Does this have enough juice ?

matchan

I have an Onkyo 606 that puts out 90 watts/channel. If I get an RTI A7 (20-300 wpc), will my receiver do justice ?


For optimal listening, what kind of power do I need ? 120wpc or more ? Please share your thoughts

Almadacr

matchan wrote: »

I have an Onkyo 606 that puts out 90 watts/channel. If I get an RTI A7 (20-300 wpc), will my receiver do justice ?


For optimal listening, what kind of power do I need ? 120wpc or more ? Please share your thoughts

Speakers like the A7 like very much of clean power :biggrin: meaning that you should and it will help you to considered a receiver with pre-outs . If you like Onkyo check this Onkyo HT-RC180 , the good thing is that they are authorized seller by Onkyo , the bad is that they don`t ship to canada :mad:

cnh

+1,

Get an Onkyo 70X series with pre-outs and a used power amp of 200 watts X 2 for the A7s--you'll thank us later!

That RC180 is selling for a terrific price...basically a HT in a box version of an 80X series--I think?

You'll still need a power amp, though!

cnh

MADGSF

At low volumes your current AVR will be fine. If you want to crank it to 11 then you will need quality amplification. IMO quality is more important than quantity when it comes to watts. I would get a quality amp with 120watts/channel over a not-quality amp with 300 watts/channel.

Some amps to consider are B&K, Rotel, Parasound, Adcom, NAD or Proceed and many others I did not mention. Don't be afraid to go used as your dollar will go much farther. I have a B&K and am happy with it.

One other option to consider is to get speakers that are easier to drive such as the RTiA5 and a good sub instead of the A7.

matchan

I am looking for the best possible audio experience. Will an Onkyo 809 (135 wpc) give me stellar sound with the A7/9 or do I need to pair the 809 to something like emotiva xpc-3 ?

Or how about Yamaha A2000 ? (130wpc)

tonyb

matchan wrote: »

I have an Onkyo 606 that puts out 90 watts/channel. If I get an RTI A7 (20-300 wpc), will my receiver do justice ?


For optimal listening, what kind of power do I need ? 120wpc or more ? Please share your thoughts

In surround mode, it drops to 80 watts I believe. Anyway, every speaker benefits from quality power, which most avr's seem to lack. Yes you can run them off that avr, will they sound their best ?....no, but they will work for you.

matchan

tonyb wrote: »

In surround mode, it drops to 80 watts I believe. Anyway, every speaker benefits from quality power, which most avr's seem to lack. Yes you can run them off that avr, will they sound their best ?....no, but they will work for you.

What if I bi-amp the fronts ?

tonyb

matchan wrote: »

What if I bi-amp the fronts ?

We probably get that question 10 times a week since the marketing guru's decided to use that phrase.
Using a receiver for biamping is not bi amping, period, forget that marketing junk they shove at you. Your still using the same power supply no matter how you dice it.
You can run those speakers from the 606, you just won't get everything out of them that they can do. My advice is to stay on the lower end of the rti series, or if you go bigger to keep the volume down while you save up for a newer receiver with preouts to add an amp.
Good luck to you, and let us know what you wind up with.

matchan

so even if i sacrifice 2 channels in my 7.1 to "biamp" the fronts, i really wont see much gain ?

Almadacr

matchan wrote: »

so even if i sacrifice 2 channels in my 7.1 to "biamp" the fronts, i really wont see much gain ?

A emo XPA-3 will give you 200 watts at 8 ohm all channels driven , tell me what you think ????

tonyb

matchan wrote: »

so even if i sacrifice 2 channels in my 7.1 to "biamp" the fronts, i really wont see much gain ?

nope....it's not biamping anything.

matchan

i cant quiet believe it - biamping is a farce ??

So in theory, If I get a receiver like NR-809 or NR-3008 with 140wpc, then I am getting an increase of 50 wpc over the NR-606 which puts out 90wpc.

From what I understand,to double volume I need 10 times more amplification. With a 50% increase(90 to 140), how does it benefit the RTI a7/9 etc to put out louder/cleaner sound etc ?

If all receivers cant output the rated watts in full surround mode (thus the need for a power amp) , then do all of you with full range speakers use external amplification ?

adabro

As a reference for you matchan - I initially paired my A9's with the Onkyo 807 (also with the CSi A6 center, Monitor 40 surrounds and a powered sub).

I added an XPA-3 after a few months and did not really hear any difference. I've had the setup for about a year and a half now, maybe I would notice if I took the amp away, but I can't say it made a big change.

cfrizz

Welcome to Club Polk Match.

Receiver companies give out misleading statements as far as power goes. The truth is is that very very few will drive speakers to their full potential. This is why we always suggest that newbies get receivers that have preouts for separate amplification down the line. The more speakers you add the less power goes to each speaker.

More power allows the speakers to operate to their full potential no matter what the volume is. It's not just about loudness, it's about hearing all the details that are on the recording. Receivers don't have that power to give, so you don't hear those finer details.

Biamping off of a receiver is a waste of time since all you are doing is trying to get more power out of an already stressed amp within the receiver.

Get a reciever that has all the bells & whistles that you want it to have & then get a 5-7 channel 200wcp amp either new or used, and you can be done with this particular upgrade since you can use the amp throughout all other upgrades to your system.

steveinaz

When it comes to power, ask yourself 3 questions:

1. How big is the area
2. How efficient are my speakers
3. How loud do I want to listen

Then consider, every 3dB's of increase in sound pressure level requires doubling of the wattage. Here's an example of a speaker with an efficiency of 89dB @ 1 watt/1 meter:

dB SPL

---

Watts Needed
89dB

---

1 watt
92dB

---

2 watts
95dB

---

4 watts
98dB

---

8 watts
101dB

---

16 watts
104dB

---

32 watts
107dB

---

64 watts
110dB

---

128 watts
113dB

---

256 watts

You get the idea...

Jer.War

When I first purchased my LSI15's I was running them off of a Yamaha-RXV1700 reciever. The speakes sounded pretty flat and the bass has no punch. My Yahama allowed me to try bi-amping, so I did. I definately noticed a difference. It is not about loudness as it is about current. Speakers are an inductive load which require current to move the cone in and out. My yamaha has a discrete amplfier circuit for all 7 channels. The way I understood what I heard was that I was able to supply a bit more current to the speakers. Also the H.F and L.F drivers were now supplied by two different amplifier (current sources) circuits. Bottom line is it worked. However, past moderate volumes you could hear the limitations of using a receiver in this fashion. Bass would get sloppy, and sound was no longer balanced between the H.F and L.F drivers.
However, now that I had the money and oppurtunity to purchase a used B&K Ref200.2 the difference pretty substantial. Bass is tight and punchy, improved soundstage, much more balanced frequency response no matter what the volume
All recievers are not built the same, but if you purchase one w/ pre-outs you should be in good shape to upgrade in the future. Rome wasn't built in a day afterall...

steveinaz

Bass notes require a lot of power, this is where high current amp designs shine.

matchan

thanks all. I am planning to get an RTI A7 or A9 and upgrade my receiver (an Onkyo 606) to either a Onkyo NR 809/1008/3008. Each with about 135-140wpc.

The 3008 is a high current amp.

Will the 809/1008/3008 sufficiently drive the A7/A9.


Specifically will the 3008 drive better than 809 ?

Room is 20x10x10. Dedicated HT room. Sound treated.

For HT , I currently cannot listen at over 40 out of 70 (606 does not have reference level volume indicators).

So I am not necessarily looking for LOUDER, just CLEANER, BETTER, QUALITY.

For 2 ch music via ipod, I can crank it to 60 or so before I start to feel its really loud..

niente

So I am not necessarily looking for LOUDER, just CLEANER, BETTER, QUALITY

if this is the bottom line for you - follow above posts- pre outs and separate Amp
why spend more for recvr power you wont use - 809 and amp

good luck

tonyb

Adding an amp will definately get you cleaner, better quality,although that 3008 is plenty to drive those speaks. It's nice to have an amp for when you move up the speaker food chain and start getting into 4 ohm loads. Your call, you could swing either way.

rebuy

I don't think he's listening. I think he wants to run the speakers off a AVR, period. He keeps talking about running the system through the AVR with a Bigger AVR.

What kind of speakers do you have now?
If you're so concerned about the larger speakers, Why not go ahead and buy them and hook them up to your existing equipment and see if you like the way they sound. If you are unhappy about the way they sound after you buy them, then buy a bigger power supply.

It seems like a lot of people worry about the watts the speaker can handle.
You'll blow them faster from low power than high power.
I know you are talking about high power and high current and all Onkyo are considered high current amps, so the 606 you have is already high current.

You might not drive the receiver to clipping if you have more than 100 watts
of high current power. You'd be surprised at the way power is delivered from an amp to make a decent sound pressure in a given room. You'd need a power meter to understand and see for yourself what I'm talking about.

When taking about separates for large speakers like you want to buy, wattage is not the only factor, others factors are current and Dynamic Headroom. Polk builds a quality product despite the Chinese Connection.

If I was running large Polks, current and headroom would be more of a focus for me rather than watts alone.

matchan

Thanks all. The idea is to buy the best AVR I can afford as I know the 606 wont cut it.
The dilema comes to these 2 options

Best AVR I can afford today + Consider Amp in the future
Go Separates right now , Get a lower end receiver + Get Amp now!

Many people in this forum have reported not nearing a big difference with the RTI a7 and power amps (over Onkyo 809/3008).

Just want my dollar to go far...

cfrizz

I don't know what many people you are referring to, since they didn't post in this thread.

Just about all of us have told you what you need to do to get the best sound from any speakers you might purchase now & in the future with plenty of good external amplification.

If you don't want to believe/listen to it that's fine, it's your money & system.

matchan

Let me ask a specific question:

As far as the differences in amplification between the 809 and 3008 , the only significant difference is the high current feature of the 3008. If the watts are similar/same then is it fair to say that both amps will drive the RTI a7 the same in terms of quality ?

tonyb

matchan wrote: »

only significant difference is the high current feature of the 3008.

........and isn't current what makes most any speaker perform it's best ? You answered your own question my man.

Actually, it comes down to wanting great sound from a limited wallet, and thats cool,we all have our limits. You could go either way on the receiver,each on their own will drive the 7's fine. The 3008 will do it just a tad better though. You could always add an amp later when your wallet lets you if you go with a cheaper receiver,just make sure it has the preouts.

PrazVT

and FYI, even w/ a '125wpc' Denon 3311ci, my RTI A7s never sounded as good as when I got an outboard amp. Initially, adding a 250w x 2 (45 amp peak) amp introduced actual bass and soundstage to my music - I think my thread is still here from last year. 'Holy hell' was my reaction I think. Then upgrading to a 250w x 2 (60 amp peak) amp this year increased dynamics significantly and warmed up the high end a bit - so another incremental increase.

But as tonyb said ..you can always add an amp later, when budget permits. Just know that there is room for improvement.