Carver Amazings - initial impressions
*Disclaimer*
These are only initial impressions, I've still got a long way to go. For more definitive info, I'd defer to Tour2ma and/or the King of Carver Amazings - George Grand.
Ok, I spent a good deal of time getting them set up to the manufacturer's recommendations and I've spent the past 2 days running through a TON of material (the lovely Wendi is getting a little antsy for me to do some chores)....
First of all, Tour2ma hit the nail on the head, for symphony music, these are THE speaker to own. I've yet to hear a speaker handle large complex symphony music as well. The thing that strikes me most is that with most speakers, during a crescendo the soundstage usually expands as well (the converse is also true, when it gets quieter, I forget the term, the soundstage contracts) but not so with the Amazings. I've listend to William Tell and most notably the Telarc rendition of the 1812 overature about 10 times over today and that simply astounds me. You actually hear instruments getting louder and softer as you actually would live. Bad description maybe but hopefully you get the idea.
A lot is made of how detailed these speakers are and it's true. I was listening this morning to Bobby Short doing 'Tea for Two' (Telarc sampler disc #2) and I would notice as he was singing that his voice was varying in loudness from time to time. I listened to it a couple of times and damned if it kept doing it. It was driving me sort of batty really. Then it dawned on me, his voice was varying due to the distance he was moving back and forth from the microphone. I'd NEVER heard that before. Cool eh?
Couple of distracting things that I've noticed as compared to the DQ-10's. Vocals, for whatever reason, vocals seem a bit 'thick' and laid back. I wouldn't say unpleasantly so but for example, listen to Dave Matthew's 'Crash' on the DQ's and I get goosebumps. I just don't get that same magic with the Amazings. The Amazings produce a HUGE soundstage, a mile wide and 10 feet tall and everything seems to be placed appropriately but it doesn't seem to have the depth and three dimensonality that the DQ's do. The DQ's have an crispness to them in the midrange that the Amazings just don't seem to have. Before anyone thinks that these are in absolutely negative context, they aren't far behind the DQ's in these respects and are still WAY ahead of about any other speaker I can think of, especially at what they cost.
Having said that, I know I'm underpowering them. The m1.5t brings 350wpc to the table and these things swallow every bit of it. Soon, I'll have the m400's bridged at 500wpc, so we will see what effects that has. I'm also going to play with the placement and so fort a bit more, although at 120lbs each, there is a limit to the moving that I will do. I also think the size (or lack thereof) of my room may be a hinderance, but until we put an addition on the house, this is the best I'm going to do.
Anyhow, I'm just getting into them and am loving every minute of them. I'm hearing things that on recordings that I know very well for the first time. BTW, did I mention the absolutely RIDICULOUS amounts of bass that the Amazings produce? I doubt you could find a subwoofer produce the type of bass these things are capable of.
Back to the cave!!
BDT
These are only initial impressions, I've still got a long way to go. For more definitive info, I'd defer to Tour2ma and/or the King of Carver Amazings - George Grand.
Ok, I spent a good deal of time getting them set up to the manufacturer's recommendations and I've spent the past 2 days running through a TON of material (the lovely Wendi is getting a little antsy for me to do some chores)....
First of all, Tour2ma hit the nail on the head, for symphony music, these are THE speaker to own. I've yet to hear a speaker handle large complex symphony music as well. The thing that strikes me most is that with most speakers, during a crescendo the soundstage usually expands as well (the converse is also true, when it gets quieter, I forget the term, the soundstage contracts) but not so with the Amazings. I've listend to William Tell and most notably the Telarc rendition of the 1812 overature about 10 times over today and that simply astounds me. You actually hear instruments getting louder and softer as you actually would live. Bad description maybe but hopefully you get the idea.
A lot is made of how detailed these speakers are and it's true. I was listening this morning to Bobby Short doing 'Tea for Two' (Telarc sampler disc #2) and I would notice as he was singing that his voice was varying in loudness from time to time. I listened to it a couple of times and damned if it kept doing it. It was driving me sort of batty really. Then it dawned on me, his voice was varying due to the distance he was moving back and forth from the microphone. I'd NEVER heard that before. Cool eh?
Couple of distracting things that I've noticed as compared to the DQ-10's. Vocals, for whatever reason, vocals seem a bit 'thick' and laid back. I wouldn't say unpleasantly so but for example, listen to Dave Matthew's 'Crash' on the DQ's and I get goosebumps. I just don't get that same magic with the Amazings. The Amazings produce a HUGE soundstage, a mile wide and 10 feet tall and everything seems to be placed appropriately but it doesn't seem to have the depth and three dimensonality that the DQ's do. The DQ's have an crispness to them in the midrange that the Amazings just don't seem to have. Before anyone thinks that these are in absolutely negative context, they aren't far behind the DQ's in these respects and are still WAY ahead of about any other speaker I can think of, especially at what they cost.
Having said that, I know I'm underpowering them. The m1.5t brings 350wpc to the table and these things swallow every bit of it. Soon, I'll have the m400's bridged at 500wpc, so we will see what effects that has. I'm also going to play with the placement and so fort a bit more, although at 120lbs each, there is a limit to the moving that I will do. I also think the size (or lack thereof) of my room may be a hinderance, but until we put an addition on the house, this is the best I'm going to do.
Anyhow, I'm just getting into them and am loving every minute of them. I'm hearing things that on recordings that I know very well for the first time. BTW, did I mention the absolutely RIDICULOUS amounts of bass that the Amazings produce? I doubt you could find a subwoofer produce the type of bass these things are capable of.
Back to the cave!!
BDT
I plan for the future. - F1Nut
Post edited by TroyD on
Comments
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How inefficient are those things? 83-84 db?
Regardless, at *normal* listening levels, you should be more than fine with 350wpc. The biggest thing I think you'll notice when you go 'mono' on the twin 400's, is the seperate power supplies for each channel. It's bound to make a difference with all those big woofs. Open baffle, high damping = gold.
Welcome to the world of the open baffle. Even if they are setup per manufacturer specs, Bob never got to sit in your listening room. If you have these in your mancave, the room is just too small, period. Not that you can't tweek it out, and enjoy them, but they won't shine in that *little* box. (I have the same issue with my SRS 2's in my 'little box', but **** me running - I LOVE them)
Are you toeing at all? I think the general rule with OB designs is to keep em parallel to the rear wall, period. You start to toe in, you start creating weird angles, and 'pockets' for the back wave coming off those 12's. (esp if your room corners are only a couple feet away)
Glad to see you are enjoying them, you have a REAL find. I'm just mad I didn't bag a pair first. Now I NEVER will. I'll keep it as something to look forward to when I visit.
Cheers,
RoosterCheck your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service. -
85 db / 4ohm...so these things will suck some juice. The DQ's aren't exactly efficient but the Carvers (considering the bass response) are amp killers.
I've got them 20" from the rear walls, a foot from each side and 4 feet apart. I toed them in an inch (per the manual) I tried toeing them in more but that was bad. I'm play around with the toe a bit more, MAYBE tilting them more or less....We will see. Agree, the cave just doesn't do them justice BUT they will stay there for better or worse. Plus, the cool factor is astronomical...
I know you get mad and then get glad. Soon you will have your DQ-10's (allday allabout) and at this point, I woudn't go so far as to say that the Carvers embarrass the DQ's.
BDTI plan for the future. - F1Nut -
Hell, the DQ's are what, 86db? I remember them sucking the absolute LIFE out of a Wadia rig on my last demo.
I'd look at narrowing your sweetspot, and giving more room on the sides. I don't know though. The model you have actually used a crossover at 95Hz, if I'm not mistaken. With the ribbons on the inside, try both - closer together and farther apart.
I still wouldn't **** with Toe.
Got any damping in your room? Quilts on the walls, drapes, curtains, etc?
Cheers,
RoosterCheck your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service. -
I'm fairly certain, I've checked and re-checked my playbook here, that Mantis is supposed to step in right about now and set things straight.
Two Channel Setup:
Speakers: Wharfedale Opus 2-3
Integrated Amp: Krell S-300i
DAC: Arcam irDac
Source: iMac
Remote Control: iPad Mini
3.2 Home Theater Setup:
Fronts: Klipsch RP-160M
Center: Klipsch RP-160M
Subwoofer: SVS PB12NSD (X 2)
AVR: Yamaha Aventage RX-A2030
Blu Ray: Sony BDP-S790
TV Source: DirecTV Genie -
Very nice Troy. Glad to hear you're enjoying them. I know what you mean by being able to hear the dynamic range of vocals and instruments. I first experienced this with the ASL and it makes music sound that much more lifelike. Can you feel the air those monsters move like in live music? Let's hope the mids change to your liking after the amp upgrade. So when will we see some pics?:)
Maurice -
TD,
What you have observed so far matches my findings. I actually ran them with more distance from the rear wall and more toe than you are.
The placement of the individual instruments in the full orchestra was how they "rocked" me. Every instrument was exactly where it should be.
Try some solo piano on them and the DQ's. That was the one area I thought the DQ's still dominated.
Glad you're liking them. As if....
BTW, FedEx apparently took the weekend off, so expect a package Thursday. In time for a weekend of playtime...More later,
Tour...
Vox Copuli
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb
"Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
"It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
"There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD -
where's Mantis?
-
Don't start that crap man. Who cares! He's not here, isn't that all that really matters? Lets soak it up while it lasts.
So, Troy how those Amzings doing?
Cheers,
RussCheck your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service. -
O but I am..............:pDan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Amazings are doing splendidly.......spending some quality time with them. I would have to agree that these are one of the all around finest speakers that I've heard. Not perfect but clearly, very, very impressive.
BDTI plan for the future. - F1Nut -
I look at it this way,if the man is into whatever speakers/gear He finds.....well so be it.
Sounds like He is having a good time doing what He is doing.......Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Proud of you, Dan...
TD,
In what way or with what material have you found the CA's wanting?
Pics?
Sent you an e-mail on the 400...More later,
Tour...
Vox Copuli
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb
"Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
"It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
"There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD -
Tour2ma,
it's cool man.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Originally posted by Tour2ma
Proud of you, Dan...
For what, staying on his meds this time?Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service. -
For not disrupting a good thread with carry-over from past "encounters". I thought that showed a modicum of respect, or at least civility, that was noteworthy.
Wanna make something of it???
More later,
Tour...
Vox Copuli
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb
"Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
"It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
"There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD -
It won't last too long.
-
Basically it's like this..........
I post how and when I wanna post.I post exactly what I feel.I don't pull punches.I don't spare peoples feelings.
I also don't go around looking for trouble.This thead is about Someone getting a pair of speakers that HE loved for quite awhile.In my opnion,thats really cool.It doesn't matter that it's Troy despite our history.Truely it will never be RIGHT between US for OUR reasons.I think it should stay that way.......meaning between US.Maybe one day who knows really..........
That being said it sounds like He's having a blast.It's also nice to read that Someones wife allows them to play for extended periods of time.Anyone with a wife can really respect that........I do.
HE also owns many different pairs of speakers and can form really good opnions of each speaker,respect them for what they can and also for what there not.Learning,having a good time,enjoying what you own.....all good in my book.
Personally I'd like to read about Someone experienceing many different kinds of wire like this Person is doing with speakers........maybe only in my opnion but that would be a cool read.....
DanDan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Hey troy, maybe this will help..
left neg and right pos go to the speaker.. the middle 2 neg and positive get joined together..MY HT RIG:
Sherwood p-965
Sherwood sd871 dvd
Rotel 1075 amp x5
LSI15 mains
LsiC center
LSIfx surround backs
Lsi7 side surrounds
SVS pb12/plus2
2 Channel Rig:
nad 1020 Pre-amp
Rotel 1080 stereo amp
Polk sda 2B
kenwood grunt Tuner
realistic lab 450 TT
Signal cable IC -
OK, here is where I am the dumbass....
To me I read that as you DON'T put a jumper in the middle or at least that's the way I'm reading it.......I'm reading it that those two are connected to the chassis causing them to be inverted.
The way I understand it to work is that you would connect the middle pos and neg to invert the signal's phase 180 degrees but according to the label it's already inverted (one side says it's inverted...one isn't) so there shouldn't be a need to invert again.
Tour gave me the number to sunfire, so I'll call 'em tommorow.
I gotta get smarter about things like this.
Thanks for the pic faster...
BDTI plan for the future. - F1Nut -
Yeah, but if you invert it twice then it's 360 and right back as it should be and that's what you want because it's right and right is good and good is good... damn lost my train of thought. I think at "Yeah"... More later,
Tour...
Vox Copuli
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb
"Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
"It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
"There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD -
ok, so I DO need a jumper....
BDTI plan for the future. - F1Nut -
mmm interesting. I dunno exactly what the diagram for bridging looks like on the back of my M-200t, but I do know that I am bridging it and that I dont use a jumper and it works great. If you read that diagram as there being a jumper between the two posts that you have to add, then it would have to be a jumper that's also connected to the chassis, right, I mean thats how it reads with the ground symbol steming off the 'jumper' symbol. To me I think it's already connected within the amp, just rock and roll with the leads on the far terminals.
-
of course it will work with the outer leads connected.. i think a non bridgable amp can do that. its when you hook the inner pos and neg together that the channels are "hence the word" "Bridged".. To my understandings...
does your M400 have a bridge switch?? or is it the one without it?
try this link
http://www.lalena.com/audio/faq/wiring/
MY HT RIG:
Sherwood p-965
Sherwood sd871 dvd
Rotel 1075 amp x5
LSI15 mains
LsiC center
LSIfx surround backs
Lsi7 side surrounds
SVS pb12/plus2
2 Channel Rig:
nad 1020 Pre-amp
Rotel 1080 stereo amp
Polk sda 2B
kenwood grunt Tuner
realistic lab 450 TT
Signal cable IC -
I don't think you need the jumper. I just bridged my m200t (it's setup the same), and I didn't need it.
Cheers,
RussCheck your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service. -
yeah, actually i think the jumper is not needed after reading some things on a yahoo search...MY HT RIG:
Sherwood p-965
Sherwood sd871 dvd
Rotel 1075 amp x5
LSI15 mains
LsiC center
LSIfx surround backs
Lsi7 side surrounds
SVS pb12/plus2
2 Channel Rig:
nad 1020 Pre-amp
Rotel 1080 stereo amp
Polk sda 2B
kenwood grunt Tuner
realistic lab 450 TT
Signal cable IC -
Agree.... Looking at the pic faster posted, the "jumper" is also shown in the 2 ch schematic... and I am fairly sure it's not calling for an added wire in that case.
So it must be refering to an internally wired common ground.
That said... why would it be indicating a common ground between a pos and neg terminal???More later,
Tour...
Vox Copuli
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb
"Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
"It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
"There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD -
Because it's DC power, and the left ch neg terminimal is inverted.Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
-
So wired for 2ch service, if terminal colors are matched on the 400 and speakers the channels would be out of phase?More later,
Tour...
Vox Copuli
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb
"Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
"It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
"There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD -
Hell, I don't know man, I just said that **** 'cause it sounded cool.
Cheers,
RussCheck your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service. -
Oh youuuuuuuuuu.... you kidder you...
Actually I was on to you when you mentioned the District of Columbia...More later,
Tour...
Vox Copuli
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb
"Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
"It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
"There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
