Reached the end of Tweak Road?
drumminman
Posts: 3,396
I made it! :eek:
Listening to my 2.3TL's with all the upgrades, I can't imagine how they can possibly sound any better :biggrin: The sound quality is simply stunning. I've put some coin and time into them, but their true potential has now been realized
All the shortcomings I perceived when I first got them home and powered them up have been resolved - I think I've reached the end of tweak road :cool:
Unless DK comes up with something else
Listening to my 2.3TL's with all the upgrades, I can't imagine how they can possibly sound any better :biggrin: The sound quality is simply stunning. I've put some coin and time into them, but their true potential has now been realized
All the shortcomings I perceived when I first got them home and powered them up have been resolved - I think I've reached the end of tweak road :cool:
Unless DK comes up with something else
"Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
Post edited by drumminman on
Comments
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So what all have you done?Turntable: Empire 208
Arm: Rega 300
Cart: Shelter 501 III
Phono Pre: Aural Thrills
Digital: Pioneer DV-79ai
Pre: Conrad Johnson ET3 SE
Amp: Conrad Johnson Evolution 2000
Cables: Cardas Neutral Reference
Speakers: SDA 2.3TL, heavily modified -
Congrats drummin, but I bet you will get bored and find a new project soon.
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So what all have you done?
The list:
1- Replaced all tweeters with RD-0198
2- replaced all caps and resistors with sonicaps and mills; caps dampened with mortite.
3- dynamatted mw and pr frames
4- for all drivers installed Hurricane nuts; for mw's and pr's used 8-3 2socket head cap screws; for tweeters used 8-32 oval head phillips screws
5- JB Welded magnets for all mw's
6- Installed Solen 16mH 10 awg inductors; other inductors left stock
7- installed armaflex as speaker gaskets for all drivers
8- installed Cardas binding post in place of pin blade; built new 12 awg speaker IC cable with pure copper gold plated spades
9- installed high resolution speaker cable filters on both amp and speaker ends (built for previous set up - they work great in this app)
10- applied Walker SST to all push on speaker connections
I think that's it. There is one more tweak I want to do - spikes for the speakers.
All this cost more than what I paid for the speakers. But I had such fun doing it, and I now have speakers that I can live with for a very long time.
These SDA's have so much performance potential, until you do some of these upgrades you have no idea how good they can sound. Right now I'm pushing them with around 200 wpc.
Wonder what would be the effect of doubling the power?"Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
No Larry's rings ??engtaz
I love how music can brighten up a bad day. -
That's a pretty impressive list, I'd like to hear those.Thorens TD125MKII, SME3009,Shure V15/ Teac V-8000S, Denon DN-790R cass, Teac 3340 RtR decks, Onix CD2...Sumo Electra Plus pre>SAE A1001 amp>Martin Logan Summit's
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These SDA's have so much performance potential, until you do some of these upgrades you have no idea how good they can sound.
Worth repeating.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
drumminman wrote: »I think I've reached the end of tweak road :cool:
For an audiophile, the tweak road ends only when money runs out or at death.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
drumminman wrote: »The list:
1- Replaced all tweeters with RD-0198
2- replaced all caps and resistors with sonicaps and mills; caps dampened with mortite.
3- dynamatted mw and pr frames
4- for all drivers installed Hurricane nuts; for mw's and pr's used 8-3 2socket head cap screws; for tweeters used 8-32 oval head phillips screws
5- JB Welded magnets for all mw's
6- Installed Solen 16mH 10 awg inductors; other inductors left stock
7- installed armaflex as speaker gaskets for all drivers
8- installed Cardas binding post in place of pin blade; built new 12 awg speaker IC cable with pure copper gold plated spades
9- installed high resolution speaker cable filters on both amp and speaker ends (built for previous set up - they work great in this app)
10- applied Walker SST to all push on speaker connections
I think that's it. There is one more tweak I want to do - spikes for the speakers.
All this cost more than what I paid for the speakers. But I had such fun doing it, and I now have speakers that I can live with for a very long time.
These SDA's have so much performance potential, until you do some of these upgrades you have no idea how good they can sound. Right now I'm pushing them with around 200 wpc.
Wonder what would be the effect of doubling the power?
I agree that the SDA's have great potential depending on gear and upgrades of coarse. Let me ask you this though, if you added up the costs of all those upgrades, plus your time at say a paltry 10$ an hour, how much would you say you have invested in those babies plus the purchase price ? Not being a smart ****, just curious. To me,and purely just my opinion, tweeks only go so far before the ratio between the costs and upgrading the speaker alltogether becomes very close.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
It may not be the most cost effective from a wallet standpoint, but I imagine the sense of satisfaction from maximizing the speakers potential and having done it himself would be well worth it.2-ch System: Parasound P/LD 2000 pre, Parasound HCA-1000 amp, Parasound T/DQ Tuner, Phase Technology PC-100 Tower speakers, Technics SL-1600 Turntable, Denon 2910 SACD/CD player, Peachtree DAC iT and X1asynchorus USB converter, HSU VTF-3 subwoofer.
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Let me ask you this though, if you added up the costs of all those upgrades, plus your time at say a paltry 10$ an hour, how much would you say you have invested in those babies plus the purchase price ? Not being a smart ****, just curious.
This is a very reasonable question. I paid $2550 for a pair of one-owner, near mint condition condition SDA SRS 1.2TL's in 2001, plus $197.70 for shipping. To date, I have invested $3,607.63 in extensive modifications which have all been documented on this forum in various threads and summarized in the System Showcase. Therefore, my total investment to date is $6,355.33.
I have spent 65 hours doing modifications. I would pay myself at least $25 an hour, so my labor cost has been $1,625. This, added to the cost of acquisition and modifications comes to $7,980.33. For reference, the 1.2TL's $3400 1989 retail price equates to $6,264 in 2011 dollars.To me,and purely just my opinion, tweaks only go so far before the ratio between the costs and upgrading the speaker alltogether becomes very close.
This depends on what is important to the listener. In some cases, all available "upgrade" speakers or electronic items may lack an important feature or performance attribute. In such cases, tweaking, if possible, is the only satisfying alternative.
With my last two channel system upgrade (discussed here), which was quite significant, I fully expected that the upgrades in electronics and cables would outgrow, outclass and outshine my modified SDA SRS 1.2TL's. On the contrary, the sound from the 1.2TL's has kept getting "better" with continuous refinements in associated electronics and performance tweaks.
What do I mean by "better"? I mean better in the stereophonic reproduction attributes that are important to me: sound stage size, image weight, image clarity and image stability. Of course, there are speaker designs that outperform the 1.2TL's in some areas such as speed, detail, etc., but the performance gains I would receive would not adequately compensate me for the losses I would incur in imaging properties. For reference, a couple of impressive sounding speakers I have auditioned, but would not purchase (due to stereophonic performance penalties) are the Dunlavy SC-VI ($35,000/pair) and the B&W 802D ($15,000/pair). Of course, those auditions weren't side-by-side comparisons in the same room with the same electronics, but I know when something sounds and feels better than what I have.
Stereo is (for me) primarily about creating a three dimensional illusion of a music performance. In my over 25 years of active participation in this hobby, I have not found another loudspeaker that has outperformed SDA's in this regard. When I consider the heightened true stereo performance of modified SDA's paired with high performance electronics and cables, I find them to be in a class by themselves. However, it is up to the individual to determine whether this class is one worth enrolling in. SDA's, like college, aren't for everyone.
Here is another thread on this subject you may find interesting: People Who Love Big SDA's Upgrade To What?.It may not be the most cost effective from a wallet standpoint, but I imagine the sense of satisfaction from maximizing the speakers potential and having done it himself would be well worth it.
This wasn't/isn't true in my case. I'd much prefer to buy something that is already the way I want it than to have to modify and/or tweak it.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Fair enough DK, let me add, just going off the link to the SDA thread you posted, that I too have owned many sda speakers, including the srt's. While they are capable of alot of things, I've found that I was trading off the other way around....and didn't realize it untill I upgraded. Stock form I'm talkin fwiw. Pound for pound though, you'd be hard pressed to get the SQ from any other speaker in that price range. Srt's for example, in their day, were not a cheap speaker. In todays dollars, they would have pushed 20 g's. I can think of quite a few speakers in that price range today I'd rather have.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not knockin' tweeks. Just curious as to what point do you stop sinking the coin into a piece of gear,or speakers, before you say " Hey, ya know there's some other xyz brand that maybe better for the same coinage." Emotional attachments aside of coarse.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
I have spent 65 hours doing modifications. I would pay myself at least $25 an hour, so my labor cost has been $1,625. This, added to the cost of acquisition and modifications comes to $7,980.33. For reference, the 1.2TL's $3400 1989 retail price equates to $6,264 in 2011 dollars.
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So if someone were to put $8,000 in your hands would you part with them?
JoeAmplifiers: 1-SAE Mark IV, 4-SAE 2400, 1-SAE 2500, 2-SAE 2600, 1-Buttkicker BKA 1000N w/2-tactile transducers. Sources: Sony BDP CX7000es, Sony CX300/CX400/CX450/CX455, SAE 8000 tuner, Akai 4000D R2R, Technics 1100A TT, Epson 8500UB with Carada 100". Speakers:Polk SDA SRS, 3.1TL, FXi5, FXi3, 2-SVS 20-29, Yamaha, SVS center sub. Power:2-Monster HTS3500, Furman M-8D & RR16 Plus. 2-SAE 4000 X-overs, SAE 5000a noise reduction, MSB Link DAC III, MSB Powerbase, Behringer 2496, Monarchy DIP 24/96. -
Srt's for example, in their day, were not a cheap speaker. In todays dollars, they would have pushed 20 g's. I can think of quite a few speakers in that price range today I'd rather have.
Such as...and why?Don't get me wrong, I'm not knockin' tweeks. Just curious as to what point do you stop sinking the coin into a piece of gear,or speakers, before you say " Hey, ya know there's some other xyz brand that maybe better for the same coinage."
I did directly address this in my reply:DarqueKnight wrote: »This depends on what is important to the listener. In some cases, all available "upgrade" speakers or electronic items may lack an important feature or performance attribute. In such cases, tweaking, if possible, is the only satisfying alternative.Emotional attachments aside of coarse.
I know there are people who form sentimental emotional attachments to gear, but I'm not one of them. When I think of other owners (F1nut, Janne) of highly tweaked large SDA's which are used with high end, high performance electronics, I don't recall any sentimental, emotional attachment on their part.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
joeparaski wrote: »So if someone were to put $8,000 in your hands would you part with them?
No.
But...let's assume that I would take the cash. What replacement speaker would you suggest and why would it be better (not just different)?
Bear in mind that I recently spent a few hours listening to the following speakers:
B&W 802D ($15,000/pair),
driven by the following electronics:
McIntosh MC275 tube power amps in mono mode (150 wpc) ($9,000/pair),
McIntosh C2300 tube preamp ($6,000),
McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player ($4,500),
Cables were Transparent (didn't get the model #'s).
It was a fine sounding system in every respect. The 802D's are well within the price range of what I am able and willing to pay for a pair of high performance loudspeakers, but they didn't give me anywhere near the sound stage sensations and dimensions, plus emotional thrills, that I get at home...with my true stereo SDA's.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
No Larry's rings ??
Though I haven't used Larry's Rings, Hurricane nuts (threaded metal inserts) have a similar effect. That is, they allow the drivers to be more solidly coupled to the front baffle which creates a better seal, and allows better bass and imaging."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
I agree that the SDA's have great potential depending on gear and upgrades of coarse. Let me ask you this though, if you added up the costs of all those upgrades, plus your time at say a paltry 10$ an hour, how much would you say you have invested in those babies plus the purchase price ? Not being a smart ****, just curious. To me,and purely just my opinion, tweeks only go so far before the ratio between the costs and upgrading the speaker alltogether becomes very close.
Aaaah, the philosophy of tweaking. It's a good subject, and one I've thought alot about.
With my RTA 12C's, which I purchased new in 1984 for $960, I went back and forth for a little while over whether or not I should sink more money into them. They're 27 years old and in whatever depreciation scheme you care to use, they've been fully depreciated cost wise for some time. IOW, their value was pretty low.
As far as using them though they were still quite functional. As the only owner I knew they had been well cared for. So then the question becomes the cost of the tweaks.
I put around $500 into them (two crossovers per speaker!). Since the speakers had little value before the tweaks the question for me is what quality of speakers could I buy with the tweak money, and how would they compare to my tweaked 12C's?
In all honesty, I couldn't answer this until I completed the project so there was risk involved. I could put the time and money into them and wind up with a somewhat less than satisfying speaker compare to what I could buy with that $500. But this is also a hobby, and tweaking for me is fun! Turned out the results were what I was hoping for - even better than I was hoping for.
As to the 2.3TL's, there was less of a risk factor because so many have gone before me and performed some or all of these tweaks, and then written about them. But there were still some what if moments. . . .
What if. . .I buy those big **** Solens, and they don't really do much?
What if. . .I spend money on the sonicaps and mills and the improvement is slight to none?
What if. . . I buy the RD0-198's and I don't like them?
And so forth. After doing lots of reading here I found enough descriptive comments for these, and some objective analysis especially form DK, that I decided I needed to go ahead.
I bought the speakers for $900, and have spent in the neighborhood of $1200 on parts. I don't count my time because I have such fun doing projects like this. So what I have is $2100 in them. What other speakers can I buy for that?
Don't really know as I don't have the time to search out audio stores and do critical listening to other systems. What I do know is this is the best my system has ever sounded.
To me almost any well designed and executed speaker will reproduce sound clearly, distinctly, with good bass, mid range and treble, and with good imaging. What these speakers do now that I've never had before is create a true 3D soundstage. They convey the emotion of the performance and, on many recordings, literally place the listener in the middle of the stage around 5-10 rows back.
I find that I don't want to turn the volume down, or turn off the system. They just so damned good, and the sound so enveloping and sweet!
So, is all this worth it? For me, it's an unequivocal yes.
Now that's cool! ! ! :cool:"Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
Let us step back and think about this on a smaller scale like 2b's or CRS's.
I have had both and have done every tweak to each of them save for Larry's rings.
If we go by my purchase price they would look something like this:
SDA 2b Speakers 200.00
TL Crossover mod caps resistors etc. 350.00
RD-0198 tweeter x2 = 100.00
new foam and T-nuts 30.00
my time say 10hrs at 25.00 = 250.00
Total 930.00
I dare someone to find a speaker on the market that come even close to the sound of a pair of 2b's with the TL mod for a grand. Heck you couldn't do it for 5 grand. -
drumminman-
Congrats on seeing this project through to the end! There is something rewarding about putting in all the research, time, and energy into a project like this as opposed to buying a new pair and being done. There is also something inherently rewarding about listening to SDA's, because there is no speaker in the world that sounds like them.:biggrin:
That being said... YOU AREN'T DONE YET!!!
Sorry for yelling, and I know you mentioned that are you are going to do it, but...
You have to spike'em.
Adding good spikes, especially if your speakers are on carpet, is not a minor tweak.
Some of these mods compound exponentially on each other, and that is definitely the case with your hurricane nuts, armaflex gaskets, dynamatted mw's and pr's, and spikes. I would expect that there will be more of an improvement from adding spikes to your speakers than there would be from spiking a pair of stock speakers. The lengths you've gone to to improve the dampening and coupling of your drivers will let the spikes do their job better.
Cheers, man, and enjoy your well-deserved new toys!2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
Heck you couldn't do it for 5 grand.
Magnepan 3.7's.:cool:
They're a very different sounding speaker, but Magnepan does offer a great bang for your buck... and 5 grand is enough buck to get you a lot of bang.2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
falconcry72 wrote: »Magnepan 3.7's.:cool:
They're a very different sounding speaker, but Magnepan does offer a great bang for your buck... and 5 grand is enough buck to get you a lot of bang.
Heard them and the do image well but I prefer the solid bass I get from the SDA's more.
The only electro's I have ever liked were Apogee's. -
I think I'm becoming a bit of a SDA snob, but since I've also done the Tl upgrade on my CRS+, $8000 won't cut it for me. I value the 3 dimensional sound stage, and this 3d image is not dependent on what fad is happening in the 3d world as it is for TV's right now. For me, the question is what do I get that I don't get now in a much more expensive speaker, and so then what costs are appropriate to get the tweak potential out of my speakers. I'm on a tight leash budget, luckily my speaker is a CRS+ and not the big SDA. I don't have Larry's rings yet, for some reason I haven't gotten a response yet. I haven't spiked my speaker stand, but I'll start another thread with that question, as I have done lots of research, and I will only listen to Polk forum members who know what they are talking about. I did get my propeller shop guy to weld me to spec (mostly) the CRS stands from scrap boatyard aluminum. Even my wife is shocked at how much better they sound just from the stand change. So far every tweak has been monumental, life changing, and just plain wonderful.
I do have sentimental value to my speakers, mainly because I have only kept just a few items over the years that have survived fires, floods, hurricanes, college friends, dogs, cats, parties, ex girlfriends and one ex wife. I bought these new, and will not get rid of them, even if I got a bigger SDA. I'm still burning these in, but the clarity, the horns, the singing, all are so superb with a complete 3d quality. Stereo played through SDA is not left and right 2d, it is all a spacious stage. I know there are great speakers out there, and I would love to hear them all, but I would have to sit my butt on these CRS+ and know they aren't going anywhere. They are great for music as well as home theater.
Pete Townsend doesn't think of guitars as anything more than wood. He doesn't have attachments to his guitars, but many others do, such as BB King for his guitar Lucille.
My speakers don't have a name, but after these mods, I think they deserve one.
The question of value versus dollars is certainly more than valid. I got my dog for $40 at the SPCA, but I have put thousands into upgrading him through good food, expensive weekly training, trips, boarding, vet mishaps and regular visits, and so on.
I would would spend the money in a heartbeat on both the speakers and the dog. Not in that order, but it's close.
What the heck are speaker wire filters?Polk Audio SDA CRS+ crossover 4.1TL by Trey/VR3 (Rings and custom stand by Larry)-Polk Audio SDA SRS2 crossovers by Trey/VR3Parasound HCA1500aYamaha rxa-3070 with musicast-Celestion SL6S presence,- sl9 surround backNHTsuper1's surroundMagnepan SMGParasound 1500pre- Sofia "Baby" tube amp - Monitor Audio Silver RX2 Marantz 2230/B&Kst140Technics 1200mk2 Gamertag: IslandBerserker I am but a infinitesimally small point meeting the line of infinity in the SDA universe -
Your not done yet!!
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falconcry72 wrote: »drumminman-
Congrats on seeing this project through to the end! There is something rewarding about putting in all the research, time, and energy into a project like this as opposed to buying a new pair and being done. There is also something inherently rewarding about listening to SDA's, because there is no speaker in the world that sounds like them.:biggrin:
That being said... YOU AREN'T DONE YET!!!
Sorry for yelling, and I know you mentioned that are you are going to do it, but...
You have to spike'em.
Adding good spikes, especially if your speakers are on carpet, is not a minor tweak.
Some of these mods compound exponentially on each other, and that is definitely the case with your hurricane nuts, armaflex gaskets, dynamatted mw's and pr's, and spikes. I would expect that there will be more of an improvement from adding spikes to your speakers than there would be from spiking a pair of stock speakers. The lengths you've gone to to improve the dampening and coupling of your drivers will let the spikes do their job better.
Cheers, man, and enjoy your well-deserved new toys!
Thanks for the recognition and kind words F72. You're right, there's lots of satisfaction from doing the research, ordering all the parts and building/adapting/making everything.
But the best satisfaction is having a listen in the sweet spot
And you're right about spikes - they're the final tweak. . . . . . .
errr, until someone comes up with something else"Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
What the heck are speaker wire filters?
They're an R-C array in cascading values designed to stop RF ringing on speaker cables.
I've used them on two different sets of speakers now, and they make a huge difference. A lot of grunge rides on the speaker cables, which these are designed to remove. In fact I didn't realize it was there until it was gone. The effect is that they smooth out the highs, and tighten up the mid range and bass noticeably. One of the best tweaks I've done.
You build a filter and attach to each speaker output on the amp, and to each speaker binding post. It costs around $20 each to build them the way I did it. I didn't use some of the esoteric parts recommended in the instructions and mine still work great.
I got the tutorial off another forum in pdf. If you pm me your email address I'll be happy to send it."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer