xover caps for 1Cs/194s

quadzilla

Anyone tried Clarity MR series in the xovers of 1Cs with the RDO-194? Improvement? Or no difference between the Claritys and Sonicaps? I've read the posts in the cap shootout where Claritys beat everything else, but I'm wondering of the 194 is enough tweeter to reveal a significant (doesn't have to be bang for buck big, just significant) difference?

And yes, for those who recall the thread, I'm leaning towards upgrading the 1Cs I picked up. Not sure if they'd been in storage a very long time or what, but after most of a week at high volume, they started sounding much better. Just never expected to have to go through break in on a 20 year old speaker, so my first impressions where somewhat, let's say, hastily taken.

Face

There is a night and difference between the MR's and Sonic Caps, no comparison.

quadzilla

Specifically, with the 194?

Joe08867

Not specifically with the RDO in General. They are very different caps.

The MR series is getting toward the extreme high end of caps. While the Sonicaps I feel are the best bang for the buck out there.

Price wise it is also the extreme. The MR's are almost 10 times the price of Sonicaps. Kind of like comparing a Yugo to a Caddy price wise.

Sonically, I think you would be absolutely fine with Sonicaps or Clarity Cap ESA's (What I have in my 2b's) but I think the MR's are overkill.

Face

There will be a difference, even with the 194's.

Toolfan66

Just do the HF with Clarity?? It would be serious money to do the whole crossover. If I was to do that I think I would want to build my own speakers and use some quality drivers and tweeters. of course I would need help with that project..

I have been thinking about putting the MR series in my DODD ELP..

Joe08867

Face wrote: »

There will be a difference, even with the 194's.

Care to elaborate. You aren't saying why or how. Your posts are like non-sequiturs.

I would like to know what you mean as well.

Face

Joe08867 wrote: »

Care to elaborate. You aren't saying why or how. Your posts are like non-sequiturs.

I would like to know what you mean as well.

MR's are superior in every way to Sonic Caps...more revealing, dynamic, better spacial info(better imaging, soundstage), and tighter bass. IMO, they're just as good as Duelund's CAST caps with just a slightly different tone to them. Don't get me wrong, Sonic Caps are good for the money, but you can't compare them to caps that cost 10x's as much.

The ESA is a good cap too, just not as revealing. The ESA sounds very similar to the SA and PX, but with better spacial info and tighter bass. When I have an open budget and space, I like to use MR's in the HF section with ESA's elsewhere. I'm currently trying to fit a 10uf MR, 5.6uf ESA, 27uf ESA, and 100uf ESA along with a few foil inductors in a 1ft^3 cabinet...not a fun project at all.

Getting back to the 194's, yes you will hear a difference between Sonic Caps and MR's with them, it may not be as apparent as if you were using a RAAL or ScanSpeak dome though.

Joe08867

Face wrote: »

MR's are superior in every way to Sonic Caps...more revealing, dynamic, better spacial info(better imaging, soundstage), and tighter bass. IMO, they're just as good as Duelund's CAST caps with just a slightly different tone to them. Don't get me wrong, Sonic Caps are good for the money, but you can't compare them to caps that cost 10x's as much.

The ESA is a good cap too, just not as revealing. The ESA sounds very similar to the SA and PX, but with better spacial info and tighter bass. When I have an open budget and space, I like to use MR's in the HF section with ESA's elsewhere. I'm currently trying to fit a 10uf MR, 5.6uf ESA, 27uf ESA, and 100uf ESA along with a few foil inductors in a 1ft^3 cabinet...not a fun project at all.

Getting back to the 194's, yes you will hear a difference between Sonic Caps and MR's with them, it may not be as apparent as if you were using a RAAL or ScanSpeak dome though.

Cool, thanks,

I agree on the ESA's. I have used MR's in the HF section before and they are amazing Caps. Like listening to instruments in a completely silent room. All you hear is the music and nothing else.

I am now thinking of trying MR's in the HF section of my 2b's with the ESA's left on the lows. Sounds like that would be a good mix.

I will say to the OP that Sonicaps don't always like being mixed with other caps. They kind of have there own sound.

quadzilla

If I went that way, I had looked at doing MRs in the high and mid section, with ESAs in the low freq by-pass. I wouldn't be mixing cap makers either.

My biggest problem at this point is that I talked to Madisound, and despite custom values being offered on Clarity's web site, Masisound says they can't get small numbers of caps. And clarity doesn't offer the values needed for the 1C. Yes, I know I could start paralleling values to get to what I need, but I don't like the way even mixing two different values of caps sounds. I don't have a problem putting to identical values together though. But doing that, I'm looking at around 900 bucks (about 500 to get 4 10mf for the mids) just for caps for 1Cs. Probably not worth it.

Anywho, thanks for the answers.

saemark30

So there is a big difference between the Clarity MR and ESA?
I guess the ESA is closer to the PX than the top line.

Face

quadzilla wrote: »

If I went that way, I had looked at doing MRs in the high and mid section, with ESAs in the low freq by-pass. I wouldn't be mixing cap makers either.

My biggest problem at this point is that I talked to Madisound, and despite custom values being offered on Clarity's web site, Masisound says they can't get small numbers of caps. And clarity doesn't offer the values needed for the 1C. Yes, I know I could start paralleling values to get to what I need, but I don't like the way even mixing two different values of caps sounds. I don't have a problem putting to identical values together though. But doing that, I'm looking at around 900 bucks (about 500 to get 4 10mf for the mids) just for caps for 1Cs. Probably not worth it.

Anywho, thanks for the answers.

The 1C is a 2 way, it's high pass and low pass only...no mids

I don't like splitting values either, a single cap always sounds better than multiple, especially in the HF circuit.

quadzilla

So looking at the schematic, I see a 20 mf in parallel with the stereo drivers, and a 40 in parallel with the dimensional drivers. From what I understand, that's to let 150 Hz and down go to all four drivers. So I probably didn't phrase the statement well, but the 12 mf and 4.4 mf in the high frequency section and the 20 mf in the whatever-you-call-that-section are what I was considering for the MR series, and the 40 mf in the whatever-you-call-that-other-section would have been from the ESA series.

So I'd need 2 2.2 mf (for the 4.4) and 2 10 mf (to make 20 mf), plus the 12 mf and an ESA 39 mf (since there's no 40 mf available), and that's too much $$$ (about $750 for each speaker) for caps. So with resistors and RDO-194s, about a grand for each speaker to upgrade them. And I'd still need rings, new end caps, redo the cloth sides, spikes, and probably a few things I'm not thinking of on top of even that. Doesn't seem like the most effective way to spend money. Unless I really, really wanted fully tricked out 1Cs. Which I kind of do, but not for that price.

So if I go claritycaps at all, it'd have to be ESA across the board, or MR in the high frequency section at most. And then I'd wonder how the MR and ESA would blend across the two different sections.

Toolfan66

I have some Short tube Dueland Resistors on order for my 1.2tl's I will let you know how that works out when I get them.

I have a full set of the long tubes but Mike (FACE) told me they would make some custom short tubes. so I decided to go that way. I did use the 2.7 Duelands in my CRS+'s and I am very hopeful in what they will do for the 1.2's.

The problem is they are so long and if the leads are not long enough it makes it a pain to get them to fit. I ordered my short tubes with longer leads as well.

They are pricey as well, put that with the MR's and you will be knocking at $1000 or better for just Resistors and Caps for one speaker. as much as I would like to do it it just seems to be crazy to put that much into these SDA's.

I say you better plan on keeping them forever if you do that cause you will never come close to getting back what you would have into them..

quadzilla

There's no way I'd even think about putting > 2K into these. I'd buy something a lot closer to the sound I'm after first. And 2K will get a fair bit of speaker on the used market.

Looks like if I do anything, it'll be sonicaps again. But the more I dig into it, even after deciding there's a lot I like about the 1Cs and that I'd like to upgrade them, it's just not going to be worth it and I'm better off getting something different as a starting point for the upgrade. After all, upgrading speakers isn't my hobby. Listening to music is my hobby. The upgrades are simply a means to an end.

Toolfan66

To bad we didn't live closer together..

quadzilla

Why's that?

Face

toolforlifefan wrote: »

to bad we didn't live closer together..

quadzilla wrote: »

why's that?

lol...

quadzilla

I seem to be missing the joke here.

thsmith

Maybe TFLF would buy your 1Cs

saemark30

Did you do the mod yet quadxilla?
I want to do the same and like to know your results.

quadzilla

No. Will take a while to get the parts together. I'm still waiting to hear back from Clarity directly to see if what Madisound said regarding custom values was correct or not.

Face

Last time I spoke to either source, it was something like 10 or 20 had to be ordered if you wanted a custom value.

saemark30

Who sells Sonic Caps?
Also good is Auricaps.

gimpod

Sonic Craft BTW: There still on sale for 20% off.

quadzilla

Face wrote: »

Last time I spoke to either source, it was something like 10 or 20 had to be ordered if you wanted a custom value.

Given that I'm going to have to buy 12 10 mf to get the values I need without pairing unequal values, it may be the same either way. At least then I could put the extras up on fleabay and get some money back.

quadzilla

Sooooo... It's an 8 week lead time on several of the caps, but Parts Connexion offers all the values needed for 1Cs in the ESA series. Hopefully, they'll be able to get other values as well with a similar lead time. I'm also checking to see if that's possible in the MR series. If it is, it looks like I'll be redoing at least the high section of my CRS+s too.

DollarDave

If you want to recycle your old caps, look me up. I ended up with another set of CRS+'s that I am working on refinishing, etc.