New Pioneer Elite Receivers, let's talk SC55/57

Sherardp

Seems like more Pio goodness, as these are already released. I would love the SC57. Look at the brushed face with the gloss look in the middle. These look awesome. Upgraded amp sections to the new D3 class D amps. I may just get one to toy with Airplay. I could move the SC07 to the living room, and the Sony 7100ES to my bedroom. That would be 3 awesome rigs.

If I do decide on one it will be in a few months down the road, I paid $1600 with the SC07 and it dropped to a much lower price shortly after.

SC57
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Elite+Receivers/SC-57

SC55
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Elite+Receivers/SC-55

Toolfan66

Awesome!!! It says 9.1 but with two sub outs thats 9.2 IMO..

Topper

looks like they ain't using B&O for the amp tech anymore. Anyone compare the new models against the old ICE receivers?

leroyjr1

I'm wondering if the D3 ice amps will indeed be an upgrade or just cost savings while still maintaining ice amps inside. Seems like most companies these days are going to cheaper parts in order to keep the price in order. I personally thing it looks cheaper and ugly compared to the previous models. I'll definitely miss the gloss black.

WGDB

Looks pretty bad@ss to me too! and just a few months back, I thought my new SC35 was close to top shelf pioneer.

SRTer

Topper wrote: »

looks like they ain't using B&O for the amp tech anymore. Anyone compare the new models against the old ICE receivers?

It's mostlikely to early to find some one with an older SC-0x,2x,3x model to do a side by side comparison.

I have heard from another peorson on another forum that it's better in features than his old SC-07. The jury is still out on the sound quailty and power vs older models. The owner of the new model didn't really have a difference to report in those terms of performance.

Here is some more reading material for the ne SC-55 and SC-37.
Website: TWICE
http://mobile.twice.com/article/472047-Two_Pioneer_Elite_AVRs_Step_Up_Amp_Performance.php

Sherardp

I know the looks aren't for everyone. It would look great paired up with the Oppo since they use a brush finish to their players as well. As for the amp section, I read (Pio Website) this is the 3rd version of Class D amps in the SC line up, hence they came up with D3. Not sure if they went B&O again or not, I really can't give you a solid answer. Hopefully Mantis can jump in since he seems to get product info on Pio gear.

I'm sure you guys will be able to get one sooner than myself so the waiting begins. I sent an email to my good pal over at ValueElectronics for pricing since he has them listed on the store's page along with the new Pio displays released Aug 22nd ( mentioned in Mantis's thread early on).

cnh

leroyjr1 wrote: »

I'm wondering if the D3 ice amps will indeed be an upgrade or just cost savings while still maintaining ice amps inside. Seems like most companies these days are going to cheaper parts in order to keep the price in order. I personally thing it looks cheaper and ugly compared to the previous models. I'll definitely miss the gloss black.

I gotta agree with leroy here. Always liked the so-called Urushi Lacquer finish...will miss it.

And also wonder about 'cost cutting', margins, etc.?

cnh

mantis

leroyjr1 wrote: »

I'm wondering if the D3 ice amps will indeed be an upgrade or just cost savings while still maintaining ice amps inside. Seems like most companies these days are going to cheaper parts in order to keep the price in order. I personally thing it looks cheaper and ugly compared to the previous models. I'll definitely miss the gloss black.

These are all my exact concerns.

As far as comparing it to the older models, just wait for my review. As soon as we get them in, I'm taking a SC-57 home for a complete shootout. We have all the VSX models in stock and I have Installed a bunch of them. We have not had a SC job and all the ones we did we got rid of all the SC-35's and SC-37's on them as they where all spec'd before the SC-55 and SC-57's where released.
I did post all the specs already on another thread. I'm not sure where I did that I think it was on the Def Tech STS thread.
I want the new receiver for IP control , dual sub outs( I have ST's and it would be killer to tune them with the receiver instead of myself) , Built in Airplay( just a cool feature and I wouldn't have to use a Airport express anymore) , More HDMI inputs(4 is nice but 7 is much better). Height and width channels well honestly I have yet to do a job with them and have not heard a system yet with them installed. I'm curious to hear it go and I really haven't spent any time learning about that technology.
We do a lot of 7.2 setups and find that system killer. 5.1 is still the most installed and covers just about everything out there perfectly. I'd rather have less better speakers then more good speakers with the same budget.
Back to the look , I'm not a huge fan of the new look. Call me old fashion but Pioneer Elite receivers since the beginning have been in Urushi Finish. It's one of those things that is special to me.
The amp section is a less concern, I have never once heard a bad , ok or just nice sounding Elite receiver. They in history have always been IMO the best sounding and all around Dollar for Dollar receiver's on the market.

SRTer

There is alot of worry on every board I frequent about cost cutting measures that might have been taken by Pioneer in producing the follow up to the SC-35/37 B&O ICE D-class power AVR's.

I'm really waiting for a Home Theater Mag or Sound and Vision bench test to see if the power is right. I really have no worries about the sound being less than stellar.

I want to to see the new SC's make at least 135 watt in 7 channel mode since the SC-37 was bench tested at 135 watts @ 8 ohms, 5 channels fully driven. Power droped to 120ish in 7 channel mode.

gudnoyez

Reference Audio here in town is really pushing these, every time I drive buy the place the scroll sign reads, come in and chek out the new Pioneer Elite Line I'am tempted to do so one of these days. I want a pair of Rti'a9s would the SC-55 have the power to push them 9's and my 5's? I would have to part with eithier my 3's or 5's and my Denon Avr 891 to take a little load off the purchase.

SRTer

gudnoyez wrote: »

Reference Audio here in town is really pushing these, every time I drive buy the place the scroll sign reads, come in and chek out the new Pioneer Elite Line I'am tempted to do so one of these days. I want a pair of Rti'a9s would the SC-55 have the power to push them 9's and my 5's? I would have to part with eithier my 3's or 5's and my Denon Avr 891 to take a little load off the purchase.

The SC-55 should be able to play the RTi A9's well if it's anything like the SC-35 or better.

My SC-35 has not missed a beat in powering RTi A9's and RTi A7's in full range.

comfortablycurt

Damn, where have I been? Last time I checked out Pio's website, the SC35 and SC37 had just come out...damn this stuff evolves quickly.

Are these ones significantly improved over the old models, or is it just a minor upgrade?

Whenever I get back into HT, there's a good chance that it will be in the form of an upper level Pioneer Elite. Though I do still love Onkyo's products...

leroyjr1

gudnoyez wrote: »

Reference Audio here in town is really pushing these, every time I drive buy the place the scroll sign reads, come in and chek out the new Pioneer Elite Line I'am tempted to do so one of these days. I want a pair of Rti'a9s would the SC-55 have the power to push them 9's and my 5's? I would have to part with eithier my 3's or 5's and my Denon Avr 891 to take a little load off the purchase.

Low to medium volumes will be ok using just the receiver but more power is always a big plus and it'll sound better. I had a9's on my Elite receiver and while it sounded good it wasn't the same as running an external amp.

leroyjr1

mantis wrote: »

These are all my exact concerns.

As far as comparing it to the older models, just wait for my review. As soon as we get them in, I'm taking a SC-57 home for a complete shootout. We have all the VSX models in stock and I have Installed a bunch of them. We have not had a SC job and all the ones we did we got rid of all the SC-35's and SC-37's on them as they where all spec'd before the SC-55 and SC-57's where released.
I did post all the specs already on another thread. I'm not sure where I did that I think it was on the Def Tech STS thread.
I want the new receiver for IP control , dual sub outs( I have ST's and it would be killer to tune them with the receiver instead of myself) , Built in Airplay( just a cool feature and I wouldn't have to use a Airport express anymore) , More HDMI inputs(4 is nice but 7 is much better). Height and width channels well honestly I have yet to do a job with them and have not heard a system yet with them installed. I'm curious to hear it go and I really haven't spent any time learning about that technology.
We do a lot of 7.2 setups and find that system killer. 5.1 is still the most installed and covers just about everything out there perfectly. I'd rather have less better speakers then more good speakers with the same budget.
Back to the look , I'm not a huge fan of the new look. Call me old fashion but Pioneer Elite receivers since the beginning have been in Urushi Finish. It's one of those things that is special to me.
The amp section is a less concern, I have never once heard a bad , ok or just nice sounding Elite receiver. They in history have always been IMO the best sounding and all around Dollar for Dollar receiver's on the market.

Would love to also have the 2 sub outs but other than that I'm not really needing height or wide channels. For the $600 price difference between selling my 27 and buying the 57 I'm thinking just add a SMS-1 to my mythos setup. Im betting it'll yield better results. Have you heard the mythos eq'd yet?

mantis

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Would love to also have the 2 sub outs but other than that I'm not really needing height or wide channels. For the $600 price difference between selling my 27 and buying the 57 I'm thinking just add a SMS-1 to my mythos setup. Im betting it'll yield better results. Have you heard the mythos eq'd yet?

Eq'd with MCACC yes I have.

If dual sub outs , IP control and Airplay isn't in your future then stick with the 27.

leroyjr1

mantis wrote: »

Eq'd with MCACC yes I have.

If dual sub outs , IP control and Airplay isn't in your future then stick with the 27.

MCACC doesn't EQ subs, only calibrates and sets distance. I'm referring to room correction.

I do have a IPhone, IPad and iPod. So with airplay I can play whatever is on my apple device without using the USB cord?

Sherardp

I have the Velo SMS-1. I'm wondering if the 57 can EQ dual subs properly. I don't need the height channels either so I'll stick to the current 7.2. It would probably sound kick a$$ with a pair or RTiA1s as height channels though. Fingers crossed for good reviews on these.

leroyjr1

Also wondering why it's labeled as 9.1 but with dual sub outs? Are they not stereo and just Y split inside.

mantis

leroyjr1 wrote: »

MCACC doesn't EQ subs, only calibrates and sets distance. I'm referring to room correction.

I do have a IPhone, IPad and iPod. So with airplay I can play whatever is on my apple device without using the USB cord?

You said "have you heard the Mythos Eq'd yet?" I just assumed you meant the Mythos series , I didn't get sub out of it.

mantis

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Also wondering why it's labeled as 9.1 but with dual sub outs? Are they not stereo and just Y split inside.

I believe nothing is recorded with .2 I'm guessing this is the reason. The Old flagship SC-09 had dual subs out and MCACC calibrated each sub. Level and distance. I also believe Phase was included in the sub. I'll have to check on that.

Sherardp

mantis wrote: »

I believe nothing is recorded with .2 I'm guessing this is the reason. The Old flagship SC-09 had dual subs out and MCACC calibrated each sub. Level and distance. I also believe Phase was included in the sub. I'll have to check on that.

I'm beginning to think there won't be a SC-09 replacement for some time now. It's been out forever and a day also. I'm guessing it's just that good a receiver.

LuSh

SRTer,

magazine 'power tests' specifically all channels driven are a complete joke and actually steer a person into believing one amplifier Is more powerful then another when the complete opposite is sometimes true.

Look at two channels driven instead over a wide impedance range.

mantis

Sherardp wrote: »

I'm beginning to think there won't be a SC-09 replacement for some time now. It's been out forever and a day also. I'm guessing it's just that good a receiver.

I saw spec's for a SC-59. I'm wondering if they are waiting of a few tweaks or something. I also think it would be badass if one who owns a SC-09 can get a new SC59 preamp installed as they are completely separate inside that chassis.

I have had the pleasure of installing the SC-09 a few times and left every time in awe. It's a monster receiver and probably should have been made into separates.

mantis

LuSh wrote: »

SRTer,

magazine 'power tests' specifically all channels driven are a complete joke and actually steer a person into believing one amplifier Is more powerful then another when the complete opposite is sometimes true.

Look at two channels driven instead over a wide impedance range.

This maybe very true but the SC models from Pioneer have rated higher then all others with the same exact testing from a few different mags.

Basically everyone claims the SC models output is very code to true to spec. Thats a wonderful thing and when you have one in a system you tend to believe it.
I own and have Installed many Sc models and they can fill the largest theater rooms with ease. Awesome power especially compared to Onkyo , Integra and Denon models.

LuSh

Actually they haven't when using testing methods I've outlined but that's besides the point. All I wanted to bring up is that the new SC's might 'test worse' in an all channels driven test but could in fact be more powerful for real world applications - 1 or 2 channels driven 20-20 at numerous impedance loads, compared to the older SC models.

SRTer

LuSh wrote: »

SRTer,

magazine 'power tests' specifically all channels driven are a complete joke and actually steer a person into believing one amplifier Is more powerful then another when the complete opposite is sometimes true.

Look at two channels driven instead over a wide impedance range.

I will look into this. The old SC-35/37 was good for 150 watts in 2 channel mode which seems to rank well with other AVR's out there. The Denon 4308CI comes to mind when I think of AVR's that rated well in 2 channel and 5 channel modes beyond the SC-35/37.

You know, I really have focused on any other ohms rating because I'm not running any 4 ohm or 6 ohm speakers yet.

I'm think of doing a 6 ohm speaker of some type for a 2 channel room I'm going to do on the first floor of my house around tax return time.

SRTer

LuSh wrote: »

Actually they haven't when using testing methods I've outlined but that's besides the point. All I wanted to bring up is that the new SC's might 'test worse' in an all channels driven test but could in fact be more powerful for real world applications - 1 or 2 channels driven 20-20 at numerous impedance loads, compared to the older SC models.

Can you point me to some of these testing methods and other testing results because I'm truly in this to learn.

I don't have money to waste, so before I buy another SC and think its gold. Please post or PM me all you have in the topic.

Correction is not always comfortable but if I can gain wisdom from it, I'm for it.

F1nut

LuSh wrote: »

SRTer,

magazine 'power tests' specifically all channels driven are a complete joke and actually steer a person into believing one amplifier Is more powerful then another when the complete opposite is sometimes true.

Look at two channels driven instead over a wide impedance range.

Why would one want to look at 2 channels driven if one is using 5 or 7?

LuSh

Check out the following links:

http://www.audioholics.com/education/amplifier-technology/the-all-channels-driven-amplifier-test-controversy

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=102050&postcount=26

for specific examples on how these test cause confusion look at the following tests:

http://www.hometheater.com/content/pioneer-elite-sc-07-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

http://www.hometheater.com/content/yamaha-rx-z7-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/pioneer-sc-07/sc-07-measurements-and-analysis

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/rx-z7-7.1/rx-z7-measurements

In a nut shell. Self limiters are usually at play when receivers test poorly on 7 channel continuous test tones, these tests (usually at a single impedance at 1kHz) represents the most unrealistic way an amplifier would be used. Because thermal dynamic output is never measured product 'A' might test simply because the manufacture lets more through while another might limit to preserve the lifespan on the product. Dynamics are the single most important aspect of an amplifier and dynamics require the measurement of various impedance's (no speaker in the world runs at 8ohm across all frequency's) across the full frequency range (All Channel's Driven tests are the complete opposite of this theory and actually measure the receivers static output which is counter productive to what we want to accomplish). You really want a dynamic receiver as opposed to a receiver that tests well in a static and often unrealistic environment. That is why if the new Elites test poorly in ACD tests it may in fact still be more dynamic (and powerful) then the older models.

LuSh

F1 nut, because all channels driven tests are static and two channel tests are usually dynamic taking into account the full frequency spectrum over a larger impedance range. ACD tests are easier to prepare for reviewers who are under the gun to put out reviews quickly. Receiver, VARIAC device and boom you get a test measurement that is quick, but tells you nothing how the receiver or amplifier would preform in the real world. All measurements are static where the very nature of music is all about dynamic swings in Freq range and impedance curves.

I'm dying for Audioholics to do a review of Anthem receivers (who have tested poorly in other review publications) because I suspect it is an incredibly dynamic receiver but has self limiters which protect thermal output when the receiver is put in situations that aren't realistic.

I bet the Anthems have incredible reserves however when needed and can cope better with drops in impedance over competitors.