Time for a new hot water heater. Elec vs NG?

nadams

Went down in the basement tonight to see how much water was coming in (been raining like crazy here all day), and I happened to notice that the water heater is leaking. All the inlets/outlets on the top of the tank are corroded and look like they've been leaking for a while.

So, now I need to decide on a new WH. The current one is a Rheem, 40gal, 37,000btu, NG. I'm trying to decide between NG or electric. Last month, with hot water alone, my NG bill was about $20... But I don't know what the equivalent electric WH would cost to run. I do know they're much cheaper to purchase, and would be much easier to install by myself. I always get a little nervous working around NG lines, but I'm confident in my abilities as an amateur electrician

I've thought about a tankless, since this is a small house, with only one bathroom. The heater I have now was able to accomodate 4 back-to-back showers, along with some laundry, when I had friends living here. While that's not needed for me now, it is nice to be able to do laundry and take a shower at the same time without wanting for more heat. I'm not sure a tankless could accomplish that, and they're roughly 3x the cost.

Also, I'm pretty restricted in my purchasing options... basically I have to buy what I can find locally at Home Depot.

So, all that being said... any suggestions?

nadams

In case anyone is wondering, the Rheem I have now was manufactured in 07/91, so it's just a hair over 20 years old.

dkg999

They've made huge improvements in electric HWH's, but I think NG is still cheaper and quicker recovery. I would worry more about the changes to the water lines than with the gas coupling. You can use a flexible gas coupling so you don't have to redo the black gas pipe. They have flexible water couplings also, but I've seen lots of leakage issues with those in the past. YMMV. Maybe the newer flexible water couplings are better than the ones of several years ago.

I just installed a Rheem 40 gal power vent HWH that replaced an older NG HWH. PVC pipe through the side of the basement for the exhaust.

gdb

Sounds like you could drop down to a 30 gallon heater. Maybe compare the energy usage stickers to decide which type to buy. I'm stuck with electric ones which are eaten up by our spring water in a matter of 4 or 5 years time.:mad:

nadams

gdb wrote: »

Sounds like you could drop down to a 30 gallon heater. Maybe compare the energy usage stickers to decide which type to buy. I'm stuck with electric ones which are eaten up by our spring water in a matter of 4 or 5 years time.:mad:

Change out your anode rod more often, and I bet they'll last longer. Do it every two years if you have to... I'm pretty sure that's what did mine in, as I haven't changed it in the 4.5 years I've lived here.

Once the anode rod has completely deteriorated, the water attacks the tank instead.

gdb

Nope......if they go, they go. I usually get two heaters for the price of one when/if they leak during the 5yr. warranty period. PS don't sweat/ solder the male/female adapters while threaded into the heater, that'll melt the dip tube and the heat stop.:eek:(plastic)

jbooker82

Why not go to a Tank Less setup. That way you only heat the water when you need it.

dorokusai

That's exactly what happened to ours Nadams. Don't drop down, stick with the same size or go higher if it's a nominal cost. and you expect roomates in the future. $350-400 is not bad for something you'll have for 6-12 years.

We didn't have the option for NG so we went with another standard WH(Rheem 50 Gallon-6Year) over a tankless. The initial monetary output wasn't what we were ready to do and its only us in the house so there's no need for endless hot water. Tankless makes sense for a big family but for a couple, no point or savings. We've have friends over multiple times and never run out of hot water.

Ours went slowly, started to leak and then rusted up again and stopped for a couple months, then leaked again. I'd suggest getting it installed with a drip pan and hose/pipe leading to your sump area if you have one. We didn't have one when we moved in but do now. Even for a minor leak it is peace of mind.

mantis

jbooker82 wrote: »

Why not go to a Tank Less setup. That way you only heat the water when you need it.

Ditto , the very best way to supply your home with hot water. I have a plumber friend and he swears by these. When my Hot water heater goes , this is what I'm getting.

leadfoot1

I had a waterheater guy out last year to look at something and I had inquried about tankless. He told me a price ( $4k?? ) I can't remember but it was high. He said a lot of the expense was that the tankless required a bigger gas line then what my house has so my line would have to removed/replaced. Looks like I will be sticking with tanks.

dorokusai

You don't need a tankless water heater, period.

mantis

dorokusai wrote: »

You don't need a tankless water heater, period.

You save money using Tankless as it only runs when you need hot water. If you go away on Vacation for 2 weeks , your Hot water tank still keep X amount of water hot. The Tankless does not. It's way more efficient and you can have hot water for years , never a cold shower again. Never run out and have to wait for recovery because your wife used the Jaccuzzi and murdered all the hot water. No more Daughters taking long showers and running out the hot water. No more Dish washers , and cloth washers depleting the hot water just when you want to take a nice hot shower.

I'm assuming you don't have women in the house?

Tankless heaters are expensive to buy upfront but they save you money over the long haul. I suggest checking them out before you purchase another old fashion wasting money tank water heater.

billbillw

mantis wrote: »

You save money using Tankless as it only runs when you need hot water. If you go away on Vacation for 2 weeks , your Hot water tank still keep X amount of water hot. The Tankless does not. It's way more efficient and you can have hot water for years , never a cold shower again. Never run out and have to wait for recovery because your wife used the Jaccuzzi and murdered all the hot water. No more Daughters taking long showers and running out the hot water. No more Dish washers , and cloth washers depleting the hot water just when you want to take a nice hot shower.

I'm assuming you don't have women in the house?

Tankless heaters are expensive to buy upfront but they save you money over the long haul. I suggest checking them out before you purchase another old fashion wasting money tank water heater.

If you size it large enough, you never run out. We have a very large tank out in our garage. I think its 60 or 80gal. Full house with wife, two kids (who like to take baths), often have family visiting. Never ran out in the 7 years we've lived here, and that's with back to back showers (3-4 at a time), dishwasher, and laundry in the mix as well.

I also don't buy that it saves you much in the long run, unless you are talking a VERY long run.

Like Nadams, our gas bill in the summer is ~$20. That includes gas cooking and the actual heating of the water that we use. How much of that is actually energy lost to maintaining the water temp when not in use? Not much. Probably less than half of the bill. So $10 a month? $4k vs $500 for a heater? Even if we say its $200 a year wasted in keeping the water hot, that takes over 17 years to break even.

The only real benefit of tankless that I see is if you have a small unit close to each major use area (one for kitchen, one for bathrooms, etc) and that cuts the time waiting for the water to get hot, which uses less water. In areas where water is expensive (out west), that can add up over the years, but for most people in the East, it isn't significant. Our water bill is never more than $25 a month. How much of that is due to water running waiting for it to get hot? A dollar maybe? Higher in the winter I'm sure, but still...not much.

nadams

As much as I like the efficiency of a tankless, I really don't feel that I can justify the cost. That $20 last month included my being gone for a week and leaving the WH turned up. How much could my bill drop? By half? That's $10/mo... Also, with tankless, I believe you have to size your NG line up vs that for a tanked heater. I don't think it would be a problem, but I also run a large, inefficient NG forced air furnace in the winter, that just LOVES to suck up the gas.

So, tankless is off the table...

I guess I'm going to go with a comparably sized NG WH. I might bring in my Uncle to deal with the hookup, as he's a plumber.

steveinaz

I'm going tankless as soon as mine dies. These have been a mainstay in Europe for years. As long as you have gas, you have hot water---and you're not constantly keeping 40 gallons of water hot.

Tbone289

I've never understood why people want to heat hot water...

I think cold water heaters are the way to go. :biggrin:

Demiurge

jbooker82 wrote: »

Why not go to a Tank Less setup. That way you only heat the water when you need it.

Because after crunching the numbers they're not any more economical, contrary to what those who sell them will tell you.

billbillw wrote: »

I also don't buy that it saves you much in the long run, unless you are talking a VERY long run.

Right on, they don't.

tonyb

Lets also not forget that electricity prices are going to go up,not down, quicker than natural gas prices. The initial cost outlay for electric will far outweigh any monthly or yearly savings.

tonyb

steveinaz wrote: »

I'm going tankless as soon as mine dies. These have been a mainstay in Europe for years. As long as you have gas, you have hot water---and you're not constantly keeping 40 gallons of water hot.

Ever try taking a hot shower in europe Steve ? Lasts about 3 minutes. Lets not even discuss water pressure. Varies a tad from country to country.

.....and wtf is up with the water pressure out in Cali ? I had to hold my tongue out to catch it while out there the past few times.

jhw59

when you lose electricity, you have hot water with a gas heater.

Tbone289

I have a tankless heater in my current house. It was there when I purchased the house, so the initial cash outlay was not a concern for me. If I had to install a new water heater, I probably would buy a tank system because, like the others above, I don't believe tankless systems are more economical, even in the long run.

However, I do love my tankless system. Obviously it's more efficient to not keep a tank full of water hot when I don't need hot water. But, more importantly to me, I always have hot water.

Tbone289

jhw59 wrote: »

when you lose electricity, you have hot water with a gas heater.

...unless you have well water with an electric pump.

bobman1235

I love how people treat those tankless systems like they're a religion or something. There's nothing to 'believe." It DOES save money over a tank as far as the monthly bill goes; whether that amount of money is worth it to you based on the up-front cost is the only question.

My dad had one installed recently, and he got a really good deal on the installation thanks to it being part of a new construction / addition. The month-to-month savings are pretty significant for him. Obviously varies based on how much you use your hot water and how expensive gas is in your area.

disneyjoe7

Stay with gas what ever you do, gas is cheaper then electric.

nadams

Tbone289 wrote: »

...unless you have well water with an electric pump.

Which I don't .

Honestly, in the time I've lived in this town, I've never lost power... they are above ground lines, though, so it certainly is possible... just not a lot of trees around here.

So, I would assume the city water pumps have backup generators, but I guess I really don't know.

Thanks for the input, guys. I think I'll stick with a NG 40 gallon. Now to just get it and put it in before this one blows... The leaking water doesn't bother me, as it's in a dirt floor basement... but if one of the connections decides to really let loose, it'll be spraying all over the place, which is never good.

Tbone289

bobman1235 wrote: »

I love how people treat those tankless systems like they're a religion or something. There's nothing to 'believe."

I love how people disregard the upfront cost when calculating the economy of a system.

dkg999

With IP addressable controls on my thermostats and water heater I can use an app on my phone to turn up the heat or A/C and turn the water heater up as I'm on my way home from an extended out of town trip.

I would give tankless another few years to get some of the kinks worked out and for the prices to come down.

bobman1235

Tbone289 wrote: »

I love how people disregard the upfront cost when calculating the economy of a system.

I didn't disregard it, I acknowledged it outright. I love how people can't read.

dorokusai

Ok water nerds, chill out and stay focused on Nadams need for hot water for his endless book parties/orgies that he has on weekends.

bobman1235

Hot water and books don't mix :biggrin:

steveinaz

Meh...who needs hot water anyway? When I was kid.....................