Wyred DAC-1 vs Benchmark DAC-1 (NON USB)

falconcry72

I'm in the market for a sub $1000 DAC, hopefully closer to 500-700.

I'm looking at the Benchmark DAC-1 and the Wyred for Sound DAC-1, both preferably on the used market.

I will be using my PC as my main source, but I will also be using a Musical Fidelity V-Link, which is a nice asynchronous USB to SPDIF converter, so for the purpose of this thread the afformentioned DAC's USB capabilities are irrelevant.

I have read numerous threads here about these two DACs, but the result is usually that the W4S DAC-2 is the way to go because of its superior USB connection, but that point is moot here.

So what I am looking for are listening impressions/comparisons of the two DACs through their SPDIF connections.

I am also looking at the Musical Fidelity M1 DAC; it's cheaper ($699 new), but I'm not sure if it's on the same level as the other two.

Other DAC suggestions are welcome! Thanks for the help!:biggrin:

SCompRacer

I have and like the Music Hall 25.3 DAC, $600 new. I think it performs beyond its price point. You don't need to run a pricey tube in it for it to sound good. Using the balanced out bypasses the tube circuit.

http://www.musichallaudio.com/detail.php?p=68

My digital music is hard drive based (flac) fed through a Squeezebox Touch to the MH DAC. The 25.3 will play high res files.

falconcry72

SCompRacer wrote: »

...You don't need to run a pricey tube in it for it to sound good. Using the balanced out bypasses the tube circuit.

hmm. I like that you can choose to use or not use the tube circuit. That would be fun to play with.

SCompRacer

I was bucks down when I bought it and have been very pleased with it. Doug (dkg999) put me on to it, and he has tried many DAC's. Once I finish my turntable build and sell my current table, I may try a pricey DAC.

punk-roc

someone else liked the Music Hall DAC here too.. pearsal maybe? I haven't heard it yet myself, but searching the forum for it would probably yield something useful

Jason

Poee7R

I would go with the Musical Fidelity, only because I dont know anyone else with one. That and MF usually makes excellent gear, really havent heard of a piece that let someone down. Everyone seems to sport the Benchmark and W4S stuff, and for good reason. But yeah my vote goes for the MF.


Dave

dorokusai

I have one of the Musical Fidelity M1 DAC's and it's excellent. We used it as CAF just a few weeks ago. I've never understood the hype about the Benchmark as it's just ok.

punk-roc

I would have liked to get my ears on that MF M1 dac before I splurged for the W4S Dac2.. i love the W4S, but would have liked to compare to the M1 first.. could have some new speakers too (instead of having to save! boo..)

Jason

Erik Tracy

No agenda, no affiliation - just fyi from another forum - semi-related to topic:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1311207842&&&/W4S-DAC2-vs-Benchmark-DAC1-my-observatio

W WALDECKER

I run a EE Minimax DAC with upgraded LME 49990 opamps and a BlackCat digital cable to my CDP and i love it.if you get a chance listen to one in your system

falconcry72

By the way, guys, this Musical Fidelity V-Link that I'm using is a really sweet little piece of gear.

Link:

http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/V-Series/V-LINK/v-link.asp

All it does is convert USB audio to SPDIF, both coaxial and toslink. It is asynchronous and does a great job. The free ASIO4all driver works great with it, so it's easy to run it in ASIO through Foobar and I would assume other media players that support ASIO.

Best part? It's only $169 bucks brand spankin new! Having one of these lets you use any number of non-usb DACs with a computer-based rig.

I bought a Musiland Monitor 02 usb to spdif conbverter for my dad a few months ago on heiny9's recommendation, but I almost bought the vlink at that time. I went with the vlink for myself simply because my dad already had the musiland, and I wanted to compare the two. They're both cheap enough that if one comes out the clear winner it would be easy to pick up another one. They are both async, but the musiland does have its own dac and analog outs whereas the vlink has no dac.

I'll try and post a comparison after the weekend. Initial impressions are very positive of both.:biggrin:

tonyb

I've heard more than a couple people dig that blackcat digital cable. Gonna give it a whirl when I get a dac.

falconcry72

dorokusai wrote: »

I have one of the Musical Fidelity M1 DAC's and it's excellent. We used it as CAF just a few weeks ago. I've never understood the hype about the Benchmark as it's just ok.

Thanks for the insight; there aren't a ton of reviews out there for the M1. Since I already have the V-Link, I would imagine there would be good synergy between the pieces.

How does the sound of the M1 differ from the Benchmark? How would the M1 stack up against a W4S DAC-1?

dorokusai

I think the W4S would probably edge out the M1 overall. I know I really liked the one I heard but wanted to try out the new M1 instead since it was a new model. As far as the M1 vs Benchmark, it just has more life in it. The Benchmark sounds sterile and the form factor compromises the components, although they're still top notch. And initial impressions were immediate with the M1 over the Benchmark, which I needed to spend a lot of time with to really get anything from it.

Any of those units would be fine and would blow the doors off anything not dedicated. I would suggest getting the one that you can find the best deal on and if you don't like it....move on to the next one. That's all I did and I'll most likely go to a W4S if I can get a smoking deal on it....or not, since some here already own it.

I'm interested in some Alesis/Tascam gear for another project, so I'm not sure I'll get more involved with DACs anymore since I have a good one. Benchmark has some other gear that's neat like the ADC1 USB and ADC16.

falconcry72

dorokusai wrote: »

Any of those units would be fine and would blow the doors off anything not dedicated. I would suggest getting the one that you can find the best deal on and if you don't like it....move on to the next one.

This DAC would be replacing the Parasound DAC-2000 Ultra in my main 2-channel rig. The Parasound is a nice piece, it ran about 2k new, but it's 12 or 13 years old, so I'm thinking a newer piece from a company whose known for their DACs would sound better.

I've got my eye on all three, so if I can find a great deal on any of them I'll pull the trigger... I can always get rid of it if it doesn't outperform the Ultra. I'm glad to here that the M1 is a serious competitor.

falconcry72

dorokusai wrote: »

I have one of the Musical Fidelity M1 DAC's and it's excellent. We used it as CAF just a few weeks ago...

Hey doro,

did you or do you use the M1 for any PC-based rigs? If so, did you or do you use its USB input? If you do, you may want to check out using the vlink -> M1, as it's asynchronous. I read in a stereophile review that the Musical Fidelity guy recommends that the M1 be used in conjunction with the vlink for optimum performance from a PC.

Here's one on ebay with a BIN of 139. That would make it 154 shipped. They usually run 169 plus shipping.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Musical-Fidelity-V-Link-USB-S-PDIF-Converter-NR-/300577896653?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45fbd6b8cd

PrazVT

I'm really happy w/ my W4S DAC-1. But, then again I'm still a bit of a noob when it comes to DACs, as my only reference point is a Cambridge DacMagic. Using Signal Silver ICs between it and the NAD 375bee + SB Touch and music is scary clear on the LSi9s

dorokusai

Falconry - I do but not all the time. I doubt I'll buy that based on a single recommendation and it's sonically just fine for me as it is now. Plus it wasn't mentioned at all when I spoke with my MF contact on some other issues. Thanks for the link and note.

Toolfan66

I'm happy with my W4S DAC doubt I will let it go anytime soon, something magical when used with a tube pre!!

falconcry72

Well I've read all I can on these 3 DAC's, and there's nothing else I can read that will lead me to believe that one will sound bettter in my system than the others.

I'm going to have to listen to all three in my rig.

I found a good deal on a Musical Fidelity M1; it should be in the rig this week. Next I will get a Benchmark DAC-1 and A-B the two. The loser will be sold, and I will then find a W4S DAC1, A-B the Wyred vs the winner of the Benchmark vs M1, then sell the loser and be left with a DAC that I will enjoy for years to come because I will know that I prefer its sound.

Let the games begin!!!:cool::biggrin:

Erik Tracy

falconcry72 wrote: »

Well I've read all I can on these 3 DAC's, and there's nothing else I can read that will lead me to believe that one will sound bettter in my system than the others.

I'm going to have to listen to all three in my rig.

I found a good deal on a Musical Fidelity M1; it should be in the rig this week. Next I will get a Benchmark DAC-1 and A-B the two. The loser will be sold, and I will then find a W4S DAC1, A-B the Wyred vs the winner of the Benchmark vs M1, then sell the loser and be left with a DAC that I will enjoy for years to come because I will know that I prefer its sound.

Let the games begin!!!:cool::biggrin:

Full pics and write up here - or it never happened!

falconcry72

Erik Tracy wrote: »

Full pics and write up here - or it never happened!

Will do! I think it will be a beneficial writeup since a bunch of people on here either own or have listened to the Benchmark and Wyred DACs, but fewer have listened to the Musical Fidelity M1.

I'm hoping to have the M1 by the end of the week, it just depends on the seller's haste to ship it.

When I get it I'll first A/B it with the Parasound I'm currently using.

pearsall001

punk-roc wrote: »

someone else liked the Music Hall DAC here too.. pearsal maybe? I haven't heard it yet myself, but searching the forum for it would probably yield something useful

Jason

I still have the MH 25.2 DAC & it does sounds very, very, nice. But always wanting to try other gear I had to give the CA DacMagic a try...am I glad I did!!! Coupled with the Yagin Tube Buffer & running a Black Cat Veloce digital cable from my SONOS to the DacMagic the sound is truly remarkable. The MH now has closet duty!!

tonyb

Phil, which Yagin tube buffer did you get ? I'm still waiting for reviews on Burson's new dac, it's between that and the w4s dac1. I saw Pacific Valve had a few different Yagins.

nspindel

Wow, how'd I miss this thread? falconry, I can't provide you with precisely the comparison you want, but I can come close. I just sold my Benchmark DAC1 Pre, in favor of my new Wyred4Sound DAC-2. I didn't use the USB, though, my source is a Squeezebox Touch that I connect via a silver coax cable.

For me it was a very close call. Listening to the W4S made me understand what people meant by describing the Benchmark as being on the clinical side, as opposed to the W4S being more musical. The Benchmark is incredible, but there's just a certain something about the W4S that is a bit sweeter. It's not a coloration or anything overly tonal, there's just a cohesiveness to the sound that I found a bit more pleasing than the Benchmark. I read a similar comparison elsewhere, and fully agree with what I read - the Benchmark draws your attention to the recording, where the W4S draws your attention to the performance. With the Benchmark, you hear a guitar, a vocalist, a bass guitar, drums, and keyboards. With the W4S, you hear a band. I don't really know how to describe it any better than that, but in my head to head comparison, the W4S was the winner. YMMV.

pearsall001

tonyb wrote: »

Phil, which Yagin tube buffer did you get ? I'm still waiting for reviews on Burson's new dac, it's between that and the w4s dac1. I saw Pacific Valve had a few different Yagins.

Tony, this is the one I picked up...http://www.pacificvalve.us/YaqinTB.html. I like the single tube version better then the twin tube unit. Just personal preference. It really does add that tube "balance" to the mix. It really plays well with the DacMagic & Sonos. I'm using the Black Cat "Veloce" digital cable which is material for another thread...it's that good.

Good luck on you DAC hunt. You have picked out two stellar units to choose from. It won't be easy that's for sure.

falconcry72

Well I picked up a Benchmark DAC-1 locally this evening and spent a couple hours comparing it to the Parasound DAC-2000 Ultra that I'm used to. It's too early for a conclusive write-up, but I will say that, at this point, there is not a clear winner. I wasn't expecting that. I was expecting the Benchmark to completely outperform the Parasound. Not the case.

I have wrist surgery tomorrow (motorcycle accident), so I may be too drugged for critical listening, but a lightly used Musical Fidelity M1 DAC will be here Friday. I will listen to all three all weekend and then post my conclusions, including setup configurations, music selections, pics and any other pertinent data.

Once I pick a winner of the three, I will off the other two, and then run the winner vs a Wyred for Sound Dac-1 in a head to head death match.:cool:

falconcry72

OK so now have the M1, Benchmark, and Parasound DACs setup. I've been listening all weekend, but I'm not quite ready for a writeup.

And to add a wrench to the plan, I will be throwing zingo's Audio GD NFB-7 into the mix instead of the W4S DAC. The NFB-7 uses the same Sabre ES-9018 chip as the W4S, but it appears to have crazy over built power supplies and great ouput section, but no USB, which is a non-issue for me since I'm using the V-link. I'm hoping the NFB-7 will blow the other 3 out of the water!:biggrin:

dorokusai

I doubt it but it's nice. You must have at least a generic statement of who you like so far....

nspindel

Don't think that since two DACs use the same chip that they sound the same. OPPO players use that Sabre chip as well, but I've read reviews comparing to the W4S and indications are that they sound very different. The W4S really is a masterpiece.

falconcry72

dorokusai wrote: »

...You must have at least a generic statement of who you like so far....

OK fine, here's a quick summup:

The Parasound is warmer, has a wider soundstage, and as a fuller bottom end than either the M1 or the Benchmark. The 2 newer DACs are both slightly smoother than the Parasound, and are less fatiguing at higher volumes. The M1 and Benchmark sound very similar to each other, but the M1 seems sweeter whereas the Benchmark is grainier, not in a bad way. Very, very slight differences between the two.

For my tests I've been using my PC with the foobar2000 media player in ASIO mode, to a Musical Fidelity V-Link, which has 2 digital outs, so the coaxial goes to one DAC and the toslink to another, then I run the 2 DACs via the same type of MIT AVT1 IC's to different inputs on my Parasound PLD-2000 preamp, and then on to the Parasound HCA-2200ii power amp. This lets me switch between DACs instantly with the push of a button on my preamp's remote. This ability has been invaluable. It makes me want to get a DAC with a remote so I can judge sources the same way....W4S D2?

After formulating opinions, I switch which DAC gets toslink vs coaxial to make sure that's not the difference, and so far I haven't noticed a difference between the two cable types.

I have been using Magnepan 1.6's 90% of the time and SDA-1C's 10% of the time because the maggies are more revealing.

So with this method I compare only two DACs at a time: Parasound vs M1, Parsound vs Benchmark, or Benchmark vs M1. When the Parasound is in the mix I'm limited to redbook sample rates, but when it's the Benchmark vs the M1 I break out the hdtracks. Both DACs have no problem locking onto 24 bit, 88.2 or 96khz material.

At this point I don't know which of the three sounds better, which is why I want the NFB-7 to smoke the others!:biggrin:

I like that the 2 newer ones can play hi res files, and I like that the M1 shows you what resolution it's locked onto; this helps ensure that the PC is configured properly.

Aside from the added features of the newer DACs, I'm not sure that either one sounds better than the Parasound for redbook material, just different. And if you're wondering if my ears work, I will say that when comparing any of the 3 external DACs to the Parasound CDP's internal DACs, it is like night and day difference, so I'm not completely tone deaf.