Anyone have Solar Panels installed on the Home?

Sherardp

Just inked a deal for Mitsubishi to come out in two weeks to install 30 Monocrystalline solar panels on my home. This will cut my bill to zero and even put money in my pocket since unused power gets sold back to the power company. Japanese Gov pays up $4000.00 to assist when buying these things so that helps out a tad bit. Looking forward to the setup. Anyone else here using panels of any sort? Any pro/cons?

exalted512

dont you have to replace batteries a lot with these? how expensive are the batteries? what do the solar panels look like?
-Cody

TECHNOKID

exalted512 wrote: »

dont you have to replace batteries a lot with these? how expensive are the batteries? what do the solar panels look like?
-Cody

That is my concern, longevity of the product and maintenance costs. Yet I find this technology outrageously highly priced and am not really sure the return value to be that positive?

exalted512

TECHNOKID wrote: »

That is my concern, longevity of the product and maintenance costs. Yet I find this technology outrageously highly priced and am not really sure the return value to be that positive?

my thoughts EXACTLY. Seems lot A LOT of money up front...they're not very aesthetically pleasing, and then the associated maintenance costs.
-Cody

Gadabout

I have looked into Solar panels. Austin, TX had a program a couple years back, that they assisted in the cost of the panels and install. My out of pocket cost would have been around $12k - $15k (if they ever decided to do it up here). Running the numbers I couldn't justify the initial and maintenance costs.

If I had more property, or if I was to buy a few acres and build another house, I would definitely consider wind turbine. Since it wouldn't be an off the grid system there would be no need for batteries and you can get decent one installed for about $11k. The kits go for less than $8k. (Skystream 3.7)(Those prices are before government rebates and whatever programs your state offers).

On my small lot I could only feasibly install GUS VAWT system. Later this year I'm going to install a couple anemometers and see how much wind there really is at the house.

Last I looked, California had some of the best state programs for installing personal alternative energy sources.

Let us know your impressions after they have your system installed.

Scott

Sherardp

I will definitely post back. Right now just getting everything else ironed out. Overall they don't look bad from the installs I've seen.

http://www.mitsubishielectric.com/bu/solar/installations/americas/i_americas_02.html

[Deleted User]

Gadabout wrote: »

California had some of the best state programs for installing personal alternative energy sources.

Let us know your impressions after they have your system installed.

Scott

Personal Alternative Energy Sources.
Not making fun of you or your post but if you hadn't qualified it, that just sounds California.:cool:

disneyjoe7

I assume a Solar Grid Tie system, one without batteries vs. a off Grid system which needs batteries.

Sherardp

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

I assume a Solar Grid Tie system, one without batteries vs. a off Grid system which needs batteries.

Correct. My system will not use any batteries in the setup.

newbie308

I went with the solar hot water system when I upgraded my boiler. Of course in PA it does nothing in the winter, but durring spring, summer, and early fall I use a lot less oil. This was only about $8k add on to the new boiler, and with the current oil prices, that will be paid for in 2.5 years!

TECHNOKID

Sherardp wrote: »

Correct. My system will not use any batteries in the setup.

How can solar panels be efficient without batteries?

disneyjoe7

Lets see if I can explain this system.

If you got a 5kw solar panel system, that is grid tied to your AC power from outside. The grid tie converter will (I think anyway) pull power from the solar panel, and push power to the outside AC system. When you need less then 5kw per hour, your meter will reverse so the power company will pay you back. When you need more the 5kw per hour, your meter will give you what you need to power up but you pay for it now.

In the end if you can give the AC power company more KW then you use they pay you, If nothing else you pay less.

schwarcw

Greetings!

We need more information. What was your capital investment? I believe you live in a moderate climate in the South of Japan. Do you use air conditioning? Heating? Do you use gas? How many in your family? (hot water use). What was the cost of your average electric or combined electric and gas bill? Without batteries are you still going to use electric at night? I'd like to run the numbers for kicks. Or, you can tell us your "pay back" period.

Don't get me wrong, if you believe in going green go for it. Not everyone may have the climate conditions, or finacial resources to embark down this path. It may not be practical or economical for everyone.

How about some pics?

Gadabout

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

Lets see if I can explain this system.

In the end if you can give the AC power company more KW then you use they pay you, If nothing else you pay less.

Just so folks know, if you ever do payback more electricity to the system more than you used, your payment is at wholesale prices, not the retail that you pay for power. That usually won't latter for most folks. Breaking even or paying a smaller power bill is what they were after. I'd actually prefer a bank system if that ever occurs instead of receiving a payment.

Scott

Gadabout

nap wrote: »

Personal Alternative Energy Sources.
Not making fun of you or your post but if you hadn't qualified it, that just sounds California.:cool:

Lol..... I was having a hard time wording it and didn't want to confuse the issue with the plans that are available for commercial properties.

and your right, it does sound very California :biggrin:

Scott

tonyb

I'm assuming these are attached to the roof, if so, how much more in homeowners insurance would this also cost ? Can't imagine what hail would do to these things here in the midwest. Also I would imagine your roof better be fairly new because the cost of removing these panels to replace a roof and then re-install has to be up there a bit.

TECHNOKID

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

Lets see if I can explain this system.

If you got a 5kw solar panel system, that is grid tied to your AC power from outside. The grid tie converter will (I think anyway) pull power from the solar panel, and push power to the outside AC system. When you need less then 5kw per hour, your meter will reverse so the power company will pay you back. When you need more the 5kw per hour, your meter will give you what you need to power up but you pay for it now.

In the end if you can give the AC power company more KW then you use they pay you, If nothing else you pay less.

Thing is you pay more for the power you use and get paid less for the power you give back thus the reason battery back-up is a must. You do not want to give your power for dirt cheap and then pay market price for your power, you'll never even break even that way but the power company makes more money out of you without the investment since you are the investor.

Sherardp

Price to sell power back here in Japan is around 42 yen per . Power use varies throughout the day here 23-36 yen during peak times (sort of weird how they do that). Disneyjoe explained just how the system works, in my case I'm going with a 6.5KW system. Japanese gov will offset the cost by 4K, and the city will subtract some additional costs as well. I use all Electric Appliances here to include water heater, so they discount the bill even more for doing so. Once the system goes in I will post pictures and explain the setup.

pearsall001

Since 1970 our elec bills have increased 6.7% annually & are on target to more than double within 5-7yrs (more like 5yr) & to keep increasing at an alarming rate. Solar is not only a agreat investment but owning a system greatly increases the value of your home & your tax assesement can not be raised because of the system. Adding a wind turbine is also a great way to go.

The Federal tax credit of 30% on the price of the system is a huge plus for homeowners. Business's can choose to receive a 30% tax grant on the price of the system...they receive a check from Uncle Sam within 60-90 days. They can also take advantage of the MACRS program (they can take a full 100% depreciation in one year if they choose. Another sweet deal.

Another big program is the SREC (solar renewable energy certificate). This varies state to state with NJ being the front runner. A system is based on your elec usage over the previous 12 months & is designed around that. You can't go overboard & expect to sell much back to the utility companies. A system is designed to "Zero" out your bill over the year.

When you produce more than you use then "net metering" comes into play. Kind of like a storage tank of elec, you simply draw from that when needed & it keeps replenishing itself.

If your roof is no older than 10-12 yrs old you're good to go. Adding panels on your roof increase the roof's life span by about 30yrs. There is virtually no maintenence & the better panels will withstand pretty much what ever mother nature throws at them. A good system will also have a computer tracking system for thr system owner. Here you can track the daily energy production panel by panel in real time or even see what they produced yesterday, last weel, last month...etc, etc.

A battery back-up system is pretty much for some one in a rural area that isn't connected to the grid. Also check out the lease programs that are available. Make sure you get to keep the SREC. Most business owners lease (8out of 10).

When you sit down & do the math it really is a great way to go.

exalted512

Sherardp wrote: »

I will definitely post back. Right now just getting everything else ironed out. Overall they don't look bad from the installs I've seen.

http://www.mitsubishielectric.com/bu/solar/installations/americas/i_americas_02.html

I'm not a fan of the way those look....at all.

When/if we move out to the country, I'd look into the turbine's though

Good luck...hopefully your energy bill goes down!
-Cody

tonyb

Out there in Japan, it maybe different, but here insurance companies vary greatly on how they view solar panels. Some give discounts on homeowners insurance for it, while some charge hundreds more and view them as a liability. One other thing to consider long term is that solar panels in general add value to your home, not a bad thing, but you'll also get a larger tax bill. They even sell seperate panel insurance too for those pesky typhoons,huricanes, tornadoes, things good old mother nature tends to throw at us every so often. Just something to think about when deciding the cost benefits.

Sherardp

tonyb wrote: »

Out there in Japan, it maybe different, but here insurance companies vary greatly on how they view solar panels. Some give discounts on homeowners insurance for it, while some charge hundreds more and view them as a liability. One other thing to consider long term is that solar panels in general add value to your home, not a bad thing, but you'll also get a larger tax bill. They even sell seperate panel insurance too for those pesky typhoons,huricanes, tornadoes, things good old mother nature tends to throw at us every so often. Just something to think about when deciding the cost benefits.

I think your right TonyB. Japan is a little different there as well. They will add value to the home. As for insurance Mitsubishi will cover the system for 20 yrs if there is an issue due to typhoon damage, earthquake, etc. Tax bill will remain the same though.

WilliamM2

pearsall001 wrote: »

If your roof is no older than 10-12 yrs old you're good to go. Adding panels on your roof increase the roof's life span by about 30yrs.

I would think it would extend the life of the shingles under the panels, but what about the rest of the roof? None of those in the pictures cover the entire section of roof, and it would be hard to just replace the shingles around them.

I think I'd put a new steel roof on first, then it would last longer than I will.

TECHNOKID

Price to sell power back here in Japan is around 42 yen per . Power use varies throughout the day here 23-36 yen during peak times (sort of weird how they do that). Disneyjoe explained just how the system works, in my case I'm going with a 6.5KW system. Japanese gov will offset the cost by 4K, and the city will subtract some additional costs as well. I use all Electric Appliances here to include water heater, so they discount the bill even more for doing so. Once the system goes in I will post pictures and explain the setup.

Sherardp wrote: »

Price to sell power back here in Japan is around 42 yen per . Power use varies throughout the day here 23-36 yen during peak times (sort of weird how they do that). Disneyjoe explained just how the system works, in my case I'm going with a 6.5KW system. Japanese gov will offset the cost by 4K, and the city will subtract some additional costs as well. I use all Electric Appliances here to include water heater, so they discount the bill even more for doing so. Once the system goes in I will post pictures and explain the setup.

Sherardp wrote: »

I think your right TonyB. Japan is a little different there as well. They will add value to the home. As for insurance Mitsubishi will cover the system for 20 yrs if there is an issue due to typhoon damage, earthquake, etc. Tax bill will remain the same though.

Wow! With all the advantages that Japan gives you for purchasing this technology, it now seems like it is a no-brainer. If you were to calculate your average hydro cost per year, how long would you say it would take you to repay your portion of the cost?

You see, my first observations were of course in regard to my own cost here in QC (which I believe are quite low compared to many areas in the world). My home is all electric including heating and was a monthly average expense of 150$ a month let's say 10 years ago. Yet, simply by using friendlier electricity devices such as programmable electronic thermostat, low energy consuming lights and by being aware of my spending, I brought my 2011 - 2012 (average calculated in August) down to 70$ monthly and the company also giving me some like 3 months free (overpaid from the previous year which I believe was some like 99$ monthly average). Yet, as long as I am grid dependant, I am convinced I hit bottom and there is nowhere else I could save unless I become self sufficient. Unfortunately, I cannot see our government being too generous on grants on such technology since our electricity company is a government corporation. However, it would be a dream come through to be grid independent not solely for the savings, but also for the challenge of accomplishing it. I will be very interested to see your pics of the project along with the results.

TECHNOKID

WilliamM2 wrote: »

I would think it would extend the life of the shingles under the panels, but what about the rest of the roof? None of those in the pictures cover the entire section of roof, and it would be hard to just replace the shingles around them.

I think I'd put a new steel roof on first, then it would last longer than I will.

I agree, I was thinking along the same line. No one would want to remove the panels to redo a roof (again, it maybe different in that regard in Japan when compared with Canada or the US???).

disneyjoe7

If those panels work as Solar Water pool panels then roof life is about the same under them IMHO. I had to pay someone to remove panels prior to roof removal, then paid someone to re-install panels after roof was done.

jon s

In Hawaii, there is a 30% Federal Tax credit plus a 35% State Tax credit (but the state credit is capped at $5,000). The average 10-panel installation costs about $15,000. With the total tax credit of about 65%, we actually pay only $5,000 out of pocket which is a real deal.

Any power generated by the panels during the day is sent to the local electric utility and the meter rolls back, e.g. the 10 panels generate about 15kW on a really sunny day. The 15kW is fed back into the grid. We use about 16kW of electricity a day (more if we use the a/c), so that means at the end of the day, the utility charges us only 1kW total for that day. Now 15kW would be a perfect day with absolutely no clouds interfering with the panels. But that is rarely the case, so the power generated can vary from 6kW to 15kW on any given day. If it is a rainy day, then power generated would be about 1-2kW.

So on average, we generate about 380kW/month but use about 600kW/month. We then have to pay the 220kW difference at $0.32/kW (electricity in Hawaii is very expensive) or about $70. Without the solar panels we would have to pay an additional $120/month or total $190+ some additional fees and charges or about $225.

At that rate, we recoup our investment in 41 months (cost/monthly savings or $5,000/120). When we had the panels installed, electricity was only $0.24/kW so the higher price accelerated the payback schedule (originally calculated at 72 months).

This year, we added six more panels so we are almost at the break even point, we now pay only $25/month for electricity. Any more panels would mean we would generate more power than what we use. Since the utility does not credit us for excessive power returned to the grid, it would be a waste of money to buy more panels.

After talking to some other solar users, we figured that the average home in Hawaii needs 8/panels per person to break even... Of course, this figure varies in different areas due to day length and nominal weather forecasts.

If you are considering to go to any conservation of energy, the best bang for the buck would be for solar water heating since the water heater uses 25-30% of your electricity in the home. The average solar water heater costs about $6,000.

You can see the power generated on my system by clicking here....

Some caveats... do not go out and buy generic Chinese manufactured panels. They have poor reliability and are generally low-powered (175 watts vs. 250 watts/panel). Find a company that has a proven track record as you do not want to find out one day that the company that installed the system is no longer in business.

On a postscript... Some people have decided on a "off the grid" system... This means that the power generated charges batteries at the home during the day and power is drawn from the batteries at night. The drawback here is that your system has to generate enough power to charge the batteries everyday. Another issue to consider, what if you have several rainy days? That means you have to have enough storage capacity to last that period. Also, batteries can only be used/recharged for so long before they have to be replaced, so ongoing recurring costs is involved.

We considered that problem and are now looking at an alternative. On days where there is an extended power outage, a gas generator can be hooked into the house system. A nominal 2,000 watt generator will not power the entire house but will supply enough power to keep the refrigerator and some lights going, maybe a small TV set or radio.

Either way, make sure that any system installed is done by a licensed contractor... The utility would not like to check out a line that they think is dead and you are feeding power into it....

Sherardp

I'm traveling guys but Mitsubishi came out and installed the Solar panels in my home. I think initially I was going for Panasonic, but in the end we changed due to longer warranty period, etc. Still went with the Monochrystalline type though, and went with a 6.5KW power output. Pics posted in a few.

Sherardp

Pics

Polkersince85

It looks like you are on your way and keep us informed on how you like it. I've got a 180w panel that I am rigging up to a 12v attic fan. A self-powered fan really cuts the cooling costs down South.

Here's an alternative to the panels that Dow will been selling in the near future:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-20123121-54/dow-starts-mass-marketing-solar-shingles/?tag=txt;title

Gadabout

Nice clean install inside the house. Let us know how it goes and what your likes / dislikes and what you might have done different, once they have been in place for awhile.

Scott