Rolling Power Tubes

heiney9

The Siemens he is selling are relabeled, they are not the typical Siemens EL34s which were made in East Germany at the RFT Funkwerk Plant. The RFT made Siemens have stapled plates, two large heat wings and usually double O getters.

The Siemens the British guy is selling are E34L's as described in the review. I would cut and paste but it won't allow me. They are fo European manufacture and similar to the M.O.V. (Marconi Osram Valve) KT77 and have the highest plate dissipation at 30watts, special gold grid and extra thick glass. Some call it an EL34 on steroids.

I know this because I bought a pair thinking I might have "lucked" into some sleeper Mullards (because some Mullard made EL34's have Siemens labels as well) but they weren't so I had to dig around on the internet to figure out what these were based on the construction which looks like no other EL34. Welded plates, single halo getter and a U-shaped heat shield. JJ sells the same tube as an E34L, but they don't actually manufacture them so they are not JJ's. My thought was these came from the final days of the Tesla plant before they sold out to JJ, but since these are similar to KT77's that may not be the case.

Seeing as this particular tube is still being manufactured as either a JJ E34L or Harma E34L/STR I'm not sure where they are manufactured. The glass is thicker than any current production power tube I've seen.

They are excellent tubes and probably worth the price, the seller is top notch as I've bought from him and Keiko bought from his as well. If I had $200 to spend on a quad it would be a tough choice between these and the Tesla's Micheal posted a link to. I like my Tesla's very much too.

But, yes these particular Siemens are killer tubes!

H9

heiney9

They are kind of like an EL34 on steroids w/o the 'roid rage. The glass envelope is slightly fatter than the typical EL34 but not in the same way as a fat bottle 6CA7. Again, very similar in construction and output of a KT77, but not quite a KT77.

H9

heiney9

If I had it to do all over again and knowing what I know now, just buy the JJ E34L (not the regular EL34) as they are the same tube as the Siemens the British guy is selling for a whole lot less money. He is charging a premium for the Siemens name and these EL34's ahve nothing to do with Siemens.

Actually I assume they are the same tube, never owned the JJ version. Seems like quite a price discrepancy. $60/quad vs. $200+/quad. I know the Siemens are older simply because Siemens hasn't marketed tubes in quite some time. The construction between the two is identical, but I wonder if they still use the super thick glass in the JJ's.

Take the money you saved and buy a quad of Tesla's too! :biggrin:

H9

zingo

What about these Winged C EL34s?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EL34-SVETLANA-WINGED-C-NOS-MATCHED-QUAD-/310210519022?pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item4839fcdfee#ht_500wt_1203

heiney9

Those were the one's I was refering to when I asked Dr. R about the differences between to the 'old' original Svetlana Winged C EL34s and the SED Winged C EL34's. Those have the older labels and boxes, but I forgot the licensing debacle between New Sensor and Svetlana only applies to tubes marketed in the US, so since he is a dealer in the UK those could be current Winged "C"s that are allowed to be labeled with the Svetlana logo and made in St. Petersburg rather than the Reflector Plant the US Svetlana EL34's are made at.

I was interested in them because some chatter on the internet has been about how some people think very current SED's have dropped a little in quality. I have a quad of SED Winged "C" El34's and they are really, really good. I thought if the one's in the link were older from the 90's they might be very good too.

Buying tubes is a huge puzzle one has to unravel sometimes. I haven't checked current prices for SED Winged C's here in the US but I think Tube Depot or Upscale Audio has them a little cheaper.

H9

zingo

Good to know. I have been eyeing the A-frame Amperex 6922s as their price seems to be reasonable, and they seem to be good quality, not the best, from what I've read.

I am continuing to enjoy the SED =C= 6L6GC I have in the amp right now, but they seem to have just a touch of life missing from them; a deal IMO for getting them second hand for $60.

heiney9

SED Winged =C= all around seem to be really nice current made tubes. I don't have anything that uses the 6DJ8/6922 family so I am not as well read on those. I believe the Siemens CCa or Telefunken CCa are superb as is the price.

If you pop for the RCA gray glass 6L6, I bet you get that life and more that you are missing

H9

marvda1

has anyone tried the ming da (jivinna) spelling blue glass el34? how do they compare to the jj blue glass el34?

thsmith

Might look at Ei 6ca7s.

zingo

Has anyone tried the nos Russian 6N23P? They can be had for a decent price online, but are a Russian tube I know little about.

zingo

I just ordered (from Russia) a quad of Russian Voskhod 6N23P, a variant of the 6922 twin-triode tube. I'm interested to see how they sound since there is not much info on them, but they are a cone getter, CCCP star logo from the 70's, and a lot more rare than the Reflektor plant 6N23P tubes. I'll specifically be comparing them against my current Voskhod plant 6N1P-EV tubes which have been a nice upgrade from the stock Chinese 6N1. For fun I added a quad of military Reflektor 6P3S to my order since they were cheap. They are a 6L6 variant, and nothing special from what I've read, but thought I'd give them a listen for a few extra bucks.

heiney9

Depending on what you are using them in, I wasn't aware the 6N23P was usable in place of a 6N1P. I have a unit that uses 6N1P's and it can't use 6922 or variants. Perhaps your unit is different. I have a pair of early 60's black plate 6N1P-EV which are really nice.

None of the 6N1P's I have compare to a really good Euro ECC85/6AQ8. TFK and Valvo Hamburg have those spots nailed down and are superb.

H9

zingo

The 6N1P does use a higher heater current than a real 6922, so is not a true sub. However, my amp can handle the added current even though it's designed for the 6922.

drselect

zingo wrote: »

For fun I added a quad of military Reflektor 6P3S to my order since they were cheap. They are a 6L6 variant, and nothing special from what I've read, but thought I'd give them a listen for a few extra bucks.

Just for clarification are they a 6P3S or the 6P3SE?

inspiredsports

I think some of the confusion comes right from certain Chinese manufacturers.

When I owned my Yaquin CD-1 tuber buffer, it had "6DJ8, 6N11, 6N1" silk screened right onto the chassis at the tube socket. In the original shipping box, they included a 6N1 and 6N1P. Some vendors went on further confuse the matter selling the CD-1 with a "6922 upgrade" for more money. I believe something certain Chinese manufacturers do under the hood allows for the substitution of these supposedly incompatible signal tubes

My experience with 6N1's (both Chinese and Russian) was that they are a much less refined sounding tubes than almost any other signal tubes I've tried.

Also note that there in no letter "N" in the Cyrillic (Russian) alphabet and it will appear stamped/etched on the tube as an "H" even if the tube is sold as an N (6H1 Russian = 6N1 rest of world)

inspiredsports

drselect wrote: »

Just for clarification are they a 6P3S or the 6P3SE?

About 2 years ago, I purchased a matched quad of 6P3S-E (6n3cE Cyrillic alphabet) Paino Iauna Russian power tubes for the 6L6 spots in my VTL ST-50 from Jim McShane at http://pages.prodigy.net/jimmcshane. They were rumored to be some of the very best in the 6L6/5881 family.

At the time, I paid about $16 delivered each for the closely matched quad from McShane and was duly impressed. I had to get into the $80-$100 each range for NOS GE 6L6GC blackplates to beat them.

drselect

inspiredsports wrote: »

About 2 years ago, I purchased a matched quad of 6P3S-E (6n3cE Cyrillic alphabet) Paino Iauna Russian power tubes for the 6L6 spots in my VTL ST-50 from Jim McShane at http://pages.prodigy.net/jimmcshane. They were rumored to be some of the very best in the 6L6/5881 family.

At the time, I paid about $16 delivered each for the closely matched quad from McShane and was duly impressed. I had to get into the $80-$100 each range for NOS GE 6L6GC blackplates to beat them.

Yep got them from the same place thanks to a guy name George.
Nice to hear your impression of them and how they compare to the NOS GE 6L6GC blackplates.

zingo

I bought the standard 6P3S large base (no E) tubes. I've heard they are not as premium as the E version coin base, but they were cheap. I may have to grab a quad of 6P3S-E with the good reviews...

heiney9

inspiredsports wrote: »

My experience with 6N1's (both Chinese and Russian) was that they are a much less refined sounding tubes than almost any other signal tubes I've tried.

In my experience they aren't unrefined, they (the Russian version) just don't quite have the "soul" of other good older Euro tubes. I like to roll the Russian version in every once in awhile because it has a fatter more bombastic sound, great for rock music.

The Chinese 6N1 that I have heard are pretty much flat, uninspiring and lifeless. I only have one piece that uses the 6N1(P) and that is the Dared MP-5 clone from HCT. They are the driver tubes for a Mosfet output section. The best tube i've used in it are 1959 Valvo Hamburg ECC85 "D" getter with the flat bar or Telefunken ECC85. I also have a pair of 1961 Valvo made by Philips in Heerlen that sound excellent as well. My 4th favorite in 1964 RCA ECC85 made in Munich by Siemens.

As far as I know the 6N1(P) and ECC85 are equivalent, not the 6922 family. But then all circuits can vary slightly.

Good luck and let us know how it works out for you

H9

george daniel

drselect wrote: »

Yep got them from the same place thanks to a guy name George.
Nice to hear your impression of them and how they compare to the NOS GE 6L6GC blackplates.

hey guys-- it's good to be remembered-- hope you are enjoying your tube journey. Ah,, pentodes:biggrin:

zingo

Can anyone identify these tubes?

zingo

Clarification, I know they are Russian 6N23P-EV possibly later manufacturing, but haven't figured out the plant. I haven't seen many tubes like these, and the seller didn't have any more info except test numbers.

zingo

From my research, they look like Reflektor plant 6N23P-EV from their structure and silver markings. The 80's Reflektor plant 6N23P-EV I found had the same silver lettering plus a silver Reflektor plant logo, but their blue certification lettering was different. I'm still considering picking up a quad of them as I've been enjoying rolling Russian 6922 variants or similars. I also just ordered a quad of 1970's Voskhod plant 6N1P tubes. I'm really starting to be able to distinguish between many of the Russian 6922 variants or similars, and I hope to have a quad of most of them shortly for comparison (and possibly collection) reasons. As a majority of them are pretty cheap tubes shipped from Russian, it seems like a reasonable task.

zingo

zingo wrote: »

Can anyone identify these tubes?

Bump

rromeo923

I just replaced my 6P3S-E's with Mullard Re-issue and imo Mullard Re-issues are better than the NOS 6P3S-E I had. I was surprised by the improvement in detail and clarity in the mids and highs.

zingo

Thanks for the review of the 6P3S-E and I will have to see how my coming 6P3S tubes compare to a true 6L6.

zingo

Just received my first pack of tubes from Russia; four Voskhod 6N23P and four Reflektor 6P3S. I popped in the 6N23P last night with good initial results. Without being burned in, they already have a nice sound with good extension, and enough emotion.

With a few hours on the 6N23Ps, I popped in the quad of the 6P3S with poor results. They heated up, then powered up fine, and I started adjusted the bias. I got them all roughly adjusted to .4V with occasional red-plating. Backed them all off to .35V, and the red-plating seemed to stop. Remeasured tube one at it was at 1.5V and quickly increasing with cherry-plate. At this point I turned off the amp and popped the tubes out. Disappointing, but I've heard they are not the most quality tubes to start, and they only cost me a couple dollars anyway...

zingo

I've received a few more quads of various Russian NOS tubes in and am still waiting for one more. Once I receive the last quad and burn them in, I'll be posting a comparison between them with pictures with hope that it would be helpful to other tube rollers who use the 6922 variant.

So far my Russian collection consists of quads of:
1970's Voskhod 6N1P-EV
1980's CCCP 6N23P-EV
1970's Voskhod 6N23P
1970's Orzep 6N1P
1980's Voskhod 6N1P-EV

The interesting thing about the CCCP labelled tubes are they look like exactly the same structure as my Gold Lion 6922 tubes, and they have the same weight. I can't pin down what plant they were made in as they are not marked with that info, but my guess is the Reflecktor plant, which my goal is to get a known quad of 80's Reflektor 6N23p-EV tubes to compare. I'm still burning them in, but I'd be interesting if they were of similar sound as well. They were the most expensive of the bunch as $25 a tube, but a good value if they sound good as the Gold Lions are $45 a tube.

heiney9

Gold Lion tubes are Russian made so that's not really a surprise and I also believe most of the Russian tubes that have labels like Mullard, Gold Lion, Svetlana and others are made at the Reflector plant. IIRC, Voskod/Kaluga and Reflector and St. Petersburg are the only plants still producing tubes. It's been awhile since I researched origins of Russian made tubes so my memory maybe a little foggy. Please feel free to add more info if I am mistaken.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if they sound similar, if not the same. They can charge more for the Gold Lion or Mullard name than they can for a regular old "Russian" tube.

H9

zingo

They do sound a little different with my initial tests, especially the 6N1P and 6N23P tubes as they are electrically different. Beyond that, my goal is to find (among the same kind of tube) what sounds the best or even makes a difference; plant of origin, year, grade. I am enjoying the sound of the Voskhod, 70's 6N1P-EV tubes right now, and it's also neat that they have a historical link as well.

I believe you are correct in that the Gold Lion tubes are made in the Reflektor/Saratov plant, which is were most of the New Sensor products come out of.