Replace my Ranger? Trying to weigh pros/cons...

nadams

I've got a 2000 Ranger 4x4 that I've had for over 4 years. I think it's time to start looking for another vehicle, even though I intended to keep this one for a while.

Here's where I'm at with the truck... It has 116k miles, and is in decent shape, with a little body rust on the rockers. I recently had to replace one of the rear spring hangers, and the other side will need to be replaced soon. I replaced the tires over 35,000 miles ago, and they will be due for replacement soon. Overall, it's been a good truck, but I'm afraid that, at 11 years old, I'm going to start having more problems with it.

The engine runs well, but has a problem with the #4 cylinder that tends to start misfiring every 2-4 months. A plug swap on #4 resolves the issue for a few more months. Also, the thermostat housing gasket leaks, which isn't a big deal, but needs to be changed.

Rear brakes I replaced two years ago, but the fronts are going to be due soon, mostly due to warped rotors. Also, some little stuff is just plain starting to wear out, like the front shocks.

So, all of this is justification for trading it in while it still has some value left.

Now, the bad part. I still owe $2400 on it. It will be paid off in May, and my original plan was to hang on to it as long as possible, so that I could bank up some cash and pay some other debts down. KBB estimates I'll be somewhere between $5k and $5,500 on a trade-in, so I'm not underwater on it anymore...

So, what's recommendation of the all-knowing Club Polk crowd? Should I hang on to it, and risk having to put some money into it before I trade it? Or should I start shopping now, and try to find something that will fit my needs, and possibly even come in with a lower payment?

VR3

The way I looked at it as I was in a similar situation...

Sink a few thousand in the current vehicle - it still be falling apart everywhere... or buy a new car with no problems, 4 times the gas mileage and spend the same as my truck a month (obviously not the exact scenario as you) - it just seemed like a no brainer in my situation.

As Doro said, there is little reason to have a vehicle without a warranty anymore!

TNRabbit

I have a '94 Toyota with 260,000 miles & it doesn't have all the problems you've had~ LOL

nadams

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »

The way I looked at it as I was in a similar situation...

Sink a few thousand in the current vehicle - it still be falling apart everywhere... or buy a new car with no problems, 4 times the gas mileage and spend the same as my truck a month (obviously not the exact scenario as you) - it just seemed like a no brainer in my situation.

As Doro said, there is little reason to have a vehicle without a warranty anymore!

Well, I'm not looking at a new vehicle... can't afford that. My current truck payment is $250/mo, and I need to stay at that level, or lower. Would be really nice to get something new though! At this point, I'm looking at a fullsize pickup, as I just don't think I can do without one right now...

TNRabbit wrote: »

I have a '94 Toyota with 260,000 miles & it doesn't have all the problems you've had~ LOL

Thanks for your useful contribution to this thread.

Jstas

I have an 87 Ranger with 227,000 miles on it with none of the problem's he's had either and I didn't pay near as much for it as you did for your Toyota~ LOL


Noah, the truck has 116K miles on it, you drive it daily. You also drive it in nasty eastern PA winters. The stuff you are complaining about isn't out of the ordinary for a vehicle with over 100K on it.

My brother was thinking the same things about his 97 Ranger. I spent a weekend and made him put about $2K in to it for maintenance stuff he neglected over the years. I replaced:

- Shackles for the rear springs
- spark plugs
- spark plug wires
- oil change
- fuel filter
- air filter
- shocks
- front spring perches
- sway bar bushings
- transmission filter/fluid
- Idle Air Control valve
- battery and starter cables

I had him get two new tires for the rear and an alignment. Aside from his filthy interior he says the truck drives like when he got it and he's happy as a clam again.

It's a Ranger, dude. They will run forever if you take care of them. Sink the money in to it and hold on to it. Pay it off 'cause once you do, you can get a car to drive around and hold on to the Ranger.

You'll regret getting rid of it if you do. A truck ALWAYS has value.

halo71

Other than the plug thing I think you have been lucky. Have you had to replace the tie rods yet? Has you odometer quit working? Any electrical issues? Power window motors/switched still work? Transmission start slipping badly at 75k miles?

Just a few of the issues I have had with mine. I should have stuck with Nissan, had 355k miles on my last Nissan truck with very few problems.

nadams

Thanks for the insight, John. I was wondering if I should do the tranny fluid/filter. I do occasionally load it to capacity, both in the bed, and towing.

Right now, my biggest concerns are the tranny (just because I have never trusted the longevity of an auto trans), and the engine (due to the cyl 4 issue I have). I had the same engine in my '94 Ranger, and it still ran like a top at 135k when I traded it.

Just for reference, I drive approx 10-12k a year, so nothing huge.

nadams

halo71 wrote: »

Other than the plug thing I think you have been lucky. Have you had to replace the tie rods yet? Has you odometer quit working? Any electrical issues? Power window motors/switched still work? Transmission start slipping badly at 75k miles?

Just a few of the issues I have had with mine. I should have stuck with Nissan, had 355k miles on my last Nissan truck with very few problems.

No tie rod issues. I currently have a clunk in the front end, which my mechanic thinks is a worn upper shock bushing (ball joints and tie rods check out). Odo/speedo works fine, all gauges work (losing dash lights one by one, though. Just waiting until I can't see the dash at night to tear it apart and replace them all). I don't have power windows or locks, so no problems there.

Only time I think I've felt the trans slip was when I was towing a Nissan Sentra on a tow dolly. Pretty sure it slipped a bit when I had to pull out from a red light on a hill.

madmax

Toyota is known for not having the type of problems the smaller fords and chevy trucks have. Put in gas and drive until you hit 300K miles, thats about all there is to owning a toyota.

nadams

madmax wrote: »

Toyota is known for not having the type of problems the smaller fords and chevy trucks have. Put in gas and drive until you hit 300K miles, thats about all there is to owning a toyota.

Until the frame folds in half...

Not looking to get into brand-bashing here. If I end up purchasing a new used vehicle, it will be whatever I find that has the features I want and comes in at the price I want. I'm not against any specific brand.

Jstas

The clunk was happening in my brother's as well which was why I replaced the spring perches. The upper shock bushings came with the shocks my dad got for him.

Those dash lights, it's Sylvania #157 or something like that. They are cheap and easier to replace than you think.

If you replace the fluid/filter, just don't overfill it. Some say to leave the old tranny fluid in there but the fluid has friction modifiers in it that help keep the belts and such from slipping. Leaving the old fluid is a sure fire way to destroy the transmission. New fluid rarely kills a transmission that didn't already have a problem masked by the caked on gunk from the old fluid. You really should do a transmission service every 30K miles or so.

Your trans is likely slipping due to overheating though. Towing does that. That's one other thing we did that I forgot. My brother has been traveling to various fairs and re-enactments with a forge on a trailer. So to make sure he doesn't go boom somewhere along the way, we installed a transmission cooler. He doesn't slip anymore.

As far as the engine, it's the Ford OHC 2.5L Lima engine. It's based off of the old 2.3L Pinto engine. The 2.0L, 2.3L and 2.5L variants are all bullet proof and will run until Jesus comes back if you take care of them. I wouldn't worry about that at all. Just keep up with regular maintenance and you should get another 100K miles out of it before it needs any major work.

Jstas

madmax wrote: »

Toyota is known for not having the type of problems the smaller fords and chevy trucks have. Put in gas and drive until you hit 300K miles, thats about all there is to owning a toyota.

No, that's what Toyota's brainwashing marketing departments wants you to think.

Go ahead, drive a Toyota for 300K without doing regular service and maintenance. Let me know how it works out.

ohskigod

If you had the ability to go with a new ride, I'd say go for it, But going used to used? Nah, ride it out. Any used vehicle is going to have meintenace costs.

exalted512

madmax wrote: »

Toyota is known for not having the type of problems the smaller fords and chevy trucks have. Put in gas and drive until you hit 300K miles, thats about all there is to owning a toyota.

cant speak for the fords, but the S10's are POS. I'd never own one. They make a good ranch truck because they dont die and you can find them for next to nothing, but the truck will fall apart around the engine.

I'd much rather have an old Toyota truck. Their new stuff? Meh, only time will tell. Their old stuff is pretty rock solid though.
-Cody

halo71

So John, are you saying you'd buy a Ranger for $20?

decal

You sure are having a lot of problems for a vehicle with only 116K miles. Regular maintenance is the key to longevity in a vehicle. You need to make your own decision on what to do next. We don't know your financial situation or your personal needs. I can tell you this, a dependable vehicle is a must have commodity. Good luck in whatever path you choose.

nadams

Jstas wrote: »

The clunk was happening in my brother's as well which was why I replaced the spring perches. The upper shock bushings came with the shocks my dad got for him.

Those dash lights, it's Sylvania #157 or something like that. They are cheap and easier to replace than you think.

If you replace the fluid/filter, just don't overfill it. Some say to leave the old tranny fluid in there but the fluid has friction modifiers in it that help keep the belts and such from slipping. Leaving the old fluid is a sure fire way to destroy the transmission. New fluid rarely kills a transmission that didn't already have a problem masked by the caked on gunk from the old fluid. You really should do a transmission service every 30K miles or so.

Your trans is likely slipping due to overheating though. Towing does that. That's one other thing we did that I forgot. My brother has been traveling to various fairs and re-enactments with a forge on a trailer. So to make sure he doesn't go boom somewhere along the way, we installed a transmission cooler. He doesn't slip anymore.

As far as the engine, it's the Ford OHC 2.5L Lima engine. It's based off of the old 2.3L Pinto engine. The 2.0L, 2.3L and 2.5L variants are all bullet proof and will run until Jesus comes back if you take care of them. I wouldn't worry about that at all. Just keep up with regular maintenance and you should get another 100K miles out of it before it needs any major work.

My truck already has trans and p/s coolers (albeit, factory ones). I'm almost certain the trans has never been serviced.

Also, it has the 4.0 OHV engine (last year they used them in the Rangers), which gets about the same gas mileage as a v-8 in a full-size truck. That's the other reason for going Full-size, if I do replace it.

At this point, I think I'm going to hang on to it, put some money in it, and see how long it lasts. After it's paid off, I've got $3k a year that I can either put towards the truck in keeping it running (which it's doubtful it'll need), or pay off other debts.

strider

I'd rather put money into that Ranger then venture into another used vehicle not knowing what type of past it's had. Figure out the problem with that #4 cylinder first, though. That might be a real game changer.

headrott

I agree with Ben.^^^^

Greg

Jstas

Oh, before I forget, #4 plug, when it fouls, what's it look like?

Typically the #4 cylinder goes bad because the coil packs go bad or the wires are bad. I know in newer ones, the coil is right on top of the plug and heat builds up in the back of the engine 'cause it's close to the firewall. The #4 set of coils tends to die before the others do because of that.

The other problem I've seen is the intake gasket leaking back there.

But I need to know what the plug looks like when fouled to tell you for sure.

Use this for a reference: http://www.verrill.com/moto/sellingguide/sparkplugs/plugcolorchart.htm

Jstas

nadams wrote: »

My truck already has trans and p/s coolers (albeit, factory ones). I'm almost certain the trans has never been serviced.

Also, it has the 4.0 OHV engine (last year they used them in the Rangers), which gets about the same gas mileage as a v-8 in a full-size truck. That's the other reason for going Full-size, if I do replace it.

At this point, I think I'm going to hang on to it, put some money in it, and see how long it lasts. After it's paid off, I've got $3k a year that I can either put towards the truck in keeping it running (which it's doubtful it'll need), or pay off other debts.

Oh, I thought you had the 4 cylinder.

Then yeah, your #4 problem is likely coil packs.

I would fix up the Ranger and pay off the debt. That will do far more good for you than getting in to another car.

nadams

Jstas wrote: »

Oh, I thought you had the 4 cylinder.

Then yeah, your #4 problem is likely coil packs.

I would fix up the Ranger and pay off the debt. That will do far more good for you than getting in to another car.

I'm afraid it's a crack in the head. Here's one example of a plug I've pulled.







All the plugs look as though they're not seating properly, or have exhaust blowing by the threads/seat when I pull them. Close inspection of the seat reveals nothing abnormal, but I haven't had anyone actually check for cracks.

The last plug I pulled, the insulator around the electrode was cracked.

Jstas

I doubt it's a head crack. And none of those plugs look like they are seating improperly because the beveled seat is clean as a whistle. The oil on the threads stops halfway up the threads and that means it's stop[ping at the combustion chamber and not getting past the plug seat. It's probably blow-by from the crankcase. That can be caused by a number of things but unless you are burning oil and have blue smoke exiting the exhaust, I doubt it's rings. It's probably from over working the engine. That causes heat build up which increases pressure and can force oil past the rings even if they are good. It also kills gas mileage. Replace your PCV valve and make sure the PCV plumbing isn't all clogged up.

A couple of reasons I doubt it's a head problem. There's no oil on the insulator or the lead that produces the spark. And that's not exhaust blow by, that's oil. Dirty oil. Likely from weeping valve cover gaskets. Or an intake gasket with a crack or leak or even a head gasket leak. They could also cause the oil build up but you would likely notice hot or rough running, burning oil and really bad gas mileage.

If you have a cracked electrode, that will cause a severe misfire and is likely due to over heating or leaning out the engine. You might have a dead injector or dying injector on that misfiring cylinder. That doesn't always show up in codes. You'll have to test it's voltage and duty cycle and you need a multimeter for that. Especially if it's intermittent. But all you need is one less than optimal squirt of fuel to cause a lean condition and foul the plug. Especially under towing or hauling a heavy load.

nadams

Just some clarification... those are all pics of the same plug. Only one cylinder has this issue (luckily, it's the easiest one to get to). The cracked electrode has only happened once, and it was very obvious when it cracked!

No blue smoke, though I do get the slight smell of burning antifreeze when I first start the truck. I don't think it's related to the leak, as this is immediate, before anything has a chance to warm up.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think I remember replacing the PCV as part of a routine tune-up a year or two ago. I can always replace it again, as it's cheap.

Here's another question... I had to remove the upper intake to replace the camshaft synchronizer last year, and noticed something odd about the interior of the intake. The ports get progressivly lighter in color from front to back. A picture to illustrate (the left side is the front of the engine)-



Any thoughts on why that would be?

Sorry for taking my own thread off-topic...

Jstas

It smells like anti-freeze?

Dude, that's not good. You probably have a crack in the head gasket right around the #4 cylinder.

Make sure your coolant is topped off properly and get something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Goodson-GLO-CAD-Antifreeze-Dye/dp/B0009RM9S0

That dye will circulate through the cooling system and all you need to do is shine the black light around. If you see any drips that glow under the black light, it's a leak.

As far as the darker to lighter intake runners, that's not necessarily a bad thing. If you had a bad PCV valve for a while and you were getting a bunch of gunk blowing by, the darker runners are probably just the ones closest to the PCV valve and/or EGR valve inlets.

Unless of course they smell like antifreeze. Then it's an intake gasket problem. Which could also be causing the antifreeze smell on start up but that dye will show you that as well. An intake gasket is a cinch to do. A head gasket, not so much.

madmax

Jstas wrote: »

No, that's what Toyota's brainwashing marketing departments wants you to think.

Go ahead, drive a Toyota for 300K without doing regular service and maintenance. Let me know how it works out.

Nah, Until a few years ago I had always had fords and chevys. I kept seeing all these toyotas at 250K to 300K miles on them and still selling for a good price. Even off-roaders tend to like the toyotas which I found hard to believe. I've never had an american car or truck that lasted more than about 117K miles with multiple work being required daily. Finally I opened my eyes. Wow! I no longer need to be a mechanic five days out of the week! Now I've got all these tools I don't use any more...

Jstas

madmax wrote: »

Nah, Until a few years ago I had always had fords and chevys. I kept seeing all these toyotas at 250K to 300K miles on them and still selling for a good price. Even off-roaders tend to like the toyotas which I found hard to believe. I've never had an american car or truck that lasted more than about 117K miles with multiple work being required daily. Finally I opened my eyes. Wow! I no longer need to be a mechanic five days out of the week! Now I've got all these tools I don't use any more...

Well I'm going to trump your anecdotal evidence with my own. I own 4 Ford, only one has less than 100,000 miles on it and I do standard maintenance and wear items. I haven't pooped any hood since April, the last time I did oil changes.

decal

Why did you **** on your hood :biggrin:

madmax

Jstas wrote: »

and wear items.

I have a phd in replacing wear items: Switches, gaskets, door hinges, AC compressors, water pumps, power steering pumps, torsion bars, torsion bar mounts, spring holders, radiators, ball joints, everything electrical, you name it. I now choose to drive vehicles which cause me to loose my phd status.

Don't get me wrong, I've never been stranded by failures, its just that to keep everything in shape and working its a weekly fix fest on these american machines, I did it for 30 years. Used to be no one could tell me any different even though I noticed that people with reliable cars were not playing mechanic all the time.

Edit: And as frustrating as all that was I never once pooped on my hood!

Jstas

I have lots to say but it will all get me banned.

But I have to wonder, with all those problems on your "Fords and Chevies", especially with parts that weren't on them, it makes me wonder, is it the car that's the problem or the owner?

sucks2beme

Son #1 used to be a Lexus/Toyota mechanic.
Not all of the Toymotors fall into the "seldom breaks"
zone. They have stinkers, too. There were lines of drivetrains
that were damn reliable. They might lightly tweak them, but
tended to leave basic design alone. Then there were new
ones. Not any better than Detroit stuff.
Detroit has some very good drivetrains. My experience is
most of them are the full size stuff. Front wheel drive
was really hit and miss.
I have seen a lot of 4 banger Rangers around here with a buttload of miles.