RTi10's

RodneyWoodford
RodneyWoodford Posts: 144
edited August 2011 in Speakers
Is running an HK 254 at -10db to -5dbs into RTi10's too loud? Seems I need it at that volume when listening to music DVDs. Will I do damage to the speakers? Its still clear at this volume.
Post edited by RodneyWoodford on
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  • kazaam
    kazaam Posts: 92
    edited August 2011
    Damn that AVR is only rated at 50W per channel? Im not really authorized to give you advice due to lack of experience but that seems pretty risky.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,015
    edited August 2011
    I would say your at the danger level of toasting a tweet. Depending on the dynamics of the music your playing. Keep it closer to the -10 and you should be ok. HK's 50 watts are more accurate across their line than most other brands.

    We have plenty of threads here talking about powering speakers, amps, the power ratings of avr's, etc, look some up and get your read on....may save you a few bucks down the line.
    HT SYSTEM-
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    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,986
    edited August 2011
    You've got preamp outputs, and HK PA series amps can be had for a song - and will drive RTi10's just fine (I know, I've done it). Amp up!

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • SRTer
    SRTer Posts: 372
    edited August 2011
    RodneyWoodford wrote: »
    Is running an HK 254 at -10db to -5dbs into RTi10's too loud? Seems I need it at that volume when listening to music DVDs. Will I do damage to the speakers? Its still clear at this volume.

    Let me be very clear. I love Harmon/Kardon. H/K is the first AVR I bought in 1999 at Circuit City in St. Louis. I also had a H/K 254 that I bought from Best Buy in 2008.

    The H/K 254 was horrible on the my setup with RTi8's front and rear with a CSi A6 and Polk PSW111.

    H/K often is known for their warm sound and true power ratings. However, my RTi8's sounded bright and strained at high volume, which is where the H/K 254 has to stay to make the towers have any presence in the room.

    I changed to a Pioneer Elite VSX-23 and finally made that setup worth something.

    You must replace it now!

    You will also notice better bass management if you go the Pio Elite VSX route, the little PSW111 got a stay of execution with the VSX-23 at the helm.

    You will thank me when you replace your AVR.
    Fronts: Polk RTi A9
    Center: Polk CSI A6
    Rears: Polk RTi A7
    Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC-35 (140 watts x 7)
    Amplifier: Adcom GFA-555 Mk.II (200 watt @ 8 ohms)
    Sub: Polk DSW PRO 500 (10 inch, 200 Watt)
    TV: Samsung 59 inch 3D Plasma 600 Hz PN59D7000
    Sources: Samsung BD-D6700 3D Blu-ray Player, DirecTV, PS3, iPhone 4 and IPod Classic with Apple Lossless Tracks
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  • SRTer
    SRTer Posts: 372
    edited August 2011
    RuSsMaN wrote: »
    You've got preamp outputs, and HK PA series amps can be had for a song - and will drive RTi10's just fine (I know, I've done it). Amp up!

    Cheers,
    Russ

    Amp is also a great option.
    Fronts: Polk RTi A9
    Center: Polk CSI A6
    Rears: Polk RTi A7
    Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC-35 (140 watts x 7)
    Amplifier: Adcom GFA-555 Mk.II (200 watt @ 8 ohms)
    Sub: Polk DSW PRO 500 (10 inch, 200 Watt)
    TV: Samsung 59 inch 3D Plasma 600 Hz PN59D7000
    Sources: Samsung BD-D6700 3D Blu-ray Player, DirecTV, PS3, iPhone 4 and IPod Classic with Apple Lossless Tracks
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  • RodneyWoodford
    RodneyWoodford Posts: 144
    edited August 2011
    Got a chance to pick up an Adcom GFA 5400 of a Adcom GFA 545 for around $300 shipped , how would this work and which would you guys go with or would you change Avr's alltogether? Thanks
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited August 2011
    Dang, Rodney, don't listen to that "replace it now" garbage! :eek::wink:

    HK 254 -> Adcom -> RTi10 sounded WONDERFUL to my ears.

    I don't know much about the older 545 model, but the 5400 isn't quite the amp that my 7500 is, but I'd be willing to bet it would work nicely for you.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,015
    edited August 2011
    Wouldn't hurt to try an amp out with the HK first before deciding to move it down the road.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • SRTer
    SRTer Posts: 372
    edited August 2011
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    Dang, Rodney, don't listen to that "replace it now" garbage! :eek::wink:

    HK 254 -> Adcom -> RTi10 sounded WONDERFUL to my ears.

    I don't know much about the older 545 model, but the 5400 isn't quite the amp that my 7500 is, but I'd be willing to bet it would work nicely for you.

    You know, I'm not sure why you think that my statements are garbage. However, it is so. Without fail, running I his volume as high as he had is never looked upon as a good thing by many people.

    I owned the same H/K, I don't know if you did. Nevertheless, that was my exsperince with it.

    He will be fine with a amp but without, his H/K is going to hold his system back.

    Secondly, if he would try for himself a Onkyo or Pio Elite (just to name 2) he will find better bass management.

    He should try to test these out, and see if there is a appreciatable difference to HIS ears.

    The tone of your comments are less than reasonable with some many post under your belt. To call others comment garbage as if you do all the reviews for the audio industry products is over board.
    Fronts: Polk RTi A9
    Center: Polk CSI A6
    Rears: Polk RTi A7
    Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC-35 (140 watts x 7)
    Amplifier: Adcom GFA-555 Mk.II (200 watt @ 8 ohms)
    Sub: Polk DSW PRO 500 (10 inch, 200 Watt)
    TV: Samsung 59 inch 3D Plasma 600 Hz PN59D7000
    Sources: Samsung BD-D6700 3D Blu-ray Player, DirecTV, PS3, iPhone 4 and IPod Classic with Apple Lossless Tracks
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  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited August 2011
    Rodney that Adcom would help a ton. I think you should try that before dumping the HK.
    SRTer wrote: »
    You know, I'm not sure why you think that my statements are garbage. However, it is so. Without fail, running I his volume as high as he had is never looked upon as a good thing by many people.

    I owned the same H/K, I don't know if you did. Nevertheless, that was my exsperince with it.

    He will be fine with a amp but without, his H/K is going to hold his system back.

    Secondly, if he would try for himself a Onkyo or Pio Elite (just to name 2) he will find better bass management.

    He should try to test these out, and see if there is a appreciatable difference to HIS ears.

    The tone of your comments are less than reasonable with some many post under your belt. To call others comment garbage as if you do all the reviews for the audio industry products is over board.

    I don't think he was singling you out directly and from your tone it sounds like it hurt your feelings. So first you need to step back and relax. He wasn't saying SRT is wrong and should be hung for his transgressions.

    He was giving the OP better advise for the long run. Bass management is a nice extra but running a separate amp will be better in the long run.

    I am sorry but there is no Receiver out there that can compete with a separate amp for the speakers. None.

    Plus buying a used Adcom, Parasound, B&K or other will be a whole lot cheaper than switching to a 6-700 dollar Receiver cause it has bass management.

    We try to help people not shoot down there equipment. Just because your experience was one thing does not mean the OP needs to hear how crappy his HK is. Honestly it is quite a good receiver that doesn't have enough juice for his mains. All the Bass management in the world will not help that.
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited August 2011
    Haha! Chill out, SRTer... Note the eek and the wink after my initial comment.

    Now the funny part... Not only did I own a 254, but I sold it to Rodney. :smile: He recently bought it prior to acquiring his speakers. I also ran RTi10s, albeit with an amp, and found the combo quite pleasing, particularly in 2-channel direct mode. Rodney knows he's gonna need an amp to get the most out of this setup, although he didn't mention it in this particular post.

    Rodney - As I told you before, the 254 WILL run those speakers until you can add an amp, but you better go easy on the volume... So, it's good you asked the question!
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  • SRTer
    SRTer Posts: 372
    edited August 2011
    Joe08867 wrote: »
    I don't think he was singling you out directly and from your tone it sounds like it hurt your feelings. So first you need to step back and relax. He wasn't saying SRT is wrong and should be hung for his transgressions.

    We try to help people not shoot down there equipment. Just because your experience was one thing does not mean the OP needs to hear how crappy his HK is. Honestly it is quite a good receiver that doesn't have enough juice for his mains. All the Bass management in the world will not help that.
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    Haha! Chill out, SRTer... Note the eek and the wink after my initial comment.

    Rodney - As I told you before, the 254 WILL run those speakers until you can add an amp, but you better go easy on the volume... So, it's good you asked the question!

    I don't get FEELING's other than good ones from this forum, when that changes, I will leave for it's for fun. However, I want to addresse a situation be it good or bad, I will.

    I also seconded the amp purchase.

    Rod, don't know you but I didn't mean to trash anybodys items. In less than 200 post, I haven't trashed Emo or Bose like some have. None of that is appealing to me.

    I love H/K, Infinity, and JBL. I have done cars with Infinity amps mixed with some Boston and enjoyed them.

    The Adcom amp reviews well is on the online Home Theater Review site. I also think it would do the trick. Down the road, you might want to look into the the bass management situation. I'm not trying to be arrogant, just humbly sharing my experience.

    I do know your in good hand with these fellas. No love lost here.
    Fronts: Polk RTi A9
    Center: Polk CSI A6
    Rears: Polk RTi A7
    Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC-35 (140 watts x 7)
    Amplifier: Adcom GFA-555 Mk.II (200 watt @ 8 ohms)
    Sub: Polk DSW PRO 500 (10 inch, 200 Watt)
    TV: Samsung 59 inch 3D Plasma 600 Hz PN59D7000
    Sources: Samsung BD-D6700 3D Blu-ray Player, DirecTV, PS3, iPhone 4 and IPod Classic with Apple Lossless Tracks
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  • HTguru1982
    HTguru1982 Posts: 1,066
    edited August 2011
    After I sold my Yamaha 2600, I used a Harman AVR-146 to drive my RTi10's, CSi5 and FXi3's. The HK was able to drive them to moderately loud levels with no problem. -10 to -5db might be pushing it, though as I never ran mine past -20db. As others have pointed out, if you need your system to play that loudly, a separate amp is the best way to go. Check Audiogon for two channel Adcom amps. They can be had for $100 to $200.
    Display: Sony 42" LCD
    Sources: Harman Kardon DVD-27,
    Panasonic DMP-BDT110 blu ray player
    AVR: Sony STR-DA2400ES
    Amps: Sonance Sonamp 260(fronts),
    Kenwood KM-894(surrounds)
    Fronts: NHT 2.5
    Center: NHT VS-1.2A
    Surrounds: NHT Super One
    Subwoofer: SVS PB10-ISD
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  • RodneyWoodford
    RodneyWoodford Posts: 144
    edited August 2011
    Thanks Guys for all the advice! Think I'll look into a ext. amp.
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  • djperez81
    djperez81 Posts: 388
    edited August 2011
    There is a adcom 545II for sale in the FM. Might want to check that out.
    Music doesn't lie. If there is something to be changed in this world, then it can only happen through music.
    -Jimi Hendrix
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  • RodneyWoodford
    RodneyWoodford Posts: 144
    edited August 2011
    Thanks but I think the adcom 5400 is a little newer , correct?
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  • djperez81
    djperez81 Posts: 388
    edited August 2011
    RodneyWoodford wrote: »
    Thanks but I think the adcom 5400 is a little newer , correct?

    Im not sure. But i just realized that the adcom in the FM is no shipping. Sorry
    Music doesn't lie. If there is something to be changed in this world, then it can only happen through music.
    -Jimi Hendrix
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  • Cmiller
    Cmiller Posts: 108
    edited August 2011
    Wow, didnt we went through this Rti10 topic before here..Get 300W thrown @ them,and you will be finished..300W is what they need..no if and or buts..
    Samsung PN50B550 Plasma
    Pioneer Elite SC-25
    Pioneer Elite BDP-23FD
    Adcom 7500 Amp-Panamax 4300 Conditioner
    Polk RTi10's Fronts
    Polk Csi A6 Center-Polk M60s rear Surrounds
    Klipsch Synergy Sub-10 X2
    Klipsch Synergy S-10 Premium back surround
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,015
    edited August 2011
    Curious as to how you came up with that 300 watt figure. Care to explain ?
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • Cmiller
    Cmiller Posts: 108
    edited August 2011
    Well, ive tried 100W 150W 200W and then finally 300W..and 300W was the best i heard out of them..
    Samsung PN50B550 Plasma
    Pioneer Elite SC-25
    Pioneer Elite BDP-23FD
    Adcom 7500 Amp-Panamax 4300 Conditioner
    Polk RTi10's Fronts
    Polk Csi A6 Center-Polk M60s rear Surrounds
    Klipsch Synergy Sub-10 X2
    Klipsch Synergy S-10 Premium back surround
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited August 2011
    Cmiller wrote: »
    Well, ive tried 100W 150W 200W and then finally 300W..and 300W was the best i heard out of them..

    Sorry, but that's just ridiculous.
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  • Cmiller
    Cmiller Posts: 108
    edited August 2011
    Ive not following you..

    So if i tried all the above Watts for my Rti10's and 300W sounded the best,thats ridiculous?
    Samsung PN50B550 Plasma
    Pioneer Elite SC-25
    Pioneer Elite BDP-23FD
    Adcom 7500 Amp-Panamax 4300 Conditioner
    Polk RTi10's Fronts
    Polk Csi A6 Center-Polk M60s rear Surrounds
    Klipsch Synergy Sub-10 X2
    Klipsch Synergy S-10 Premium back surround
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  • HTguru1982
    HTguru1982 Posts: 1,066
    edited August 2011
    It's not the quantity that matters, it's the quality.
    Display: Sony 42" LCD
    Sources: Harman Kardon DVD-27,
    Panasonic DMP-BDT110 blu ray player
    AVR: Sony STR-DA2400ES
    Amps: Sonance Sonamp 260(fronts),
    Kenwood KM-894(surrounds)
    Fronts: NHT 2.5
    Center: NHT VS-1.2A
    Surrounds: NHT Super One
    Subwoofer: SVS PB10-ISD
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited August 2011
    Cmiller wrote: »
    Ive not following you..

    So if i tried all the above Watts for my Rti10's and 300W sounded the best,thats ridiculous?

    You are not feeding them 300W. 150W from one channel of your amp into the top "bi-ampable" binding posts and 150W from another channel into the bottom does not mean you are pushing 300W into your speakers. The watts are not additive in that way.
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  • Upstatemax
    Upstatemax Posts: 2,685
    edited August 2011
    Cmiller wrote: »
    Well, ive tried 100W 150W 200W and then finally 300W..and 300W was the best i heard out of them..

    But did you try 400 watts? How about 500 watts?!

    :rolleyes:
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited August 2011
    Upstatemax wrote: »
    But did you try 400 watts? How about 500 watts?!

    :rolleyes:

    Aaahhhh, no need to bust on Cmiller... I only said it was ridiculous when I assumed he meant that a minimum 300W amp was needed, but that wasn't necessarily what he meant. Once I realized what he was talking about, I understood the confusion... The Adcom GFA-7500 is a nice amp! :cool:
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,015
    edited August 2011
    Cmiller wrote: »
    Wow, didnt we went through this Rti10 topic before here..Get 300W thrown @ them,and you will be finished..300W is what they need..no if and or buts..

    Sounds like it to me.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • Cmiller
    Cmiller Posts: 108
    edited August 2011
    Lol, its all good..haha..Guess ill leave this topic up to the pros..Good luck poster..we tried..this always happens here..
    Samsung PN50B550 Plasma
    Pioneer Elite SC-25
    Pioneer Elite BDP-23FD
    Adcom 7500 Amp-Panamax 4300 Conditioner
    Polk RTi10's Fronts
    Polk Csi A6 Center-Polk M60s rear Surrounds
    Klipsch Synergy Sub-10 X2
    Klipsch Synergy S-10 Premium back surround
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  • Cmiller
    Cmiller Posts: 108
    edited August 2011
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    You are not feeding them 300W. 150W from one channel of your amp into the top "bi-ampable" binding posts and 150W from another channel into the bottom does not mean you are pushing 300W into your speakers. The watts are not additive in that way.

    So how many watts im i running then?..
    Samsung PN50B550 Plasma
    Pioneer Elite SC-25
    Pioneer Elite BDP-23FD
    Adcom 7500 Amp-Panamax 4300 Conditioner
    Polk RTi10's Fronts
    Polk Csi A6 Center-Polk M60s rear Surrounds
    Klipsch Synergy Sub-10 X2
    Klipsch Synergy S-10 Premium back surround
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  • devani
    devani Posts: 1,497
    edited August 2011
    normal listening level?? maybe 1/10 of that....
    Video: LG 55LN5100/Samsung LNT4065F
    Receiver: HK AVR445
    Source: OPPO BDP-93
    HT: POLK SPEAKERS RTi6, FXi3, CSi5, VTF-3 MK2
    2Ch system: MC2105, AR-XA, AR-2A, AR9, BX-300, OPPO BDP-83
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