300. Very musical and plays deep and is small. Comes with every connection possible including stereo preamp in and outs as well as line level. Then you can try whatever setup you like and decide for yourself which sounds better.

rooftop59

I also owned a Mirage omni prestige s-10 (great music and ht sub for a smaller room), and here is an older energy version (almost the exact same) for $200 shipped from newegg if you use code EMCJKJB98 (you have to be an email subscriber but you can sign up right now and use the code).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882269026

By far the best sub for a 2 channel rig that you can get NEW for the money right now.

mshan242700

If you can't afford genuine Hsu, could look at hsu designed subs at Parts Express also.

pietro944

jawhog wrote: »

pick up a used Martin Logan Dynamo. (before the current series which seems cheaper, although I haven't actually heard one). Should be able to find one for $300. Very musical and plays deep and is small. Comes with every connection possible including stereo preamp in and outs as well as line level. Then you can try whatever setup you like and decide for yourself which sounds better.

Good stuff,jawhog....thanks

pietro944

rooftop59 wrote: »

I also owned a Mirage omni prestige s-10 (great music and ht sub for a smaller room), and here is an older energy version (almost the exact same) for $200 shipped from newegg if you use code EMCJKJB98 (you have to be an email subscriber but you can sign up right now and use the code).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882269026

By far the best sub for a 2 channel rig that you can get NEW for the money right now.

I saw that and I am a subscriber...thankx

falconcry72

pietro944 wrote: »

I've always liked mirage,they are a musical sub.....Falconcry is right,though,If I get up to around $400 for a sub,i might as well save up for the maggie 12's.

The problem here is space and money.I already have M70's,an Lsic,a sub and 3 rears for home theater.
In order to do the mmg's,I will widen out the 70's and place the mmg's inside,where they will be about 6 feet from my listening position......Larger maggies,like the 12's or 1.6 are gonna be overwhelming in my living room.
Lucky for me,though(lol),I really don't have any visitors.....just me and all my stereo and computer rig.

More and more,lately,Ht and movies has become secondary to me.I find myself listening to music,mostly.i like the polk 70's,but maggies have always been a dream for me and i'm trying my best to get them.

Well if you don't have space for larger Maggies, then that's a horse of a different color. Get the MMG's, and add a sub if you must, but just know that it'll sound better to have no sub than it will to have a crappy sub.

The Maggies won't sound great inside of your 70's, though. They need room to breath. If you're mainly listening to music, then get rid of the 70's, add that money to your speaker budget, and get the 1.6's and use them as fronts in the HT and mains in your 2-channel setup.

You never said what kind of amp you're going to use for these.

In case you missed it in my earlier post, I said that I could sell you a Mirage BPS-150i, a pair of Maggie MG-12's, or a pair of Maggie 1.6's. I won't ship the speakers, but I'll ship the sub. PM for details if you're interested.

All of this stuff, along with a bunch of other crap, is going to be put for sale in the next week.


Cheers,

Ben

pietro944

falconcry72 wrote: »

Well if you don't have space for larger Maggies, then that's a horse of a different color. Get the MMG's, and add a sub if you must, but just know that it'll sound better to have no sub than it will to have a crappy sub.

The Maggies won't sound great inside of your 70's, though. They need room to breath. If you're mainly listening to music, then get rid of the 70's, add that money to your speaker budget, and get the 1.6's and use them as fronts in the HT and mains in your 2-channel setup.

You never said what kind of amp you're going to use for these.

In case you missed it in my earlier post, I said that I could sell you a Mirage BPS-150i, a pair of Maggie MG-12's, or a pair of Maggie 1.6's. I won't ship the speakers, but I'll ship the sub. PM for details if you're interested.

All of this stuff, along with a bunch of other crap, is going to be put for sale in the next week.


Cheers,

Ben

Thanks for your input,ben........By putting the mmg's "inside" of the 70's,I mean that I will widen the 70's to 10 ft apart and put the mmg's 6ft apart.....4 ft from the rear wall and 6-7 ft from my listening position.Why don't you think this will work.......in a small room,which the mmg's are noted for,this set-up may not be perfect,but eminately,manageable......I've discussed this on a maggie messageboard and the mmg owners think this wsill be fine with a little tweaking after hearing them.

Also,I have no intention of getting a "crappy" sub....I never do crappy,I only do value,without expensive hype.I do tons of research and listening before I buy.That's not going to change.I've got the Dac,the Tube buffer,the Tube pre-amp and the amplifier I needed for the maggies and all I need is the sub.

Regarding your offer....I didn't mention this prior,but since it explains why I'm resticted in my options:I'm 61,disabled and don't have a car or access to anyone with a vehicle.Therefore,I can't sell my 70's and can't make purchases of equipment that can't be shipped.

Mostly,I half to shy away from used,because of the shipping charges from private buyers.Magnepan has a 60 return on the maggies and a 1 year upgrade policy.After getting the mmg's,if I can make it work in my space,I could upgrade to the 12's at Natural Sound in Framingham,Ma......That's my plan and I can't make any mistakes...so far,so good....peter

falconcry72

pietro944 wrote: »

Thanks for your input,ben........By putting the mmg's "inside" of the 70's,I mean that I will widen the 70's to 10 ft apart and put the mmg's 6ft apart.....4 ft from the rear wall and 6-7 ft from my listening position.Why don't you think this will work.......in a small room,which the mmg's are noted for,this set-up may not be perfect,but eminately,manageable......I've discussed this on a maggie messageboard and the mmg owners think this wsill be fine with a little tweaking after hearing them.

Also,I have no intention of getting a "crappy" sub....I never do crappy,I only do value,without expensive hype.I do tons of research and listening before I buy.That's not going to change.I've got the Dac,the Tube buffer,the Tube pre-amp and the amplifier I needed for the maggies and all I need is the sub.

Regarding your offer....I didn't mention this prior,but since it explains why I'm resticted in my options:I'm 61,disabled and don't have a car or access to anyone with a vehicle.Therefore,I can't sell my 70's and can't make purchases of equipment that can't be shipped.

Mostly,I half to shy away from used,because of the shipping charges from private buyers.Magnepan has a 60 return on the maggies and a 1 year upgrade policy.After getting the mmg's,if I can make it work in my space,I could upgrade to the 12's at Natural Sound in Framingham,Ma......That's my plan and I can't make any mistakes...so far,so good....peter

Hell yea, man; it sounds like you're on the right path. :cool:

I thought the Maggies wouldn't sound good "inside" the Monitors because I was envisioning them being litterally just inside and touching the Monitors, given what I thought to be more of a space restraint than actually exists. As long as there are a couple of feet between the Monitors and the Maggies it should sound great. :cheesygrin:

Don't worry about not wanting my Maggies... I wouldn't ship them anyway. What I would ship would be the Mirage BPS-150i, because I have a great box for it. You said you liked the Mirage sub design. I used this sub very successfully with the MG-12's when they were my main 2-channel speaker, so I'm sure it would do great with the MMG's. I'm not going to sell you on it; look it up; see if you're interested. If you want to try it out, I'll ship it to you for the cost of shipping. If you like it, you then pay me the cost of the sub, if you don't like it, you pay to ship it back.

pietro944

falconcry72 wrote: »

Hell yea, man; it sounds like you're on the right path. :cool:

I thought the Maggies wouldn't sound good "inside" the Monitors because I was envisioning them being litterally just inside and touching the Monitors, given what I thought to be more of a space restraint than actually exists. As long as there are a couple of feet between the Monitors and the Maggies it should sound great. :cheesygrin:

Don't worry about not wanting my Maggies... I wouldn't ship them anyway. What I would ship would be the Mirage BPS-150i, because I have a great box for it. You said you liked the Mirage sub design. I used this sub very successfully with the MG-12's when they were my main 2-channel speaker, so I'm sure it would do great with the MMG's. I'm not going to sell you on it; look it up; see if you're interested. If you want to try it out, I'll ship it to you for the cost of shipping. If you like it, you then pay me the cost of the sub, if you don't like it, you pay to ship it back.

Sounds interesting,ben......will add the mirage to my research.....can't do anything until I get my check on 11/3(yippee!.....3.6% increase).....will keep in touch....peter