MAJOR disaster at the Reno Air Races...

nooshinjohn

A P-51 Mustang, known as the "Galloping Ghost" has crashed into the stands, under what appeared to be full throttle, at the famed Reno Air Race in Nevada. Dozens of spectators have been injured and many killed, including the pilot, Jimmy Leeward. My prayers sent to all those affected, by this tragedy.:frown:


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/09/16/plane-crashes-at-nevada-air-race/

stuwee

I just heard about this, but on CNN, the real news network. Very sad :frown: I hope this doesn't stop future races. Thoughts and prayers for those involved.

dave shepard

Prayers sent to all affected. That is just horrible.

Dave

BlueFox

Yes. I have been watching this on the news. A true tragedy for all involved.

To be honest, I am surprised it took this long to happen. I went to those races in the late 70s, and while sitting there watching the planes go round and round I realized all it would take is one minor slip-up for a plane to decimate the spectators. My choice was to never return. How this should be handled is another discussion.

thesurfer

stuwee wrote: »

I just heard about this, but on CNN, the real news network. Very sad :frown: I hope this doesn't stop future races. Thoughts and prayers for those involved.

Who cares where you heard it?? This sucks, people cant even go out, and have a good time anymore,

jbooker82

Not really any different than rally / desert racing where the crowd outlines the track.

FTGV

Pilot was 80yrs old.

nooshinjohn

FTGV wrote: »

Pilot was 80yrs old.

Hadn't heard that... if thats the case AND he had a heart attack while flying that bird, I will be pissed! It's one thing to die doing what you love and an entirely different thing to take others out with you. There is no way in hell an Indy car driver would qualify to drive 220mph on race day. How the hell does an 80 year old qualify to fly 550mph in an event like this?

Tony M

74 is not the new 44 anymore. At least not in the plane racing venue anymore.


Condolences to the families of the deceased and prayers toward those hurt.:frown:

jbooker82

nooshinjohn wrote: »

How the hell does an 80 year old qualify to fly 550mph in an event like this?

Lots of $$$$. P51 Mustangs are billionaire's toys.

thesurfer

Idots shouldnt let an 80 year old man fly a plane,,,

nooshinjohn

thesurfer wrote: »

Idots shouldnt let an 80 year old man fly a plane,,,

Flying is one thing. Doing it at 550 miles per hour@6g's around pylons, 50 feet off the ground and 100 feet from the spectator line is a diffferent thing altogether. The first is an accident waiting to happen, the latter is a horrific disaster waiting to happen. Should medical reasons be the cause of the crash, somebody should be held to account. My numbers may be wrong here as I am not a fan of air races and do not know much about it, but they have no impact at all on my feelings about what happened.

F1nut

So let's say the accident was the result of a medical condition, perhaps a heart attack. Are you guys that ignorant to think that the same couldn't happen to a younger pilot? Hello!

It's sad that people lost their lives regardless of the cause.

thesurfer

F1nut wrote: »

So let's say the accident was the result of a medical condition, perhaps a heart attack. Are you guys that ignorant to think that the same couldn't happen to a younger pilot? Hello!

It's sad that people lost their lives regardless of the cause.

No, not at all, but id rather have someone flying planes a bit younger,, Like by at least 20 years.

nooshinjohn

F1nut wrote: »

So let's say the accident was the result of a medical condition, perhaps a heart attack. Are you guys that ignorant to think that the same couldn't happen to a younger pilot? Hello!

It's sad that people lost their lives regardless of the cause.

40 year old dying from a heart attack vs 80 year old dying of a heart attack? While it is true that anyone at any age can have a heart attack,I think the overwhelming evidence is with the 80 year old being several orders of magnitude more likely to have a heart attack as the 40 year old, assuming that both are reasonably fit for their respective age.

Another thing to remember is that at those speeds and that close to the ground, a twitch on the stick after a good sneeze would be enough of a mistake to be fatal in a nano-second.

I would be willing to bet that the greatest living pilot, General Chuck Yeager would have sat that race out based on knowing those risks alone. What you say Jesse is still quite true, it COULD happen to anyone, but the safe bet is always to minimize the risk. The 80 year old, under those extreme conditions, would be like playing russian roulette with a Glock.

Another point to remember is that the Mustang is no small bird. She was a stick and rudder aircraft using cables and pulleys to move those control surfaces. There were no hydraulics, so everything was manual input. The amount of physical prowess needed to toss these birds around at those levels of stress on the body are immense. Anything could have gone wrong here. The rudder pedal may have kicked back causing a foot to slip, or a cable broke, or the stress was to much for the pilot... anything. It is best to wait for the investigation here.

thesurfer

nooshinjohn wrote: »

40 year old dying from a heart attack vs 80 year old dying of a heart attack? While it is true that anyone at any age can have a heart attack,I think the overwhelming evidence is with the 80 year old being several orders of magnitude more likely to have a heart attack as the 40 year old, assuming that both are reasonably fit for their respective age.

Another thing to remember is that at those speeds and that close to the ground, a twitch on the stick after a good sneeze would be enough of a mistake to be fatal in a nano-second.

I would be willing to bet that the greatest living pilot, General Chuck Yeager would have sat that race out based on knowing those risks alone. What you say Jesse is still quite true, it COULD happen to anyone, but the safe bet is always to minimize the risk. The 80 year old, under those extreme conditions, would be like playing russian roulette with a Glock.

Another point to remember is that the Mustang is no small bird. She was a stick and rudder aircraft using cables and pulleys to move those control surfaces. There were no hydraulics, so everything was manual input. The amount of physical prowess needed to toss these birds around at those levels of stress on the body are immense. Anything could have gone wrong here. The rudder pedal may have kicked back causing a foot to slip, or a cable broke, or the stress was to much for the pilot... anything. It is best to wait for the investigation here.

Very true, and well put, At the end of the day, its the lives lost that matter, And, who is truly at fault, in my eyes,, the sponcers, but thats just my OP.

nooshinjohn

Found this image of the Ghost less than a second before impact... I think the FAA would like to see this one. A couple things jump out at me here. First is that the pilot appears to be gone! The other is the extended tail wheel, which should be stowed. I can think of no mechanical failure in flight that would cause the tail wheel to drop, and loss of control.

Again, pure speculation here but not seeing the pilot through the canopy leads me to think something happened that was not mechanical.

falconcry72

thesurfer wrote: »

...And, who is truly at fault, in my eyes,, the sponcers, but thats just my OP.

How so?

F1nut

Racing of any kind, anywhere is inherently dangerous to the folks racing and to those watching. The risk is well known to all, so quit your whining about who or what is at fault. Geeesh!

txcoastal1

This is just one of those $hit happens moment----unfortunately very tragic----now if this were like the stage collapse there would be someone to blame

scottyboy76

the newer video was closer and captured the sound of the plane nose diving and striking the ground.

Awful, and sounded just like many of the war videos i have seen.

Prayers go out.

BIZILL

F1nut wrote: »

Racing of any kind, anywhere is inherently dangerous to the folks racing and to those watching. The risk is well known to all, so quit your whining about who or what is at fault. Geeesh!

Agreed, but not when a dude already has one foot in the grave. If by chance I'm picking on anyone here that's nearing 74, I say to you, "Don't go fly a funkin' plane around an audience.... or even within 5 miles of a populated city, for that matter."

Thank you. Thank you. I'm here all day.

stangman67

Seems at this point that something may have broken off the horizontal stabilizer causing the plane to pitch up suddenly and then the pilot did everything he did to keep the plane out of the grandstands. No one will ever really know what happened unless this broken piece can be confirmed but you never know

Tony M

Video close ups show the plane failed. Broken parts and maybe a cable too. I was in a restaraunt and saw this on the TV with no audio so....

Kudos to the elderly man for trying to live out his dangerous dream.
I just hope there's tests for these pilots to pass and I'll bet there is. That guy must have been in great condition.

Photos now show he was probably in better condition than his plane.

It's very saddening people died and about 60 were injured but why can't we talk about what might have happened and what might come of it for a day or two until the facts come out.

I doubted the pilots health and it was shown to be the plane. I wasn't going to sue his family or lay money down with odds as to it being his fault with out an investigation.
See my praise to his health above. The media will back off this story I'm sure since it's mechanical failure and not SOMEBODY's fault.

May God help all affected by this tragedy.

brgman

I feel for the lost and maybe more for the survivors that were up close and personal.
They reported that body parts were strewn all over the tarmac.Try sleeping with that vision the rest of your life.

Tony M

brgman wrote: »

I feel for the lost and maybe more for the survivors that were up close and personal.
They reported that body parts were strewn all over the tarmac.Try sleeping with that vision the rest of your life.

I worked for a Marine Recon Captain from the Vietnam vet who saw alot and has been able to deal with it but a few of his buddies have always needed help since returning.

My boss told me that on one occasion and one time only. We never talked about what he saw , ever.
He only mentioned it that one time too.

I worked with a Gulf war vet who took what he saw over in Iraq as revenge and dealt with it fine as far as I know as long as I've know him. He said he had photos if I wanted to see what the news media here would never show. I declined for just your stated reasons. I have a great memory and I would probably remember every photo I looked at.

brgman

I used to share a house with two buddies that were nam vets.Older than me but we were tight.
Both dead now.Drank themselves to death.
They would get in THAT mood sometimes when they started thinking about it.It was F'd up.

schwarcw

It doesn't matter if the pilot was 24 or 74. Nobody can fly a plane with a piece of tail missing!!

BlueFox

schwarcw wrote: »

It doesn't matter if the pilot was 24 or 74. Nobody can fly a plane with a piece of tail missing!!

Its hard to understand why these planes are so unstable with a part of the tail missing. I could understand it if the the actual tail fell off, or the left/right side fell off, but to lose control from the loss of such a small control surface is hard to grasp. Now if the loss resulted in cables being jammed up then that makes more sense.

I suspect in WWII these planes were more damaged than this from combat, and managed to make it back home.

nooshinjohn

Loss of trim would make the aircraft a handful for sure, maybe even two handfuls, however the Mustang was famous for bringing her pilots home with half the tail shot off. The aerodynamics on these raceplanes are vastly superior to their dog-fighting ancestors, and than may play a significant factor here, but I still want to know what the officials have to say about it.

schwarcw

BlueFox wrote: »

Its hard to understand why these planes are so unstable with a part of the tail missing. I could understand it if the the actual tail fell off, or the left/right side fell off, but to lose control from the loss of such a small control surface is hard to grasp.

Do some research. There were about six or seven 737s that were lost due to a hydraulic cylinder that controls the tail trim section to malfunction. There was a massive grounding of the 737s to correct that problem. Oh yes, that will bring a plane down.