Building My 2-Channel System..(cheap!)

pietro944

I mentioned in the speaker thread about a month ago,that I was planning on buiding a 2 channel system,inside of my existing 7.1 Ht set-up.

This is what I ordered from Hong Kong,this weekend.

1.Xiang Sheng DAC-02A,Vacuum Tube D/A Converter-Headphone Amplifier-Tube6N3(5670)$245
This is cool because you can switch between tube output or without the tube....also has USB input.
My Zhalou Dac I have has a left channel output problem,so this is the first thing I needed to replace.

2.Hlly AMKII Pre-Amplifier AD797 CS3310-$168
Nice little pre-amp in silver with a Remote!(vip).

3.HLLY TAMP-90,90w Class T-Amp,TA2022-$220
100w@40hms,60w@8ohms,D/R=102db
Efficiency:92%@88w-8ohms
87%@125w-4ohms
Over current/Over Temp protection
I like T-amps for their small size and efficiency.

4.I bought a Def Tech Pro 60 sub-$145
24db/slope high pass filter,5-way binding posts.
I will use this for music only...liked it better than the Polk subs...short money.I will use it speaker level with my M70's,now, until I get the new speakers.

The last buy will be the speakers...I've narrowed it down to:
Lsi'7's,Totems,Ascends or Magnepann....The Polk 7's and magnepan,are the only ones I can listen to prior to buying,so they're at the top of my list.
Need to keep the speaker budget around $600,but could wait a couple of months and go up to $1000.

I have a 7-channel 7X140w Pio Elite Receiver and AKG 701 Headphones,so I'm pretty well set,there.

So this is my project after lots and lots of research.
The new Dac+pre amp+T-amp for $616,including shipping,turned out pretty well

Any comments or advice would be gratly appreciated......thanks,peter

tonyb

I might add that in your speaker selection, be carefull, don't get something too hard to drive with that amp.

pietro944

tonyb wrote: »

I might add that in your speaker selection, be carefull, don't get something too hard to drive with that amp.

If I'm using the sub(speaker level)...Do you think it's sufficient to drive the Magnepan mmg's?

I have a small living room.....and I'm about 6-8 feet away from the speakers.....play jazz and especially vocals......not loud.....I'm intrigued by the maggies for music.

tonyb

The mmg's are probably the easiest of the Maggies to drive and given your situation, your probably ok, but in my honest opinion, a t-amp and maggies would be a bad marriage sound wise in my book. Thats just me though. Think about what a Maggie is known for, great highs, lucious mids, does a T-amp sound like it would enhance those characteristics ? Or would a tube amp be better to bring out those traits ? Sleep on it.

pietro944

tonyb wrote: »

The mmg's are probably the easiest of the Maggies to drive and given your situation, your probably ok, but in my honest opinion, a t-amp and maggies would be a bad marriage sound wise in my book. Thats just me though. Think about what a Maggie is known for, great highs, lucious mids, does a T-amp sound like it would enhance those characteristics ? Or would a tube amp be better to bring out those traits ? Sleep on it.

I understand what your saying and it is something to consider.......However,I'm from the school of thought that pre-amp and Dac have more to do with speaker sound quality,than a power amp.

As long as the amp is efficient....doesn't add coloration or noise......then,spending $400 or upwards on an amp,is just insane to me.
I know some of the fine polkies here,will swear that I'm insane(lol).......but I've been buying equipment for 45yrs and in my working heyday,I had Carver,phase linear,Linn speakers.....a lot of big time stuff.

However this is 2011,and I'll defy anyone(not you),who says a $400 amp gets you the musical qualities that compares to a $400-Dac/pre-amp combo........just because you have $1000+ speakers,as long as they are efficient,just give me enough power to drive them.....the real Nirvana is in the Dac and the other electronics,not megawatt amps.......a seperate amp to drive M70's or M60's at an 8 ohm load.....not me,brother.....Tube Dacs,Tube buffers,Tube pre-amps,that's the way to go......tell me what op amp is in your Dac,not what expensive power amp you have.

Sacreligous?.....probably,but that's my humble opinion.

nooshinjohn

Go Maggie and don't look back. I am listening to my new "reference" LP now and the experience is pure magic. Alan Parsons Project's "I-Robot"... Damn this sounds GOOD!

pietro944

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Go Maggie and don't look back. I am listening to my new "reference" LP now and the experience is pure magic. Alan Parsons Project's "I-Robot"... Damn this sounds GOOD!

G-damn.....you're giving me a "semi"(at 61yrs old,that's a good thing!).....are you using a sub with the maggies?

nooshinjohn

pietro944 wrote: »

G-damn.....you're giving me a "semi"(at 61yrs old,that's a good thing!).....are you using a sub with the maggies?

A cheap Energy Sub-10 right now, but it is barely there in terms of volume. I have it just loud enough to give some definition to the bottom end.

You are very wrong about amps BTW. Quality in is quality out and that is true for every aspect of the system. Next month, after a year of planning and hard work, my DIY 450wpc vacuum tube mono's will be plugged in for the very first time...

kawizx9r

I didn't see cables anywhere in that list.

IMO cables are just as important as any other component in your system. I consider them to be 'gear' as well.

pietro944

nooshinjohn wrote: »

A cheap Energy Sub-10 right now, but it is barely there in terms of volume. I have it just loud enough to give some definition to the bottom end.

You are very wrong about amps BTW. Quality in is quality out and that is true for every aspect of the system. Next month, after a year of planning and hard work, my DIY 450wpc vacuum tube mono's will be plugged in for the very first time...

I agree with quality....just not overly expensive WPC.....put the money into a tube Dac and you'll never notice any difference with mono amps

kawizx9r

pietro944 wrote: »

I agree with quality....just not overly expensive WPC.....put the money into a tube Dac and you'll never notice any difference with mono amps

I beg to differ.

It's also not about WPC but instead high-current.

I used to own Maggies and I ran them through several different amps before deciding on what worked best for me; a Moscode 300 overhauled completely by Stephen Sank.

Even at low volumes, a quality sounding amp yields a great difference.

pietro944

kawizx9r wrote: »

I didn't see cables anywhere in that list.

IMO cables are just as important as any other component in your system. I consider them to be 'gear' as well.

Nope...not me...I have some nice voodoo and canare cables....they don't break the bank and they are terrific.....do a blind test,one day,with $50 cables and $200 cables.....I did it with friends and no one could tell the difference.....I'm not a luddite,I just don't believe the hype.

nooshinjohn

Who's got the popcorn popping... I'll grab the beer as this is gonna get good.:biggrin:

dcmartinpc

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Who's got the popcorn popping... I'll grab the beer as this is gonna get good.:biggrin:

I've had popcorn on since post 5. Almost done

I'll check on the fireworks in the morning, need to go to sleep!

Don

kawizx9r

pietro944 wrote: »

Nope...not me...I have some nice voodoo and canare cables....they don't break the bank and they are terrific.....do a blind test,one day,with $50 cables and $200 cables.....I did it with friends and no one could tell the difference.....I'm not a luddite,I just don't believe the hype.

Canare's good stuff and as for voodoo well, I've never tried their product so I can't comment on it.

As far as hearing differences, some of us can and some of us can't so I won't discredit you or your friends there. We all hear differently, we all listen to different types of music, we all have different acoustical environments, and we all listen to music in our own way.

Anyway, I'm a firm believer that cables do indeed make a difference (as well as amps). Don't take me for someone that's willing to drop $2k on a single set of interconnects though....I don't think it's ridiculous but it wouldn't make sense in my situation, but I also wouldn't call it hype.

Just my .02

PS If it sounds good to you, then good on ya.

pietro944

kawizx9r wrote: »

I beg to differ.

It's also not about WPC but instead high-current.

I used to own Maggies and I ran them through several different amps before deciding on what worked best for me; a Moscode 300 overhauled completely by Stephen Sank.

Even at low volumes, a quality sounding amp yields a great difference.

I still disagree......I can also run the maggies with...get ready.....A Crown Pro-Amp.....I paid $125 for the Crown-800CSL.....enormous power...300wpc@8ohms,425@4ohms....built like a tank.....noisy?..uh..uh......I put it 4 feet behind my subwoofer and never heard the fan......I defy you to tell me that I'm using a pro-amp without looking.

nooshinjohn

umm, yeah man, good luck with that. Looks like Audioholics lost one of their inmates again.

You can use a hammer to get sound out of a Strativarius too, but why would you?

pietro944

kawizx9r wrote: »

Canare's good stuff and as for voodoo well, I've never tried their product so I can't comment on it.

As far as hearing differences, some of us can and some of us can't so I won't discredit you or your friends there. We all hear differently, we all listen to different types of music, we all have different acoustical environments, and we all listen to music in our own way.

Anyway, I'm a firm believer that cables do indeed make a difference (as well as amps). Don't take me for someone that's willing to drop $2k on a single set of interconnects though....I don't think it's ridiculous but it wouldn't make sense in my situation, but I also wouldn't call it hype.

Just my .02

PS If it sounds good to you, then good on ya.

No,I respect that....I mean hype as a cost/value factor....are $200 cables 4 times better than $50 ones?......No...the difference is minimal at best.But if another person can hear that difference,then they should go for it....I would never denigrate them for that.....My rants in this thread are just philosophical to me,not specifically against anyone else.

pietro944

nooshinjohn wrote: »

umm, yeah man, good luck with that. Looks like Audioholics lost one of their inmates again.

You can use a hammer to get sound out of a Strativarius too, but why would you?

Now,Now....no reason to get personal...it's just a difference of opinion....BTW,you've used that Audioholics smear,before:eek:

kawizx9r

pietro944 wrote: »

I still disagree......I can also run the maggies with...get ready.....A Crown Pro-Amp.....I paid $125 for the Crown-800CSL.....enormous power...300wpc@8ohms,425@4ohms....built like a tank.....noisy?..uh..uh......I put it 4 feet behind my subwoofer and never heard the fan......I defy you to tell me that I'm using a pro-amp without looking.

If they were on the Maggie's I owned then yeah I'd be able to tell.

I was able to tell the difference between a Parasound (non-halo, forget the model #), an Adcom 555, and Moscode 300.

The Moscode just had more 'oomph' and dynamics throughout the spectrum. The rest sounded a bit sterile as far as I can remember compared to the Moscode (but not sterile in general, I like Parasound).

I'll agree to disagree, no need to debate about crap. If it sounds good to you, then good on ya. As for me, I prefer a quality amp over a pro-amp and quality cables that compliment my components.

nooshinjohn

kawizx9r wrote: »

If they were on the Maggie's I owned then yeah I'd be able to tell.

I was able to tell the difference between a Parasound (non-halo, forget the model #), an Adcom 555, and Moscode 300.

The Moscode just had more 'oomph' and dynamics throughout the spectrum. The rest sounded a bit sterile as far as I can remember compared to the Moscode (but not sterile in general, I like Parasound).

I'll agree to disagree, no need to debate about crap. If it sounds good to you, then good on ya. As for me, I prefer a quality amp over a pro-amp and quality cables that compliment my components.

Agreed 100%

pietro944

kawizx9r wrote: »

If they were on the Maggie's I owned then yeah I'd be able to tell.

I was able to tell the difference between a Parasound (non-halo, forget the model #), an Adcom 555, and Moscode 300.

The Moscode just had more 'oomph' and dynamics throughout the spectrum. The rest sounded a bit sterile as far as I can remember compared to the Moscode (but not sterile in general, I like Parasound).

I'll agree to disagree, no need to debate about crap. If it sounds good to you, then good on ya. As for me, I prefer a quality amp over a pro-amp and quality cables that compliment my components.

As I do ,with the quality of my Dac and pre-amp

madmax

pietro944 wrote: »

However,I'm from the school of thought that pre-amp and Dac have more to do with speaker sound quality,than a power amp.

The t-amp may sound OK (strong supporter of t-amps in some systems). However,I have proven many times your above statment is incorrect. The amplifier has just as much impact. I think one thing you may have missed in your research is that you should pick out your speaker first then pick the appropriate amplifier. Even at that you may have to try several to get the best sound. Don't get me wrong, it may be a $50 hand me down or a very expensive one, sound doesn't care about cost.
madmax

pietro944

madmax wrote: »

The t-amp may sound OK (strong supporter of t-amps in some systems). However,I have proven many times your above statment is incorrect. The amplifier has just as much impact. I think one thing you may have missed in your research is that you should pick out your speaker first then pick the appropriate amplifier. Even at that you may have to try several to get the best sound. Don't get me wrong, it may be a $50 hand me down or a very expensive one, sound doesn't care about cost.
madmax

Thanks for your input,madmax.....for financial reasons,I couldn't pick out the speakers and amp,first(I don't drive,so I can't do much pre-listening,b-4 purchasing).To me,the most important item was the new tube Dac,so that is what I researched,first.

The amp will always be the last in the chain for me.I can try the T-amp,the amps in the Elite recvr.,or even the Crown amp.....while I'm breaking in the new speakers........I can and will try a better quality amp,if necessary,but I've seen no data that changes my philosophy that amps and cables are significantly higher on the chain than Dacs and pre-amps....thanks,peter

dcmartinpc

pietro944 wrote: »

Thanks for your input,madmax.....for financial reasons,I couldn't pick out the speakers and amp,first(I don't drive,so I can't do much pre-listening,b-4 purchasing).To me,the most important item was the new tube Dac,so that is what I researched,first.

The amp will always be the last in the chain for me.I can try the T-amp,the amps in the Elite recvr.,or even the Crown amp.....while I'm breaking in the new speakers........I can and will try a better quality amp,if necessary,but I've seen no data that changes my philosophy that amps and cables are significantly higher on the chain than Dacs and pre-amps....thanks,peter

Here is where I land. I am not saying cables and amps are HIGHER on the food chain than dacs and preamps. I would just say they are on an even playing field It is about synergy. It is possible to spend tens of thousands of dollars and have something that sounds like crap because the system is not synergistic. I think all components in a system need to be of similar caliber and "pedigree" if you will. They need to be matched to each other to meet the technical needs of the other devices/speakers they are connected to. It is ALL important.

Don

tonyb

Pietro- Knock your socks off bro, if that floats your boat. Everyones journey is different in this hobby. If you don't like the sound your getting though, don't blame the speakers. I'm from the camp that everything matters in the chain. I understand you may be on a budget, cool, we all are, just don't expect miracles from that particular combo of associated gear is all I'm saying.

pietro944

dcmartinpc wrote: »

Here is where I land. I am not saying cables and amps are HIGHER on the food chain than dacs and preamps. I would just say they are on an even playing field It is about synergy. It is possible to spend tens of thousands of dollars and have something that sounds like crap because the system is not synergistic. I think all components in a system need to be of similar caliber and "pedigree" if you will. They need to be matched to each other to meet the technical needs of the other devices/speakers they are connected to. It is ALL important.

Don

Synergy?....Don....Ferrari's,yes......cables and amps....no.I believe in quality of construction and value-based purchases......the rest is just "mythitism"(sic?).......pedigree screams hype to me.This is why audiophiles turn up their noses at non-us made speakers and electronics from Asia.
Real,value-based,quality is everywhere.....I search for it,until I find it...and then I get it.I love to tweak my system,but you have to have a cost/value governor......There IS a food chain......cables and amps are not as important as Dacs,Tubes and pre-amps.....newbies,especially,are chasing something that doesn't exist,spending their money on the wrong things.......It's the young people,new to the world of audio.I'm concerned about......Establish a pecking order and leave cables and amps for last....This is my belief after a lifetime of experience and I'm sticking to it.....or not(lol).

BTW.....I'm mailing your missing Bocelli cd out this afternoon....mea culpa...peter

dcmartinpc

pietro944 wrote: »

Synergy?....Don....Ferrari's,yes......cables and amps....no.I believe in quality of construction and value-based purchases......the rest is just "mythitism"(sic?).......pedigree screams hype to me.This is why audiophiles turn up their noses at non-us made speakers and electronics from Asia.
Real,value-based,quality is everywhere.....I search for it,until I find it...and then I get it.I love to tweak my system,but you have to have a cost/value governor......There IS a food chain......cables and amps are not as important as Dacs,Tubes and pre-amps.....newbies,especially,are chasing something that doesn't exist,spending their money on the wrong things.......It's the young people,new to the world of audio.I'm concerned about......Establish a pecking order and leave cables and amps for last....This is my belief after a lifetime of experience and I'm sticking to it.....or not(lol).

BTW.....I'm mailing your missing Bocelli cd out this afternoon....mea culpa...peter

Thanks for the CD!

The word pedigree was just chosen as a way of communicating a certain standard and proven history of build quality. Not anything related to hype. Just quality. I agree that DACs and Preamps are important. But so are other components. With that...

You are entitled %100 to your opinion. I wish you the best of luck with your new system and I hope that it fully meets your expectations.

Enjoy the music!

Don

pietro944

tonyb wrote: »

Pietro- Knock your socks off bro, if that floats your boat. Everyones journey is different in this hobby. If you don't like the sound your getting though, don't blame the speakers. I'm from the camp that everything matters in the chain. I understand you may be on a budget, cool, we all are, just don't expect miracles from that particular combo of associated gear is all I'm saying.

I absolutely agree that I would probably knee-jerk,by blaming the speakers....However,being a person of modicum intelligence,I would then seek differing opinions and adjust,accordingly....What I WON'T do,is throw the baby out,with the bath water.....and start buying hyper-priced,amps and cables....not important,imho.

pietro944

dcmartinpc wrote: »

Thanks for the CD!

The word pedigree was just chosen as a way of communicating a certain standard and proven history of build quality. Not anything related to hype. Just quality. I agree that DACs and Preamps are important. But so are other components. With that...

You are entitled %100 to your opinion. I wish you the best of luck with your new system and I hope that it fully meets your expectations.

Enjoy the music!

Don

Thanks,Don.....This is what the journey is all about for me....the endless search for the music.In all this talk,still nothing compares to my listening to a classical piece on my AKG 701's thru my Dac...simple, elegant....almost perfect:cool:

madmax

pietro944 wrote: »

I believe in quality of construction and value-based purchases......the rest is just "mythitism"(sic?).......pedigree screams hype to me.This is why audiophiles turn up their noses at non-us made speakers and electronics from Asia.

You have been mislead grasshopper. You have been lead to believe that for people to "think" it is of quality it must be made in the US, have a high price tag and be made by a company with a well known name. Who have you been listening to? You might want to part ways with them and learn the truth.