MIT Shotgun S3's in the house....

13

Comments

  • Drenis
    Drenis Posts: 2,871
    edited October 2011
    While I've committed to purchasing better speaker cable and IC's... I'm curious about the opinions surrounding this article I found on the web. Currently I run 10' runs of 12awg monoprice speaker cable in my setup now. I want to hear a MIT setup compared to what I currently have just to spit at this but why are there such negative articles surrounding this topic. Discuss?

    http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited October 2011
    Roger Russell is a poor source of information, that article has been around forever and lots of the idea's and opinions are based on research from the 80's.

    Also, the best way to become hated on this forum (atleast disliked) is to start a cable discussion. I know your motives probably are innocent, but cables is a HOT spot like no other and usually gets nasty very, vert fast.

    If you are truly interested, there are hundreds and hundreds of cable threads and this link and discussion is probably covered in 50% of those old threads.

    H9

    P.s. Also I really don't want this thread to get trashed so I'd suggest if you are going to persue this discussion on your own, rather than reading the archives, then please start another thread. This will go nowhere but down.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited October 2011
    Drenis wrote: »
    While I've committed to purchasing better speaker cable and IC's... I'm curious about the opinions surrounding this article I found on the web. Currently I run 10' runs of 12awg monoprice speaker cable in my setup now. I want to hear a MIT setup compared to what I currently have just to spit at this but why are there such negative articles surrounding this topic. Discuss?

    http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

    Dude, this has been beaten to death a million times here. Search the forum and you'll find all the cable debates you could ever hope for.

    It can be a touchy subject for some people, and we should keep it out of H9's congratulatory thread.
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited October 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Roger Russell is a poor source of information, that article has been around forever and lots of the idea's and opinions are based on research from the 80's.

    Also, the best way to become hated on this forum (atleast disliked) is to start a cable discussion. I know your motives probably are innocent, but cables is a HOT spot like no other and usually gets nasty very, vert fast.

    If you are truly interested, there are hundreds and hundreds of cable threads and this link and discussion is probably covered in 50% of those old threads.

    H9

    P.s. Also I really don't want this thread to get trashed so I'd suggest if you are going to persue this discussion on your own, rather than reading the archives, then please start another thread. This will go nowhere but down.

    yea, what he said.:biggrin:
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • Drenis
    Drenis Posts: 2,871
    edited October 2011
    *sigh*

    I give up!
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited October 2011
    Denris, Roger Russel is a hypocrite, he offers high quality wire in his custom(awful sounding) loudspeakers.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited October 2011
    Face wrote: »
    Denris, Roger Russel is a hypocrite, he offers high quality wire in his custom(awful sounding) loudspeakers.

    pwned.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited October 2011
    Drenis wrote: »
    *sigh*

    I give up!

    What, why are you giving up? I suggested you look in the archives in relation to that specific article. It's has been debated ad nauseum for the past 5 years or more. Also cable discussions get way out of hand and I don't want my thread trashed. It was honest, sincere, friendly advice. I wasn't trying to be negative. You are new here and I'm just trying to help you avoid the pitfalls.

    Cables are a very personal thing, you aren't going to know for sure if you can hear a difference by reading articles on the web. You can take the overwhelming advice here that MIT"s are awesome, great, the best, but you really need to evaluate and experience it on your own, in your rig, in your room, with your gear and listening habits and musical preferences. I was a skeptic a long time ago and I can tell you I was dead wrong.............DEAD wrong.

    The other personal thing about cables is where your dollar threshold is. Some are willing and able to spend large amount of money on top performing cables. I believe the cost is worth it as everything matters in this hobby. As much as I believe and know the $$$ is worth it, I still had/have a hard time spending it on cables. My recent purchase reaffirms that the money is well spent on MIT cables. Would I be willing to spend that much on another brand???? Not sure at this point.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited October 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    ...I suggested you look in the archives in relation to that specific article. It's has been debated ad nauseum for the past 5 years or more.... H9

    I think the above is the most important part. This is true of many, many topics here, especially cables, and yet I see new threads get started everyday unnecessarily.

    Browse through the last few years of cable debate threads... focus on ones that are over 20 pages long, and you'll come to understand why the current feeling on the forum regarding that subject is what it is.
    It was honest, sincere, friendly advice. I wasn't trying to be negative. You are new here and I'm just trying to help you avoid the pitfalls.

    Truth. Same goes for me and my post.:smile:
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,243
    edited October 2011
    Here is my only gripe about MIT cables and that is it's real hard to do much if any cable managment behind the rig because of the network box's, you are limited to what and how you lay them out..

    Will that keep me from wanting/having them?? Nope!! not a chance..
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited October 2011
    falconcry72 wrote: »
    Larry, you gonna sell me your S3 IC's or what?:question::biggrin:

    Well???
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,243
    edited October 2011
    My cables are not going anywhere soon.. I have other projects in the works right now before I pull the trigger on the S1's as a matter of fact I kept my S3 speaker cables as I didn't see or needed to part with them, and I know had I let them go I would kick my self in the nuts later on. I have been thinking about hooking them up to my AI-1 Dreadnaught !!!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited October 2011
    TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »
    Here is my only gripe about MIT cables and that is it's real hard to do much if any cable managment behind the rig because of the network box's, you are limited to what and how you lay them out..

    Will that keep me from wanting/having them?? Nope!! not a chance..

    Cable management is a real issue. I've managed, but I really had to spend sometime arranging so as not to put undue stress on connectors on all ends. The amp isn't a problem because they have be upgraded to Cardas. The Vampire connectors on the SDA's on the plastic terminal cup can be stressed to the point of breaking if not careful.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited October 2011
    TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »
    ...I kept my S3 speaker cables as I didn't see or needed to part with them, and I know had I let them go I would kick my self in the nuts later on. ...

    hey man, nothin' wrong with a pair of sleeper shotguns in the closet...:biggrin:
    ...I have been thinking about hooking them up to my AI-1 Dreadnaught !!!

    DO IT!!!!:cool:
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited October 2011
    Drenis wrote: »
    While I've committed to purchasing better speaker cable and IC's... I'm curious about the opinions surrounding this article I found on the web. Currently I run 10' runs of 12awg monoprice speaker cable in my setup now. I want to hear a MIT setup compared to what I currently have just to spit at this but why are there such negative articles surrounding this topic. Discuss?

    http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm


    Drenis: You have PM. Suggest you get on the list for the MIT cable demo if able to.... That should answer any questions you have about if they are worth the cost for you
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,243
    edited October 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Cable management is a real issue. I've managed, but I really had to spend sometime arranging so as not to put undue stress on connectors on all ends. The amp isn't a problem because they have be upgraded to Cardas. The Vampire connectors on the SDA's on the plastic terminal cup can be stressed to the point of breaking if not careful.

    H9

    Thats why I put a piece of 1/4" thick delrin on the back side of my binding post cups..
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited October 2011
    TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »
    Here is my only gripe about MIT cables and that is it's real hard to do much if any cable managment behind the rig because of the network box's, you are limited to what and how you lay them out..

    This is a very valid point. I have 3 sets of S1.3 XLR ICs (2 into the pre, and 1 out to the amps), and due to the component placement there are 4 network boxes right behind the pre-amp. If I push the rack to close to the wall the pre gets pushed out the front. :eek:

    However, my biggest concern is the strain placed on the connection from the boxes hanging below. I know others have said they have been using them for years with no issues, but it still concerns me. So, I have 'borrowed' some velcro cable management ties from our network lab, and used them for strain relief.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited October 2011
    I post this for Drenis, but it's a great read. Very well written, easy to understand and probably about as unbiased and truthful as you're going to get.

    http://www.normanaudio.com/reviews/123052DAGOGO%20Review_%20MIT%20AVt%20cables%20&%20Z-Stabilizer%20III.pdf

    I agree and my thoughts parallel a lot of what is said here, specifically about MIT cables and moving up the line.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • halo71
    halo71 Posts: 4,603
    edited October 2011
    Kinda unrelated to this thread I guess, but I'd still like to know whats inside those boxes on my MIT Terminator 6's.
    --Gary--
    Onkyo Integra M504, Bottlehead Foreplay III, Denon SACD, Thiel CS2.3, NHT VT-2, VT-3 and Evolution T6, Infinity RSIIIa, SDA1C and a few dozen other speakers around the house I change in and out.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited October 2011
    And another couple reviews. Again these reviewers are dead on in their descriptions.

    http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/mit_cables.htm

    http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/mit2/shotgun.html

    Microdynamics and low level detail is simply incredible.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Drenis
    Drenis Posts: 2,871
    edited October 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    I post this for Drenis, but it's a great read. Very well written, easy to understand and probably about as unbiased and truthful as you're going to get.

    http://www.normanaudio.com/reviews/123052DAGOGO%20Review_%20MIT%20AVt%20cables%20&%20Z-Stabilizer%20III.pdf

    I agree and my thoughts parallel a lot of what is said here, specifically about MIT cables and moving up the line.

    H9

    Thanks for all the links. Great reads.
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited October 2011
    Got my 8ft, non-biwire S3's today... new from Joe...

    Wow.

    That is all for now.:cheesygrin:

    I am super anxious to get the matching IC's now... (ahHEM, Larry, cough cough:rolleyes: you know you need the S1's, might as well night the bullet sooner than later...):smile:
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited October 2011
    I also just scored some Shotgun S3 speaker cables to match my balanced interconnects. Definately excited about listening to the differences.:cheesygrin: Will let you guys know how they sound after they arrive.

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited October 2011
    falconcry72 wrote: »
    Got my 8ft, non-biwire S3's today... new from Joe...

    Wow.

    That is all for now.:cheesygrin:

    I am super anxious to get the matching IC's now... (ahHEM, Larry, cough cough:rolleyes: you know you need the S1's, might as well night the bullet sooner than later...):smile:

    So?

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,243
    edited October 2011
    I find it funny how things become a fad for a short time around here..

    Crossover upgrades,
    Rings,
    Mortite,
    Armaflex,
    Crossover boards,
    Inductors,
    Gear (SL2000)
    Brand of tubes!!
    Brand of cables!!

    I freaking love it!! We are all a bunch of tweekers..
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited October 2011
    Hey, if it's good sound it's good sound.:cool:

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited October 2011
    None of the above is a fad or for a short time. MIT has been the brand most recommended here for a long time unless you are on a budget then Signal Cable.

    The RD0's have been standard practice since about 2002 as well as tweaking X-overs.

    Yes, the inductors talk now that more have tried it and been successful is gaining more popularity

    Your rings which are awesome are a farily new tweak, but I'd hardly call them a fad.

    Tubes have always ruled and there are so many combo's available I'm not sure how you can say we recommend a particular brand.

    We are a bunch of tweakers, but then we always have been............so that's not a fad. The Lava Lamp was a fad. :mrgreen:
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,243
    edited October 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    None of the above is a fad or for a short time. MIT has been the brand most recommended here for a long time unless you are on a budget then Signal Cable.

    The RD0's have been standard practice since about 2002 as well as tweaking X-overs.

    Yes, the inductors talk now that more have tried it and been successful is gaining more popularity

    Your rings which are awesome are a farily new tweak, but I'd hardly call them a fad.

    Tubes have always ruled and there are so many combo's available I'm not sure how you can say we recommend a particular brand.

    We are a bunch of tweakers, but then we always have been............so that's not a fad. The Lava Lamp was a fad. :mrgreen:

    OK fad is for lack of better word but you know what I mean.. Maybe flavor of the month??
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited October 2011
    Flavor of the month has an even more negative conotation. How about

    TREND.........the trend has been to improve older speakers by refreshing x-overs and using newer inductors as well as rings, Aramaflex and purchasing a newer redesigned tweeter. As well as people realizing tubes rule and MIT cables make a huge difference if one is attuned to perseaving those differences.

    :cheesygrin::biggrin::wink::cool:
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,068
    edited October 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Flavor of the month has an even more negative conotation. How about

    TREND.........the trend has been to improve older speakers by refreshing x-overs and using newer inductors as well as rings, Aramaflex and purchasing a newer redesigned tweeter. As well as people realizing tubes rule and MIT cables make a huge difference if one is attuned to perseaving those differences.

    :cheesygrin::biggrin::wink::cool:



    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience.--Nelson Pass :biggrin:

    Tubes can be a nice addition for one's listening pleasure but are not everyone's cup of tea. MIT makes a great cable along w/ countless other companies & they all can lay claim that they make a hugh difference. It's up to the individual to decide or not if they can appreciate any system changes...whether it be tubes, cables, amps, speakers, etc. :cool:
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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