Have you moved on from SDA's?

heiney9

TennMan wrote: »

Thanks h9 for the info. I didn't realize Magnepan speakers had a 3D effect.

They absoultely can, but in my experience you have to be in the sweet spot and it is a small sweet spot. It is slightly different from SDA's, but it is similar enough. I don't think the Maggies do quite as well with live music and the cues in the venue like the SDA's do. I was listening to a live Dvd the other day, in regular 2 channel mode, and I heard some people talking/laughing during one of the acoustic songs. I swear they were in my room next to me and I wanted to tell them to shut-up. You won't get that kind of realism with a well recorded live recording on Maggies.

Both speakers have an amazing ability to completely disappear into the room. Actually the perfect speaker to me would combine many of the attributes of the Maggies with the attributes of the SDA's. I think the Carver Amazings that I have heard come close to combining some of the elements from both speakers, but I just don't have the real estate to set those behemoth's up properly.

I have yet to hear a better speaker that play's live music as well. I'm talking well recorded 2 channel live music.

H9

Toolfan66

I have been keeping my eye out for a set of Maggies for some time now as I do see them being my next speaker buy..

heiney9

The Maggies I have heard have been modified. The stock stands leave a lot to be desired. Doug uses MYE stands for his and Ricardo made some beautiful stand's based on a design by Peter Gunn (IIRC) he also did some serious x-over upgrades. These mods take the Maggies to a different level. So grabbing a pair of MMG's and leaving them stock won;t give you the same results.

Doug's 1.6's sounded really good, but the MYE stands really help to get the most from them.

H9

Toolfan66

When do I ever leave anything stock since joining this place??? LOL!!!

heiney9

TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »

When do I ever leave anything stock since joining this place??? LOL!!!

HA...HA...never, the the post was more general for others that read it.

H9

heiney9

My friend Aaron also has a pair of MMG's that are heavily modded in the x-over and frames/supports, etc. Made a HUGE improvement, simply huge.

H9

NotaSuv

Moved on a long time ago, had the 2.3tl's for a whole 4 months and flipped them for a very nice profit..........really couldnt see putting some much $$$$ into them when I could just purchase a pair of speakers that sounded great and didnt need a whole bunch of modding and $$$$$ to do it............but then again different strokes for different folks.....................

audiocr381ve

NotaSuv wrote: »

Moved on a long time ago, had the 2.3tl's for a whole 4 months and flipped them for a very nice profit..........really couldnt see putting some much $$$$ into them when I could just purchase a pair of speakers that sounded great and didnt need a whole bunch of modding and $$$$$ to do it............but then again different strokes for different folks.....................

What were they replaced with?

nooshinjohn

heiney9 wrote: »

My friend Aaron also has a pair of MMG's that are heavily modded in the x-over and frames/supports, etc. Made a HUGE improvement, simply huge.

H9

i would be interested in knowing what he did to them. There is not much in the crossover on these speakers, so it should be a straight-forward kind of upgrade.

audiocr381ve

heiney9 wrote: »

Maggies do an amazing job of realism, but in my experience with Maggies only do certain types of music excellent like simple Jazz, Vocals, Trio's, Classical, Acoustic but they don't tend to do very well with modern pop, hard rock, heavier music, classic rock, etc. Atleast to my ears. They do have even more realism than SDA's on well recorded vocal, acoustic and simple Jazz, but they don't do well enough with other types of music I listen to for me to own a pair as a main set of speakers.

They have a very small sweetspot, tiny, as in only one person can hear them at their best, while SDA's still sound good even out of the sweet spot. Not knocking Maggies at all because I've heard DKG999's as well as Ricardo's and I always walk away impressed with their speed and life-like sound, but in the end they are not a great speaker for all types of music, IMO, like the SDA's can be.

Maggie's also aren't very forgiving of your source or source material, so if you like types of music that generally are recorded more poorly, then Maggies aren't for you. SDA's can be like that too with poorer recorded and mastered music, but they tend to be more forgiving.

SCompRacer's Inner Sound EROS are excellent speakers with great 3D imaging, but damn that sweetspot is very, very small.

H9

This pretty much sums up my opinion of them. I heard the mini-maggies, 3.7's, and 20.1's a few days ago and they leave a LOT to be desired. They were all in treated rooms with some of the best electronics out there. I've also owned the MG12's and 1.7's as well.

Anyway, I want to try out a pair of omni-directional speakers that will allow anybody in the room to enjoy some "hi-end" sound. Been thinking a lot about Ohm Speakers lately.

heiney9

NotaSuv wrote: »

Moved on a long time ago, had the 2.3tl's for a whole 4 months and flipped them for a very nice profit..........really couldnt see putting some much $$$$ into them when I could just purchase a pair of speakers that sounded great and didnt need a whole bunch of modding and $$$$$ to do it............but then again different strokes for different folks.....................

I am curious how you know you found speakers that sound great compared to modded2.3tl's, when you never bothered to find out by modding them? There is a HUGE difference once some of the mods are done and they really aren't the same speaker. I understand your thought process for sure and even a willingness not to go through the process.

H9

heiney9

audiocr381ve wrote: »

Anyway, I want to try out a pair of omni-directional speakers that will allow anybody in the room to enjoy some "hi-end" sound. Been thinking a lot about Ohm Speakers lately.

The Ohm Walsh's aren't all they are cracked up to be. As a kid, growing up with a fascination is hi-fi, in the late 70's I always wanted a pair of the great Ohm Walsh's. They are unique to a point, but SDA's are much more well rounded and don't need the kind of mantainance. But, you do have to decide for yourself, so I suppose getting a pair and spending quality time with them is the only way to know for sure.

IMO, Mirage did it much more convincingly than Ohm did. The thing I dislike about omni-directional speakers it there is not a very solid center image, which I think is essential to anchoring the rest of the imaging of a speaker and laying out a convincing soundstage.

H9

TennMan

h9, I have been reading about the Carver Amazings that you referred to in a previous post. From what I read Amazing is a fitting name for them. Although I have no room or large enough budget for them it would be nice to have speakers like that. Maybe a pair of Maggies someday if I stumble across some.

I intend to get some SDAs. I have been watching out for a pair of SDAs near me at a reasonable price. I'm limited in the height of the speakers I can use to about 39". I'm torn between the 2bs and CRS+. I would think the 2b would be the most desirable but a lot of folks here seem to really like the CRS+ with mods. I would probably settle for either one. I would like to hear comments about the differences in them.

nspindel

The 2B's and the 1989 CRS+'s are practically the same speaker. Same tweeter, same drivers, same crossovers, same ability to TL. The main difference is in the size of the cabinet, the 2B being the larger floor standing version and the CRS+ being compact in height with the passive radiator in the back of the speaker. The passive is a bit smaller if I remember correctly. They are very very similar, so much so that I would recommend using only price, condition, size requirements, and location of seller as your criteria for buying one over the other. Get whichever you find the best deal on.

TennMan

nspindel wrote: »

The 2B's and the 1989 CRS+'s are practically the same speaker. Same tweeter, same drivers, same crossovers, same ability to TL. The main difference is in the size of the cabinet, the 2B being the larger floor standing version and the CRS+ being compact in height with the passive radiator in the back of the speaker. The passive is a bit smaller if I remember correctly. They are very very similar, so much so that I would recommend using only price, condition, size requirements, and location of seller as your criteria for buying one over the other. Get whichever you find the best deal on.

Thanks. That is pretty much what I thought from reading about them. I have never heard either one. One thing that concerns me about the CRS+ is if they would need to be farther from the rear wall than the 2bs since the PR is in the rear. Any ideas if they do and if so how far from the rear wall?

nspindel

I'll answer that by saying that the 2B's should also be a decent distance from the rear wall.

audiocr381ve

heiney9 wrote: »

The Ohm Walsh's aren't all they are cracked up to be. As a kid, growing up with a fascination is hi-fi, in the late 70's I always wanted a pair of the great Ohm Walsh's. They are unique to a point, but SDA's are much more well rounded and don't need the kind of mantainance. But, you do have to decide for yourself, so I suppose getting a pair and spending quality time with them is the only way to know for sure.

IMO, Mirage did it much more convincingly than Ohm did. The thing I dislike about omni-directional speakers it there is not a very solid center image, which I think is essential to anchoring the rest of the imaging of a speaker and laying out a convincing soundstage.

H9

Hmm, if that's the case then I'm thinking maybe something from their current line would suit me better.

Either way, I love my SDA's and can't wait until the rest of the mods are finished.

heiney9

Who's current line? Mirage or Walsh? Walsh still manufacturer's the "Walsh" speaker, several different sizes, IIRC. Mirage is a good company, but sort of bland since they have become part of a huge conglomerate. My brother had a pair of Mirage OM-7's, one of the few pairs of OM's that weren't self powered (the subwoofer). They were pretty nice, but nothing fantastic and certainly not like SDA's in presentation. One thing they did well was being able to hear better than most speakers as you walked around the room. Still for me the presentation leaned a bit towards artificial with no "lock" on a center image, which always made me wish for more.

Again, I'm not bashing them, but they are subtly different enough and not what I am used to.

http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/949/index.html

H9

polkfarmboy

Whats the best sounding sda's out there once mods are done ?

How much for the mods after you pick up a pair in good condition ?

I am curious about the sda but as you may know I am not known for my modification skills

audiocr381ve

heiney9 wrote: »

Who's current line? Mirage or Walsh? Walsh still manufacturer's the "Walsh" speaker, several different sizes, IIRC. Mirage is a good company, but sort of bland since they have become part of a huge conglomerate. My brother had a pair of Mirage OM-7's, one of the few pairs of OM's that weren't self powered (the subwoofer). They were pretty nice, but nothing fantastic and certainly not like SDA's in presentation. One thing they did well was being able to hear better than most speakers as you walked around the room. Still for me the presentation leaned a bit towards artificial with no "lock" on a center image, which always made me wish for more.

Again, I'm not bashing them, but they are subtly different enough and not what I am used to.

http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/949/index.html

H9

I was thinking the MicroWalsh Talls here: http://www.ohmspeakers.com/productline.cfm

They seem to be getting positive reviews. A bit pricey so I'd have to wait on them. They have a nice return policy too.

Tony M

audiocr381ve wrote: »

Hmmm, I'm very interested in hearing this type of speaker. Do the ESS Heil AMT 1A fit the bill? There is a pair for sale locally that I'm interested in. Also, I'm very curious to hear a pair of Ohm speakers. I'm wondering if anybody with SDA's has any experience with both and wouldn't mind chiming in.

ESS made BIg floor standing with the BIG bow-tie Heil air motion transformer on top and the y made bookshelf models with little Heils in them. I can only vouch for the BIG bow tie mechanism's out put. It was Bi-directional where-as the little one was not. If the ESS AMT-1A is the big floor model with the Bow-tie on top, Get em if they sound ok. The Heils sell for 350.00 each now!!

I owned a pr. of Ohm Walsh 2's that had a rare veneer on them and actually gave them as a gift to the man who gave me his SDA-SRS2's. The Walshes are very special also. Deep bass and a holographic soundfield that floats above and between the speakers. It's kind-of jaw dropping to describe it fairly. I valued the Walsh's dearly and thought it fitting to return them as an equal thank you jesture to Chris.

heiney9

The answers to your questions (and more) are all over CP, do a little reading. You really can't condense it to two broadly generic questions like you did. There are lots of other factors to also keep in mind.

For me the best SDA's are 1C's as I have explained atleast 20 times. I don't feel like typing it again, sorry.

H9

audiocr381ve

tony millard wrote: »

I owned a pr. of Ohm Walsh 2's that had a rare veneer on them and actually gave them as a gift to the man who gave me his SDA-SRS2's. The Walshes are very special also. Deep bass and a holographic soundfield that floats above and between the speakers. It's kind-of jaw dropping to describe it fairly. I valued the Walsh's dearly and thought it fitting to return them as an equal thank you jesture to Chris.

That's really cool. I'm wondering how the older stuff stacks up against the newer line.

heiney9

Nelson Pass helped develop the ESS Heil AMT back in the early 70's when he was first breaking into audio. He started working at ESS two weeks before Oskar Heil arrived. He also met his wife Jill at ESS, they are still together.

Sorry for the derail

H9

audiocr381ve

heiney9 wrote: »

Nelson Pass helped develop the ESS Heil AMT back in the early 70's when he was first breaking into audio. He started working at ESS two weeks before Oskar Heil arrived. He also met his wife Jill at ESS, they are still together.

Sorry for the derail

H9

Lol, that's interesting stuff!

Tony M

audiocr381ve wrote: »

That's really cool. I'm wondering how the older stuff stacks up against the newer line.

I believe Ohm Walsh Co is like ESS, in that they're family based speaker manufacturers. The Ohm cone and Heil transformers can't really be improved upon so the sound character should still be the same. The cabinet constuction and crossover components have surely improved things.

I was impressed by my set of Ohm's enought to wonder why Heiney 9 wasn't. There a L and a R and maybe his were reversed or the old speaker wires out of phase, I don't know. What I heard from my Ohm's was equal to the SDA-CRS's easily. And Ohm makes the high out put models also. I can only imagine... Ohm speakers are another speaker I'd love to own again if the price was affordable for me.Read the reviews!! I don't think there is a neg. out there.

NotaSuv

heiney9 wrote: »

I am curious how you know you found speakers that sound great compared to modded2.3tl's, when you never bothered to find out by modding them? There is a HUGE difference once some of the mods are done and they really aren't the same speaker. I understand your thought process for sure and even a willingness not to go through the process.

H9

I actually liked the sound from my M-1's much better but then again the 2.3's were not modded in any way........picked up the M-1's in like new shape for under $600......flipped them for 850 two years later....and yes I understand that with the extra $$$$$$ the SDA's become a whole different animal...and again this was sounded best to me and my tired old ears....have a pair of Mirage STS towers right now and am very happy with them for both HT and 2 channel listening as I have no room for a dedicated 2 channel system at this time...the bass they produce more than needed in my room so no need for a sub as well, and a nice small foot print..

NotaSuv

................double post..........

heiney9

I sold the original M1's and SDA's side by side back in the day at the hi-fi store I worked in. The M1 always impressed me, but then IMO, Mirage went down hill after the 1st and 2nd generation "M" series. Still preferred the SDA's back then, but I was enamoured with them back in the mid-80's, probably a little too much back then.

H9

Tony M

TennMan wrote: »

Thanks h9 for the info. I didn't realize Magnepan speakers had a 3D effect.

I've heard sound coming from the sides of my room from my maggies but only about 80* max. The SDA's on the other hand have produced sound that came from past my head.

And I have witnesses to attest to that phenomenon also with out haveing any inhancements either.:cheesygrin: