Pioneer Elite , for long time followers come in and express yourself.

mantis

I posted this on the Sharp Elite thread but after I wrote it I felt it deserved it's own thread. It kinda got off topic and I didn't want that thread to lose focus as I did. So read it and post your thoughts. Let see how deep this rabbit hole is.

(FROM SHARP ELITE THREAD)
As a very long time fan of Pioneer Elite , I'm slightly annoyed by this new set. I know I haven't officially demo'd and reviewed it for myself. I try to be the one in the industry who welcomes change and moving forward. Over the years this has bit me a few times and lately I watch companies fall which I held dear to my heart. It's pretty frustrating to see all this go on.

When you look at history , you see a product line that stood alone. You see a product line that held itself in high regard and earned respect not demand it. So lets look at a few things here which stays on topic but just slightly off the side of the road.
1) Urushi finish. This has been the trade mark of Elite since the beginning. Ok moving forward some fool wanted to go Brushed Alunium. WHY?? Why change what worked? What was one of the things that separated you from the pack? For me I hate it. I like Brushed style finishes on any other product but Elite . Someone gotta stop touching things or it's going to be something.
2) LED. I know Sharp is a LCD company and to my knowledge never produced a plasma. Pioneer never made a LCD to my knowledge as all of there sets where plasma. My beef is plasma technology is superior to LCD any version and why is the industry moving away from plasma? I know all the stupid marketing reasons but really whats the really real answer to this question? Try to get a really real straight answer out of anyone. I'd like to stand their with a Louisville Slugger on my shoulder awaiting a honest answer.
3) Blue Ray players. Ok this is where I have a pretty big beef. I never purchased one for many reasons and went in other directions out of my personal needs. Ok maybe it's selfish but maybe it's not but why offer the very first universal player , hit a home run with it , come out with updated beautiful players in DVD format and leave it all behind when Blue ray hit the market? Pioneer prides themselves on Audio quality and offering the best at their respected price points. So why take what you have been doing a great job on and leave it at the curb? Moving forward? I'm suppose to move ahead with now having to have multiple players in my system so I can spin my SACD and DVD AUDIO disks when I didn't have to before?
4) Dropping out of the TV market for a few years. Ok If they where developing a brand new technology of which they showed a number of years ago and made a splash , I'm so for doing so but they pussied out and teamed up with Sharp( I know this isn't the first time) and went with 4 color LED. I believe this was a poor decision especially since they are close to the most expensive Tv on the market and being LED and having some issues that comes with that technology. Does plasma have off angle problems? Lets see 180 deg viewing angles , hmm no problems there. Motion , can we say CRT abilities? No problems at all.

LCD go suck ****. I hate you.

Toolfan66

LOL!! Well said Dan, I do agree with you on the plasma's..

leroyjr1

Everything changes for a reason. Cost savings these days are number one. Pioneer plasma's was just to expensive for many to afford. Yes they're outstanding plasma's but at $6k how many are they really going to sell versus the smarter companies like Samsung which make TV's that start at $400. They're the number one selling tv company for a reason.

While I prefer plasma's over lcd/led's for PQ every technology has its flaws. IMO LCDs and LED's are more reliable and less things seem to go wrong. LED's are starting to narrow the gap between the two technologies.

Toolfan66

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Everything changes for a reason. Cost savings these days are number one. Pioneer plasma's was just to expensive for many to afford. Yes they're outstanding plasma's but at $6k how many are they really going to sell versus the smarter companies like Samsung which make TV's that start at $400. They're the number one selling tv company for a reason.

While I prefer plasma's over lcd/led's for PQ every technology has its flaws. IMO LCDs and LED's are more reliable and less things seem to go wrong. LED's are starting to narrow the gap between the two technologies.

Go wrong?? I have a Samsung Plasma that I have had for about 6 years now in my bedroom used everyday and I have not had one issue with it..

Conradicles

Plasma is the "best value for picture quality" no question. The only complaint I can find on my Pioneer Plasma is that it puts off quite a bit of heat. Now in the winter that is a good thing, haha.

To think you can get a 60" Panny or Sammy Plasma for around $1200 is a smokin' deal...

All brands have flaws, but the fact is prices have come down to make a huge tv finally affordable.

leroyjr1

TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »

Go wrong?? I have a Samsung Plasma that I have had for about 6 years now in my bedroom used everyday and I have not had one issue with it..

That's great to hear but like any electronic there's issues, some have more some has less.

leroyjr1

TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »

Go wrong?? I have a Samsung Plasma that I have had for about 6 years now in my bedroom used everyday and I have not had one issue with it..

Look at the top dogs in the Plasma industry.

Pioneer Kuro's current problem is Reddish tint in Blacks.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1361871

Panasonic top models have had black level rising, flickering, and FB's issues. Samsung also have had issues.

Polkie2009

Love them or hate them, CRTs always had great colors when dialed in. I had a Panny that had the most accurate black level , LCDs couldn't come close.

Marty913

Part of the longer range problem are the new energy guidelines, which will only get tougher as time goes on. According to the CNET Energy Guide a 50" - 54" LG or Panasonic plasma will draw between 283 & 385 watts. A Sony 52" LCD will draw 238 and the newer Samsung 55" draws 136 watts. I just don't think the technology will ever exist that will light up a 55" plasma with 136 watts (or soon to be less). Not saying that was the main part of the decision at Pioneer but I'll bet it was in the mix somewhere.

BlueFox

I'm not sure I understand the issue. If you are referring to the new Sharp Elite LCD TV then the only thing in common with Pioneer is the the name 'Elite'.

On the back cover of this month's (October 2011) Home Theater magazine is an ad for the Sharp Elite LCD. At the bottom is this statement:

"Elite and the Elite logo are registered trademarks of the Pioneer Corporation and are used under license."

Pioneer needed a few dollars so they licensed the name to Sharp.

F1nut

1) Urushi finish.

Agreed, they should have stuck with it.

2) LED.

No thanks! There isn't one that comes close to a plasma.

Panasonic top models have had black level rising, flickering, and FB's issues.

No such issues with my Panny, nor does it produce any noticeable heat, which I could really care less about and don't know why others do.

mantis

BlueFox wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand the issue. If you are referring to the new Sharp Elite LCD TV then the only thing in common with Pioneer is the the name 'Elite'.

On the back cover of this month's (October 2011) Home Theater magazine is an ad for the Sharp Elite LCD. At the bottom is this statement:

"Elite and the Elite logo are registered trademarks of the Pioneer Corporation and are used under license."

Pioneer needed a few dollars so they licensed the name to Sharp.

So that makes everything ok? Soil on a brand name many have loved for decades? Cool

BlueFox

mantis wrote: »

So that makes everything ok? Soil on a brand name many have loved for decades? Cool

Talk to Pioneer. I suspect they are now run by MBAs. Look what happened to Sony after the MBAs took over. I'm still irritated at Sony for killing their SXRD RPTV in favor of LED flat screen. The SXRD RPTV put everything to shame, including plasmas.

mantis

BlueFox wrote: »

Talk to Pioneer. I suspect they are now run by MBAs. Look what happened to Sony after the MBAs took over. I'm still irritated at Sony for killing their SXRD RPTV in favor of LED flat screen. The SXRD RPTV put everything to shame, including plasmas.

I actually plan on spending some time with our Rep. I want to get to the bottom of all these changes and where the company is headed. The new receivers and Blu ray players are very nice. I'm considering one of the them as we speak. I want to know who decided to change the finish and why. Why LED.

leroyjr1

BlueFox wrote: »

Talk to Pioneer. I suspect they are now run by MBAs. Look what happened to Sony after the MBAs took over. I'm still irritated at Sony for killing their SXRD RPTV in favor of LED flat screen. The SXRD RPTV put everything to shame, including plasmas.

Have you checked out the new Sony 929's? Very impressive minus the bleed thru.

jbooker82

BlueFox wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand the issue. If you are referring to the new Sharp Elite LCD TV then the only thing in common with Pioneer is the the name 'Elite'.

That is the problem. Loyal proud customers feel like Pioneer is selling them out. If "Elite" is sprayed all over the place by other manufactures who purchased it. Is Elite still truly elite? Not only does it loose its meaning, it some what devalues the excellent products that Pioneer has developed and sold themselves.

LeftCoast

Here's my theory.

First of all most people who go into a store to buy an hdtv don't do much research, if any at all. Second of all, once they go into a store, see the price of a Pioneer Elite, then look at super bright LCD tv. They mistake brightness for picture quality and say, "Hey! Look at the picture on that set! It's much better than any of those stinky plasma screens! OMG! They want how much for that Pioneer???

Then the buy the LCD set. More consumers buy the LCD set, so the companies start making more of those and PROMOTING them more.

Some people are convinced that hamburgers are much better than filet mignon.

tonyb

LeftCoast wrote: »

Some people are convinced that hamburgers are much better than filet mignon.

How many more can afford hamburger over filet mignon ? When the name of the game is to sell products, which group would you focus your attention on ? Polk does the same thing as most any manufacturer of goods. Just simply a numbers game.

Most electronics companies sell their goods world wide. Is the global economy getting better or worse ? Should they target their products to the upper end or lower end ? Mind you, there will always be upper end buyers, but the sheer numbers of the lower end of the scale would tell anyone to target those people if you want to sell product in volume. Pioneer unfortunately decided to target that segment with an elite brand that they made wider and more available to the masses. I think they somehow gave into the bean counters and forgot how to protect brand name/reputation.

It's the same in all other products too. Maytag, Toyota, as just 2 examples, built product reputation on quality. Would anyone argue that quality in those 2 companies have slipped quite a bit ? It's an equation that lends itself to everything we buy. Rising costs to produce a product, and stagnant consumer wages, which means less and less disposable income to buy those products. It would also be safe to say that more and more are looking to get that bang for your buck in everything we buy. I'm sure market research has told many a company this and what your seeing is manufacturers adjusting to it.

larry777

I am also sure that a large group of people felt that the Pioneer sets were actually the best ( Including me ), but when they looked down at their wallet....realized that they just couldn't afford that set. Then you have to add in the cost of a decent H/T System. With sales, you could get a decent Panasonic or Samsung Plasma ( much better than the set they were leaving ) and the H/T system combined for the price of the Pioneer TV. I mean who would want a killer TV and not be able to afford to connect a good H/T system to it ? And how many more people would want to wait for that quality H/T System after buying the Pioneer TV after realizing they had no money left ? Yes, I'm affraid Budget, Cash Flow, and Bang for the Buck are the deciding factors....more times than not.

tonyb

Actually, you'd be surprised at how many homes I've walked into with no HT system at all. On the list of priorities, HT is way down that list in household budgets. I see more HT in a box units too than I care to ruin my eyes with. Disposable income gents, some have it,some don't, only today most don't have it and given the current outlook down the road, it will be awhile before that balance is shifted back.

LeftCoast

tonyb wrote: »

How many more can afford hamburger over filet mignon ? When the name of the game is to sell products, which group would you focus your attention on ? Polk does the same thing as most any manufacturer of goods. Just simply a numbers game.

Most electronics companies sell their goods world wide. Is the global economy getting better or worse ? Should they target their products to the upper end or lower end ? Mind you, there will always be upper end buyers, but the sheer numbers of the lower end of the scale would tell anyone to target those people if you want to sell product in volume. Pioneer unfortunately decided to target that segment with an elite brand that they made wider and more available to the masses. I think they somehow gave into the bean counters and forgot how to protect brand name/reputation.

It's the same in all other products too. Maytag, Toyota, as just 2 examples, built product reputation on quality. Would anyone argue that quality in those 2 companies have slipped quite a bit ? It's an equation that lends itself to everything we buy. Rising costs to produce a product, and stagnant consumer wages, which means less and less disposable income to buy those products. It would also be safe to say that more and more are looking to get that bang for your buck in everything we buy. I'm sure market research has told many a company this and what your seeing is manufacturers adjusting to it.

Yes, I meant to say that too. More people can afford hamburgers/Dynex tv's

mantis

Every single Item in this world has value and a price. People who value a high quality item are willing to spend the money to acquire such items. Pioneer Elite TV's where no different. When they where out I Installed more Elite TV's then anything else. They are what sold and people also purchased Home theater systems to go along with them. Most of them purchased a very high end system. Some Bought Bose , Home theater in a box and what have you that didn't see the value in the audio side of the experience but still purchased that Elite Monitor because it was the best.
Today I understand times are very different but I believe they don't have to be. I'm in that boat of money is tight , the economy killed my way of life and I had to figure out a new way. But my personal wants have not changed. I have no plans on scaling back the few things I'm passionate about. Other things yes I'm still figuring out how to survive in this crazy world when life was so much better just a few short years ago.

Much has been lost over the last few years. Pioneer Elite is a brand that stands for excellence. I don't want that to be lost.