Which DAC - Benchmark DAC1 or Musical Fidelity M1?

SpiceRoute

BlueFox wrote: »

You can always buy a seperate tuner. No need to find a pre-amp with a built-in tuner.

BlueFox, thanks for the thought, but there are alot of competing interests over here, and the pre-amp with tuner maybe an ideal solution.

SpiceRoute

falconcry72 wrote: »

Budget?

$250ish

SpiceRoute

What about used Adcom GTP 500 preamp w/tuner. I'm thinking of holding off on the Benchmark at this second and just try the system with these two pieces. I've committed to the 545, any thoughts, reviews, advice on the GTP 500. Would it be a good match. Remember, this is strictly for 2 channel listening.

tonyb

falconcry72 wrote: »

Tony I gotta disagree with you on this one.

.

Thats cool bro, no biggie. Here's my problem and no offense to anyone. The OP is obviously on a budget and has limited knowlege of what everyone is suggesting he buy without first getting a handle on what exactly he wants. Thats why I brought up the tuner...to get him to think about what he needs before going off half cocked and buying stuff that won't fit his needs. The adcom is a good deal, and yes he can add a tuner, but now we are talking a pre,a tuner, an amp,and a dac....and if I'm not mistaken, he said he has limited space. Also thats alot of cables he's going to need and should be aware of that additional cost.

Again, not knocking any advice given, all have merit, and some very good suggestions, but at a stated 250 buck budget, I think we are stretching our suggestions a tad. If he can stretch his budget a smidge, the adcom amp and pre is a good place to start.

heiney9

Nm

h9

tonyb

Think I saw a MF A3 pre on the 'gon for 4 clams. That will **** slap that Adcom 500.

Here's another.....
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatran&1320472299&/Rotel-RC1070

SpiceRoute

tonyb wrote: »

Again, not knocking any advice given, all have merit, and some very good suggestions, but at a stated 250 buck budget, I think we are stretching our suggestions a tad.

Tony, I so appreciated your advice. Excellent. The Adcom amp is a done deal. Now we need to add a pre-amp with tuner ($250ish for that alone) and give the rotel and mites a whirl with just those two pieces. Hold off on the DAC (for now only:rolleyes:)

SpiceRoute

tonyb wrote: »

Think I saw a MF A3 pre on the 'gon for 4 clams. That will **** slap that Adcom 500.

Here's another.....
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatran&1320472299&/Rotel-RC1070

I saw that Rotel, its a beauty and its the mate to my Rotel RCD-1072, but I don't think it has a tuner. I know, I know "forget the tuner", but I need it.

falconcry72

tonyb wrote: »

...but at a stated 250 buck budget, I think we are stretching our suggestions a tad. If he can stretch his budget a smidge, the adcom amp and pre is a good place to start.

The 250 he mentioned was later on in the thread, and meant just for the preamp. His original budget was between 700-1000 just for one of the (2) DAC's.

My point was that he could improve his sound more for less money by getting a new separate amp and preamp.


original plan:

-spend ~$1000
-chain: rotel cdp > digital out > benchmark or mf > kenwood receiver > mites


new plan:

-spend ~$500 (half as much)
-chain: rotel cdp > analog out > Adcom GTP-500 or other > Adcom GFA-545 > mites


I think he made the right choice. His new plan will sound better, and for half the cost, plus he can always add an external DAC later.

SpiceRoute

falconcry72 wrote: »

new plan:

-spend ~$500 (half as much)
-chain: rotel cdp > analog out > Adcom GTP-500 or other > Adcom GFA-545 > mites

GTP 500 II and GFA 545, are on their way (Total - $380). Let's keep our fingers crossed there are no hums, spinning pots with no gain, or sparks flying. Thank you to all!! Especially, Falconcry who saw me through this. Now what about that DAC???

falconcry72

SpiceRoute wrote: »

Thank you to all!! Especially, Falconcry who saw me through this.

No problem, man!

Now what about that DAC???

Well you still need one at some point, but it's not dire a situation. Since your original budget would have been near 1000 for the Benchmark alone, one angle would be to look at DAC's in the 620 and below range, so that you stay within your original budget while making drastic improvements.

If playing music out of your computer is something you want to be able to do well, then you either need a DAC that has an asynchronous USB input, or you'll need to add an ansynchronous USB to SPDIF converter (Musical Fidelity V-Link $170) to any non-USB DAC.

The Musical Fidelity V-DAC mk2 is coming out soon. Maybe it's already out. Not sure. The mk2 basically combines the old V-DAC with the V-Link for asynchronous USB playback, plus it comes in a shiny, more elegant looking case. It will probably be around 500 but that's a guess. It would be a great choice, if it'll be out soon.

If you don't need USB, the V-DAC mk1 is a great choice for 300. It has USB, but it's not implemented very well.

People also like the DACMagic, but I've never heard one. I don't remember if its USB input is asynchronous or not.

Option 2 is to throw your budget out the window, and stick with the M1 + V-Link or Benchmark + V-Link, which would run you 870 and 1170, respectively, unless of course you go used.

SpiceRoute

I can see this is a discussion that needs to be continued. What is the difference sonically between the V-DAC and the M1?

heiney9

falconcry72 wrote: »

No problem, man!



Well you still need one at some point, but it's not dire a situation. Since your original budget would have been near 1000 for the Benchmark alone, one angle would be to look at DAC's in the 620 and below range, so that you stay within your original budget while making drastic improvements.

If playing music out of your computer is something you want to be able to do well, then you either need a DAC that has an asynchronous USB input, or you'll need to add an ansynchronous USB to SPDIF converter (Musical Fidelity V-Link $170) to any non-USB DAC.

The Musical Fidelity V-DAC mk2 is coming out soon. Maybe it's already out. Not sure. The mk2 basically combines the old V-DAC with the V-Link for asynchronous USB playback, plus it comes in a shiny, more elegant looking case. It will probably be around 500 but that's a guess. It would be a great choice, if it'll be out soon.

If you don't need USB, the V-DAC mk1 is a great choice for 300. It has USB, but it's not implemented very well.

People also like the DACMagic, but I've never heard one. I don't remember if its USB input is asynchronous or not.

Option 2 is to throw your budget out the window, and stick with the M1 + V-Link or Benchmark + V-Link, which would run you 870 and 1170, respectively, unless of course you go used.

Great advice, except most if not all of these choices will outclass his preamp. I held my response about the GTP-500 because I realized his budget, but IMO, if he;s going to spend $600+ on a Dac now, some of that money should have been used for a better sounding preamp to begin with. The GTP500 is mediocre at best but not bad for what he paid.

Just my .02c

H9

steveinaz

SpiceRoute wrote: »

GTP 500 II and GFA 545, are on their way (Total - $380). Let's keep our fingers crossed there are no hums, spinning pots with no gain, or sparks flying. Thank you to all!! Especially, Falconcry who saw me through this. Now what about that DAC???

You'll have to spend a lot of money on a DAC to out-do that Rotel. Get a DAC later....

Buying either of the 2 you are looking at (V-dac/m1) is a move---sideways---not UP. I even doubt the improvement of a Benchmark would be notable enough to be worth the coin. The 1072 is pretty damn respectable "standalone" CD player.

falconcry72

heiney9 wrote: »

Great advice, except most if not all of these choices will outclass his preamp. I held my response about the GTP-500 because I realized his budget, but IMO, if he;s going to spend $600+ on a Dac now, some of that money should have been used for a better sounding preamp to begin with. The GTP500 is mediocre at best but not bad for what he paid.

Just my .02c

H9

I agree. I advised SpicedRoute in an email that the GTP-500 would be his weakest link, but for the price he got it for it would be a quick way to make use of the GFA-545 he just bought while looking for something more long term, and he won't lose anything on it when he goes to turn it around.

I also agree that uprgading that pre down the line may be more beneficial than adding an external DAC, given that the Rotel CDP aint too shabby at all.

I advised earlier that he should be careful with his preamp decision, and I stick by that.

SpicedRoute, maybe give this one some thought over the next few weeks before rushing into anything, that way you'll be sure you're getting exactly what you want.

Either way, I think you've made some good decisions, and those Totems (and your ears) will be thanking you!

tonyb was right to warn you about the all-consuming nature of this hobby though, so watch your step; it's a slippery slope to the dark side...

heiney9

steveinaz wrote: »

You'll have to spend a lot of money on a DAC to out-do that Rotel. Get a DAC later....

Buying either of the 2 you are looking at (V-dac/m1) is a move---sideways---not UP. I even doubt the improvement of a Benchmark would be notable enough to be worth the coin. The 1072 is pretty damn respectable "standalone" CD player.

I've heard the 1072 multiple times and you are correct Steve, as a stand alone cdp it's really good, but even my stock Adcom GDA 600 bettered it. The Benchmark will better it easily and I even bet the M1 would better it.

Again great cdp, but most respectible dac's bring a little more to the table than the 1072 delivers. Of course the improvement vs. $$$ spent is in the ear of the beholder.

YMMV

H9

P.s. All the above said, I think the OP can put a DAC on the back burner since the 1072 is a really nice player all by itself, unless you are looking to do the PC/music server thing.............then.........well, you'll need a dac.

SpiceRoute

I read an older thread on the forum the other day. A member had purchased some new speakers and before they were delivered he upgraded to a new set. I lost a lot of sleep last night deciding to purchase the GTP ("mediocre at best" ouch, Heiny 9, that hurt). It had to be done though just to get into the game. Additional sleep was lost in anticipation of the rig's arrival. I have lived this long (my age is probably a combination of a number of yours out there) without a DAC, a few more months won't be a problem. Let's settle in with this new set up. See how it goes, and then lets consider a pre-amp upgrade and maybe even a DAC. Trust me, I will keep you poste. Now, next question, should I be considering a relatively inexpensive switch box, if I want to listen to the living room speakers (Bose mini cubes). There is no way I want to degrade an ounce of the sound coming out of the Totems, so I'm concerned about running the signal through another device. I sense, unless I'm willing to buy a fancy box, if I want to listen in the living room (which does not happen often, not sure if I mentioned but the main listening spot for us is the kitchen), I will just have to pull out the Totem wires and plug the other ones in.

steveinaz

For the best fidelity, I'd switch wires. Use bananas to make to process much easier. I think holding off on the DAC for now is a wise move. I think the 1072 will impress as is.

heiney9

Spice, I've been around a lot of gear and A LOT of Adcom gear and I'm just telling it like I see it, not trying to be hurtful or bash anything.

Make your own judgment compared to what you had, and decide. There is a lot of middle of the road gear that many people don't mind. For the price you paid and where you are in your journey I think you did OK.

We all have to make our own experiences.

BTW, I had an Adcom GFA545 for almost 20 years............great amp and I feel it edges out the 555 for overall tone and sound.

I'm in the wire crowd just like Steve, get some nice cables (don't have to break the bank)

Look at Signal Cable for I/C's and if you are handy Canare Star Quad (4S11) can be bought inexpensively and you can terminate yourself for speaker cables.

H9

steveinaz

I think you're gonna be very pleased with your system.

falconcry72

SpiceRoute wrote: »

...Now, next question, should I be considering a relatively inexpensive switch box, if I want to listen to the living room speakers (Bose mini cubes). .

Why don't you hook them up to your Kenwood in there?

SpiceRoute

falconcry72 wrote: »

Why don't you hook them up to your Kenwood in there?

That Kenwood is going into storage. We live in Brooklyn and space comes at a premium. (I mentioned the DAC to the Mrs., who truly supports me in all things, even this, but... she asked, "is it small"?).

Wires, we don't need no stinking wires. Not yet at least.

falconcry72

SpiceRoute wrote: »

... she asked, "is it small"?)

A common question for her?:eek:

Wires, we don't need no stinking wires. Not yet at least.

Yet being the operative word.

Seriously though, you don't want to go to all the trouble of piecing together a nice system to then not let it operate at its full potential because you skimped on wires.

SpiceRoute

falconcry72 wrote: »

A common question for her?:eek:

I anticipated that Steve Carell response - "that's what she said".

SpiceRoute

heiney9 wrote: »

if you are handy Canare Star Quad (4S11) can be bought inexpensively and you can terminate yourself for speaker cables.H9

How handy? I can strip wire, I can use a pliers. I do not want to solder but can if I have to. What kind of "termination" should I be using, what is best suited for the adcoms. For the present time, we are only talking inteconnects, between the Rotel, to the Preamp, to the Amp. The new wire chain has got to stop there. (The wires from the amp to the speakers are in the walls and I have to live with those. Weak link. I get it.)

falconcry72

SpiceRoute wrote: »

How handy? I can strip wire, I can use a pliers. I do not want to solder but can if I have to. What kind of "termination" should I be using, what is best suited for the adcoms. For the present time, we are only talking inteconnects, between the Rotel, to the Preamp, to the Amp. The new wire chain has got to stop there. (The wires from the amp to the speakers are in the walls and I have to live with those. Weak link. I get it.)

Get Signal Cables for your IC's.

http://signalcable.com/products.html

The Analog Two's are nice, and only 49 a pair for 2ft.

SpiceRoute

falconcry72 wrote: »

The Analog Two's are nice, and only 49 a pair for 2ft.

A pair from the Rotel to the Preamp and a second pair from the preamp to the amp?

falconcry72

SpiceRoute wrote: »

A pair from the Rotel to the Preamp and a second pair from the preamp to the amp?

You got it, my friend.

If you don't need two whole feet, you could probably get Frank (the owner) to make you shorter lengths for cheaper. Just ask real nice and tell him you're a member of Club Polk.

SpiceRoute

Both the GFA 545 II and GTP 500 II arrived today. Of course in reality I'm sure the Kenwood sounded as good, but it is sort of amazing to hear Rickie Lee Jones drag her fingers across the frets of her acoustic guitar and here that
little friction screech. I'm sensing a deeper sound stage, but what do i know, its probably the dish washer. Anyway, there is something thrilling going on in a kitchen in Brooklyn right now.

falconcry72

SpiceRoute wrote: »

Both the GFA 545 II and GTP 500 II arrived today. Of course in reality I'm sure the Kenwood sounded as good, but it is sort of amazing to hear Rickie Lee Jones drag her fingers across the frets of her acoustic guitar and here that
little friction screech. I'm sensing a deeper sound stage, but what do i know, its probably the dish washer. Anyway, there is something thrilling going on in a kitchen in Brooklyn right now.

Congrats, Joe!:biggrin:

So... do you think it sounds better? I can't really tell by your post.

BTW, how do you have your speakers positioned?