Would increasing the distance between my speakers help with localization issues?

kazaam

Hi all, I was starting to think that something was wrong with my right speaker that I just bought (bought two Monitor 70s and a CS2), but i am beginning to think that its because the speakers are too close. I feel like the left might be more detailed/fuller/better than the right.

When its in stereo, i feel like i hear it towards the left center more than the right. I tried switching wires and running tones and it seems the same so im pretty sure that the right speaker is ok and its not a bad receiver channel either. I didnt seem to have this problem with my tiny Onkyo satellite speakers though. Most of it seemed to be a bad initial Audyssey calibration, and a re-calibration helped tremendously (if not completely, i still have to play around with it).

Should i try to separate them further? Any advice about toe-in (do i just point them towards the center seating position)?

Any advice?

kazaam

DSkip wrote: »

Is it possibly out of phase?

Im pretty anal about my cabling and re-checked, so I dont think so. I cant be positive though.

intangible

Check to make sure Audyssey got the balance of the front channels correct. My right channel is 3db louder than the left in my room, and it sounds like your description when they're set at equal levels.

treitz3

Hello, the Sumiko setup, Cardas Golden Cuboid or just plain setting up your speakers per manual instructions may help you resolve your issue. All of which can be found on this forum.

tonyb

Check your speaker levels in the menu, and adjust until your ears tell you it's good. Yes,it's as simple as that.

RuSsMaN

Skipper, screams phase to me too.

mantis

I'm thinking Phase here , recheck your wiring.

decal

tonyb wrote: »

Check your speaker levels in the menu, and adjust until your ears tell you it's good. Yes,it's as simple as that.

Sage advice for sure.

apphd

kazaam wrote: »

Im pretty anal about my cabling and re-checked, so I dont think so. I cant be positive though.

You may need to open your speakers up and verify it isn't wired wrong internally.

tonyb

mantis wrote: »

I'm thinking Phase here , recheck your wiring.

Possible Dan, also possible he has some of the plastic coating from the wire inside the binding post, but since we are working on limited info here, anything is possible.

kazaam

apphd wrote: »

You may need to open your speakers up and verify it isn't wired wrong internally.

how can i open them up without damaging them? im pretty new to this!

kazaam

so the speakers are about the same distance from each other as they are from the couch, forming an (almost) equilateral triangle per advice from a lot of different people.

I played around with it and did some blind tests and think its fixed, but im thinking the actual issue may be the toe in angle of the speakers. theyre almost exactly the same angle though, which is why it is confusing. there are no really huge differences on either side of the room.

I'm thinking i may move them out a bit further and decrease the angle a bit. if you move your head just a bit to either side it sounds like that side is louder from my blind tests. here is a pic so you guys can get an idea:

disneyjoe7

I'm thinking speaker phase also, you could just swap one wire around to see. Quick enough.


Looking at your picture feel the speakers are too close also, and try to toe out some.

Face

Pull them away from the back wall.

kazaam

Theyre a few inches away from it already. How much further is optimal?

Face

It depends on the room. Try inching them forward until they're the same distance as the front of your AV table. Then try different widths and amount of toe.

Joe08867

To much toe, Maybe a phase issue, and to close to back wall.

I would pull them out at least 3 more inches or to be almost flush with the TV stand. Then take out most of the Toe if not all of it. And check the Phase on them

Drenis

Agreed with Joe's post.

With my RTI A9's, I had them hugging on the opposite side of my TV flushed straight and the sound was not as good as having them pushed as far out width wise as i could with a VERY slight toe in. They image perfect. Toed straight on and they got too wide. Still very nice. I haven't found a happy spot just yet.

Joe08867

I have found with RTi's that they like distance apart and from the listener before they get all imaged up nice.

scottyboy76

treitz3 wrote: »

Hello, the Sumiko setup, Cardas Golden Cuboid or just plain setting up your speakers per manual instructions may help you resolve your issue. All of which can be found on this forum.

But damn it sounds right.

scottyboy76

kazaam wrote: »

so the speakers are about the same distance from each other as they are from the couch, forming an (almost) equilateral triangle per advice from a lot of different people.

I played around with it and did some blind tests and think its fixed, but im thinking the actual issue may be the toe in angle of the speakers. theyre almost exactly the same angle though, which is why it is confusing. there are no really huge differences on either side of the room.

I'm thinking i may move them out a bit further and decrease the angle a bit. if you move your head just a bit to either side it sounds like that side is louder from my blind tests. here is a pic so you guys can get an idea:

BTW my wife loves the color of your walls

kazaam

haha, thanks scott...i think its more of a mix between the warm lights and the wall color than the actual color itself. its more of a light color, kinda whitish/beige. Anyway, onto the changes...

1. I increased the distance from the tv another few inches each side (as far as i could go given the constraints of the room setup).
   
2. I switched the speakers.
   
3. I decreased the toe toe-in so that each back corner is within an inch and a half (its pretty damn close to straight).
   
4. I pulled the speakers forward so that they are 10.75" from the wall.
   
5. I re-checked the phase.

At this point I'm not sure what i need to do. I think the only options left are:

1. Move EVERYTHING out of the room and make it perfectly symmetrical.
   
2. Take off banana plugs and check to make sure that enough contact was made between wire and plug (although i was pretty damn sure that i did it right, since im anal),
   
3. Check my ears.
   
4. Change my receiver to see if its a bad/weak channel (is this possible?).
   
5. Maybe (though it seems it is) check to see if my center channel is perfectly straight so that its not the center channel (i guess since theres only one vs 2 its easier to get it off center).

Thoughts?! Maybe I'm just nuts lol.

audiocr381ve

scottyboy76 wrote: »

BTW my wife loves the color of your walls

I don't mean to diss on your wife's taste, but there's obviously a white balance issue with the camera (or the guy uses orange light bulbs).

tonyb

kazaam wrote: »

haha, thanks scott...i think its more of a mix between the warm lights and the wall color than the actual color itself. its more of a light color, kinda whitish/beige. Anyway, onto the changes...

1. I increased the distance from the tv another few inches each side (as far as i could go given the constraints of the room setup).
   
2. I switched the speakers.
   
3. I decreased the toe toe-in so that each back corner is within an inch and a half (its pretty damn close to straight).
   
4. I pulled the speakers forward so that they are 10.75" from the wall.
   
5. I re-checked the phase.

At this point I'm not sure what i need to do. I think the only options left are:

1. Move EVERYTHING out of the room and make it perfectly symmetrical.
   
2. Take off banana plugs and check to make sure that enough contact was made between wire and plug (although i was pretty damn sure that i did it right, since im anal),
   
3. Check my ears.
   
4. Change my receiver to see if its a bad/weak channel (is this possible?).
   
5. Maybe (though it seems it is) check to see if my center channel is perfectly straight so that its not the center channel (i guess since theres only one vs 2 its easier to get it off center).

Thoughts?! Maybe I'm just nuts lol.

All good steps you took, but.....did you adjust the speaker levels in the receivers menu ?

mrbigbluelight

^^^ What tonyb says.

Also, I'm sure you've checked to make sure that you're not in the wrong "mode": music vs game vs arena vs coliseum (or whatever Onkyo calls their enhanced modes now).