sda effect

sda2mike

was listening last night at a moderately healthy volume setting..along comes 'sheep' from 'animals' by pink floyd...normally, this cd is veiled and listless...the music always stayed stayed center stage...last night, the opening electric piano (i think) was playing directly right and left of my ears at my listening position, which is 10-11 feet out...ben upgraded my xovers' a year and a half ago...they must be continuing to evolve...it was a great listen!


mike

Toolfan66

Upgrade the inductor and you will be floored.. if you haven't already.. :-)

sda2mike

some say no to that upgrade...something about dropping the impedance way too low...i'm not sure...do you have a specific brand/model...would there be any other components involved? does it mount where the existing inductor lives?

thanks, larry
mike

CNWDI

To be specific, if the Solen 16mH inductors were judged to be the best upgrade option (best sound and lower price than other options), what's the preferred source/ordering method?

drumminman

The only issue with dropping the impedance is if you're amp becomes unstable. According to DK's post, IIRC the impedance on his 1.2TL's dropped to somewhere around 3.2 ohms.

When I installed mine I noticed that my Odyssey Stratos Plus became a little warmer after several hours of relatively high volume listening, but never hot. The manufacturer rates it as stable to 2 ohms. My 2.3TL's are 8 ohm speakers so I imagine the big Solen Inductors may have dropped the impedance to around 6 ohms, but I don't know how to measure that.

It's definitely a worthwhile upgrade. The inductors I and DK and TFLF used are the 16 mH 10awg from Solen. you can buy them direct from Solen, or do like I did. Wait till Parts Connexion has a 20% off sale and order from them. I saved something like $80 on the pair.

sda2mike

thanks drumminman! i went on the solen site..i see inductors for $5 with the specs you posted...i know i'm missing something there...is there a specific model? also, do you have any insight as to the mounting? i have 2b's (tl)

thanks
mike

F1nut

My 2.3TL's are 8 ohm speakers

Actually, they are 6 ohm nominal, so yours have most likely dropped to 3.2 ohm, the same is Ray's.

thejck

My amp is a Parasound HCA-3500 from the manual
Minimum Speaker Impedance Precautions
Although the HCA-3500 is capable of driving speakers with occasional impedance dips well below
2 W, it is primarily designed to drive loudspeakers with a 4 W or 8 W nominal impedance. This is because
sustained high power operation into loads of less than 4 W may cause overheating and subsequent thermal
shutdown.

you think that adding the new inductors to my 1.2 (modded to 1.2TL) would be a bad idea? What amps are you driving your speakers with Larry?

evhudsons

would an entry level pioneer like my 1020vsx be considered too dangerous for the inductor upgrade?

heiney9

evhudsons wrote: »

would an entry level pioneer like my 1020vsx be considered too dangerous for the inductor upgrade?

Too dangerous??? What does that mean?

An entry level AVR will not come close to driving a pair of SDA's to their potential, add an inductor that could lower the impedance, forget about it. Nothing dangerous, as the reciever will shut down and go into protect mode which it's designed to do. If however you drive the reciever into clipping but not enough to shut it down, you could possibly trip a poly switch in the SDA's (if so equipped) or blow a tweeter.

H9

H9

evhudsons

You answered correctly for me, that's what I meant as dangerous. I would never play it loud enough to do that though as the distortion level would be horrible.

After reading more and more, I think my goal next is to get rid of my avr, get one that has preouts, then get an external 2channel amp to drive the sda's. I have limited funds at any one time, so I have to do each change over time. What would you suggest as a good level amp to drive the sda like my crs+? I have read elsewhere too that more powerful amps can bring the sda's to life. I am more than curious to hear them driven by a powerful amp. Tripping the tweeter won't be an issue with my anti-distortion tolerating ears. So from what I understand, I should probably hold off the inductor upgrade until I get a setup to properly drive the system? Thanks for the fast answer by the way, exactly what I was looking for! This forum rocks.

evhudsons

Also I want to respond to the OP's first post. I have done the crossover upgrade, and have found that I still seem to have increasing SDA experience although I am past the break in period. Maybe it's just the source file or the changes I have made in my room but I still get moments of extreme awe that catch me and mesmerize me. It may be my imagination but maybe there are aspects of the crossover still burning in? I played my system day and night for a while but these extra increases seem to happen when I am listening at an elevated level for a while. Not too loud, but you certainly would not carry any conversation in the same room.

DarqueKnight

sda2mike wrote: »

...ben upgraded my xovers' a year and a half ago...they must be continuing to evolve...it was a great listen!

Careful and consistent listening causes your ears to evolve.

heiney9

evhudsons wrote: »

Also I want to respond to the OP's first post. I have done the crossover upgrade, and have found that I still seem to have increasing SDA experience although I am past the break in period. Maybe it's just the source file or the changes I have made in my room but I still get moments of extreme awe that catch me and mesmerize me. It may be my imagination but maybe there are aspects of the crossover still burning in? I played my system day and night for a while but these extra increases seem to happen when I am listening at an elevated level for a while. Not too loud, but you certainly would not carry any conversation in the same room.

Are you talking about varying levels of SDA for the exact same song? Or, varying levels of SDA at certain moments of many different songs as you go forward from the x-over upgrade? You may not realize the SDA presentation varies based on source material. Depending on how a song was recorded has a direct influence on how the SDA presentation is performed. Now, if you are talking the same exact song having varying degrees of SDA properties and you are well past break-in then I'd say it more of a "state of mind" thing.

H9

evhudsons

Your second line I would say is accurate. I realized afterwards that I have the same music and even movies recorded but by different sources and formats. For instance I have "discovered" flacc files and have been downloading those. I had to transcode some of the movies to different formats such as mkv to ts. It's new to me so I forget sometimes when I am streaming where the sources came from for the music and movies. I'm sure if I played the same song file over and over it would have the same effect. I did change out some of my living room features to help and realigned my speakers so I'm sure that added to the effect. I think too that listening and hearing changes based on my level of concentration and outside distractions. Wife, beer, snoring dogs can have good and bad influence on the SDA experience.

For my question of the amp, I wasn't asking for a brand X recommendation but more of what I should be looking for in an amp to properly drive my CRS+ prior to upgrading my inductors.

And DK, I love your quote! Certainly great signature quote or a book intro.

sda2mike

i'll pipe back in here...when i made the post, i was prompted by pink floyd's 'sheep'...the opening notes that got me were what sounded like a fender rhodes...the sda effect was profound! i do listen to this album at least half a dozen times a year...i've never heard it like that...this prompted me to get 3 pf releases that have been remastered...the sda effect has been notched up even more! animals in particular is now loud and clean, as it should be..

but i'm liking the idea of my xovers continuing to 'change'......another great sda cd is steely dan ' two against nature'

drumminman

sda2mike wrote: »

thanks drumminman! i went on the solen site..i see inductors for $5 with the specs you posted...i know i'm missing something there...is there a specific model? also, do you have any insight as to the mounting? i have 2b's (tl)

thanks
mike

Hi Mike,

The Solen inductors are here: http://www.solen.ca/pub/cms_nf_catalogue.php?pageNum_cms_catalogue=1&niveau1=1&niveau2=4&niveau3=24&origniveau=/pub/cms_nf_catalogue_niveau3.php?q=Jm5pdmVhdTE9MSZuaXZlYXUyPTQmc2VjdGlvbj0yJnNvdXNfc2VjdGlvbj00JmZ0PW5m&totalRows_cms_catalogue=40&niveau1=1&niveau2=4&niveau3=24&niveau4=

They're the 16 mH 10awg.

As for mounting them, I went a different route than DK as my 2.3TL's are a little smaller than1.2TL's. I mounted mine on the floor of the speaker. I don't have a digital camera but I described how I mounterd them here, the last half of the post: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?123728-Review-of-New-Solen-inductors-in-2.3TL-s&highlight=inductors

Fred

drumminman

Wife, beer, snoring dogs can have good and bad influence on the SDA experience.

+1 :cheesygrin:

drumminman

F1nut wrote: »

Actually, they are 6 ohm nominal, so yours have most likely dropped to 3.2 ohm, the same is Ray's.

Nominal impedance on the polk website is listed at 8 ohms. Or is this a case where it varied depending on date of manufacture?

OldmanSRS

I don't know what it is but somedays the SDA does not sound that great. Other days, I can listen again and it blows me away. I also find the SDA sounds better the longer the listening session. Must be a mental defect.

heiney9

drumminman wrote: »

Nominal impedance on the polk website is listed at 8 ohms. Or is this a case where it varied depending on date of manufacture?

It doesn't really matter 6 ohm 8 ohm nominal, they dip down at certain frequencies, etc. The difficulty lies on the negative side of an amplifier because of how the SDA's are connected via the interconnect. So that's usually the issue with amplifier sections having to work a little harder. It's not the raw number of the nominal impedance although that can be a factor in the earlier models because they were 4 ohm nominal and a bit more difficult to drive.

H9

F1nut

drumminman wrote: »

Nominal impedance on the polk website is listed at 8 ohms.

Yeah, that spec on the website is not quite right. The owner's manual states, "Compatible with 8 ohm outputs" and it's been long known that they are 6 ohm.

Or is this a case where it varied depending on date of manufacture?

No.

Joe08867

OldmanSRS, Have you upgraded the tweeters to the Rd-0194 or 198 in your speakers? That change made a world of difference.

OldmanSRS

No. I should do so.

heiney9

OldmanSRS wrote: »

No. I should do so.

It's a huge improvement and well worth the cost.

H9

OldmanSRS

I guess I know what the wifey can buy me for Christmas!

evhudsons

DarqueKnight wrote: »

Careful and consistent listening causes your ears to evolve.

The more I think about it DarqueKnight is right on with this comment. It's so obvious we overlook this. It probably does account for some of our moments of extended SDA or any other audio related "awe" moments. When I'm at a rock concert I'm just jamming out but I'm not careful or consistent. At home I am careful and consistent.

I'm learning a lot here so there are many advances for my ears in what I am listening to and what I should or shouldn't be hearing. I think it is analogous to knowing what is in your fine dish at a nice restaurant or if you are at my house. I cook pretty dang well but you will not appreciate fully until you know what is in the dish and how it got there and possibly why.