So who's winnin' GSP or Shields?

Jstas

I think GSP will get it in a decision because, he's the current champ and the title rarely changes hands on a decision and he's very difficult to knockout or submit and that affects not only the ability of an opponent to score points but also to leverage some kind of effective game plan.

However, Shields is a physically larger and physically stronger guy than GSP. He's probably in possession of a skill set on par with GSP. He's a wrestler and a kickboxer and has a BJJ background. GSP though has several forms of karate, two different forms of jujitsu, Muay Thai kickboxing and he's also a pretty good wrestler. It's hard to compete against that.

Then again, Shields is no slouch. I mean, a guy doesn't get to a 26-4-1 record being a mediocre fighter. Especially pulling out wins against fighters like Dan Henderson, Martin Kampmann, Jason Miller, Nick Thompson, Paul Daley, Carlos Condit and Robbie Lawlor.

I think it could go either way but I'm leaning toward GSP but hoping for Shields.

exalted512

GSP. I'm not sure if there's a more physical/stronger fighter pound for pound.
-Cody

Jstas

exalted512 wrote: »

GSP. I'm not sure if there's a more physical/stronger fighter pound for pound.
-Cody

But there are. GSP fought Matt Hughes twice. The first time, Hughes submitted him with a pretty nasty arm bar that GSP just couldn't stop. Now, Hughes is quite old for a fighter at 37 but when Hughes beat GSP he was at the top of his game and the same age GSP is now. GSP was up and coming but he was in very similar conditioning just lacked experience. Matt Hughes got over on him and just out powered him for the win. GSP even said that was the fight that woke him up to what he needed to be to be a champ. GSP was competitive but Hughes flat out destroyed him in 4:59. GSP still lists Hughes as one of his greatest influences.

But the dude doesn't have to be taller than GSP. Serra is shorter. By like 4 inches I think. But Serra just outclassed GSP. He ran his mouth before and after the fight and really got under GSP skin but you gotta give the Long Island Loudmouth credit. He said he was going to beat the hell out of GSP and he did. GSP himself even said later that he was wrong in making excuses for the fight and Serra was just the better fighter that night.

He's since come back and beat both of them but they were still physically strong opponents that GSP struggled with. They were also his only two losses in his career but they were also the only two fighters who held a technical advantage over him. Hughes is, by far, the better wrestler when comparing him to GSP. Serra is, by far, the better striker when comparing him to GSP. Hughes beat GSP with an arm bar which is a wrestling submission move. Serra beat the ever living crap out of GSP with punches which is the hallmark of a striker. When he went back for rematches with both, he didn't let them use their strengths and he got over on them for wins.

Shields is taller and has to cut weight to meet his class requirements. GSP doesn't do much cutting at all. So while Shields weighs in officially at 170, he's closer to 200. He's physically more muscular although not as well conditioned as GSP. Add the height advantage and the fact that he's a very skilled wrestler and kick boxer and has one of the best BJJ trainers to ever hit the face of the Earth and Shields is a formidable opponent for GSP. He has a skill set that gives him a technical advantage over GSP in some areas. He has the recipe that Hughes and Serra had in their wins against GSP. What Shields doesn't have is the experience Hughes and Serra had and that makes for a pretty big question mark in the end.

Does Shields have what he needs to beat GSP? Physically, without a doubt. Mentally, I'm not so sure. This is a big fight, it's gonna get in his head. If GSP ends up struggling against him he'll make a mistake. If Shields has it going on mentally, he can capitalize on it. Whether he has the experience to recognize that or not is a different story. That was a big factor in the BJ Penn fights for GSP. Penn has raw talent that nobody matches, not even GSP. Penn also has a head like a rock and doesn't go down easy at all. But Penn has an ego and it's been his downfall on a couple of occasions. At least two of them were against GSP. He had opportunities to win the fights but for some reason either didn't see them or he let the hype behind GSP get in his head and he got scared. Either way, he lost and it wasn't because GSP was the better fighter technically 'cause I really don't think he was. BJ Penn beat himself as much as GSP beat him. If Penn wasn't so unsure about himself in those fights, GSP would be 19-4-0 instead of 21-2-0 and there probably wouldn't be as much hype around him right now.

Then again, part of being a great fighter is that mental aspect of the game and out of all the skills, strength and conditioning that GSP has, his mental state is what sets him apart from everyone else. In that part of the game, no one is his equal.

tx_polkhead

I am out of the loop in MMA but the last fight I saw GSP fight in the announcers were besides themselves as to how good a boxer, namely a jab thrower he has become. He was able to stay clear of danger thanks in large part to that jab, it was crazy quick and effective. Of course this being MMA anyone can get caught with those tiny gloves and it is lights out!

exalted512

Jstas wrote: »

But there are.

But those fights were what, 3 years ago?

I'm talking about the last year or so, I haven't seen anyone that impresses me more than GSP.

As far as Hughes being the far superior wrestler...not sure about that. At their first fight? For sure. Now? It's debatable. Everyone thought Koscheck would hurt GSP with his wrestling background...but to me, GSP not only out-fought him, but out-wrestled him.

-Cody

RuSsMaN

GSP is at the peak of his game. He isn't the same fighter he was with Hughes years ago. He was coming up and developing. I think it will be a great fight, what worries me for George is although he dominated Koscheck, he didn't finish him.

shawn474

After the Koschek fight, look for GSP to prove why he is the best pound for pound fighter in MMA. I see him coming out and punishing Shields and knocking him out in round 2. I don't really care for GSP because I am a big BJ Penn fan, but I have to admit he is at the top of his game and when he is focused there isn't anyone that could beat him in my opinion.

Jstas

exalted512 wrote: »

But those fights were what, 3 years ago?

I'm talking about the last year or so, I haven't seen anyone that impresses me more than GSP.

As far as Hughes being the far superior wrestler...not sure about that. At their first fight? For sure. Now? It's debatable. Everyone thought Koscheck would hurt GSP with his wrestling background...but to me, GSP not only out-fought him, but out-wrestled him.

-Cody

I didn't think Koscheck had a snowballs chance in hell. He's a good wrestler but not good enough to beat GSP. I don't think I ever thought that Koscheck could hurt GSP with his wrestling.

And I agree about Hughes. I made the point that he's older now and when he destroyed GSP, he was 29-30, not 37. GSP was 22 and in similar condition to now physically. Mentally he's a different guy.

RuSsMaN wrote: »

GSP is at the peak of his game. He isn't the same fighter he was with Hughes years ago. He was coming up and developing. I think it will be a great fight, what worries me for George is although he dominated Koscheck, he didn't finish him.

Eh, I don't think the inability to finish Koscheck will matter much. Koscheck, as much of an arrogant **** as he is, is a good fighter. He's fought 20 times between '04 and '10 (impressive for a 6 year career), lost 5. 3 by decision and only 1 by submission (to Drew Fickett who just outclassed him in every way) and 1 by "knockout". He's never been splayed out on the mat drooling on himself knocked out. The only knockout in his career was the TKO from Paulo Thiago and it was stopped by the referee in a controversial call. Koscheck was stunned and hit the mat but he wasn't knocked out. He clearly had his bell rung but he got right back up when the ref came running over and went after Thiago thinking the fight was still going. Even Dana White said that the ref probably made the wrong call there and should have let Thiago finish it. Everybody has said they doubt it would have changed the outcome though. The guy is tough, though. If it wasn't for that Thiago stoppage, he'd have 0 losses by knockout. TKO or otherwise. So GSP not being able to finish him is more of a credit to Koscheck than a knock on GSP.

Jstas

shawn474 wrote: »

After the Koschek fight, look for GSP to prove why he is the best pound for pound fighter in MMA. I see him coming out and punishing Shields and knocking him out in round 2. I don't really care for GSP because I am a big BJ Penn fan, but I have to admit he is at the top of his game and when he is focused there isn't anyone that could beat him in my opinion.

Honestly, the same thing could be said about Shields. He's coming off a win where he was something like an 11-1 underdog to Dan Henderson who, honestly, is likely heading to a Hall of Fame somewhere at some point. He also beat (barely) Martin Kampmann who was, honestly, next in line for a GSP shot before the Jake Shields signing. But Shields won and now Kampmann has to wait for Shields' turn and gets stuck fighting guys like Diego "WetDream" Sanchez.

Toxis

I don't think anyone in the weight class has a chance to take the belt from GSP for a while. I think he'll give it up and move up a class first. There's no challenge yet...

mantis

I think it's going to be a good fight if it can go to the ground. If it stays standing I believe George is going to knuckle Jake up. Jakes striking is not on the same level as Georges.

On the ground Jake has is best shot to beat George but thats not going to be a picnic. George is great on the ground and has spent less time then any other fighter being on his back.

If I had to buy money on the fight , I'm going with GSP.

exalted512

mantis wrote: »

On the ground Jake has is best shot to beat George but thats not going to be a picnic. George is great on the ground and has spent less time then any other fighter being on his back.

I think in general, if there was a fighter out there that could beat GSP based on skill and not blind luck, its Shields. I still dont know if it can be done though...not at this point in time.
-Cody

DON73

I like GSP. He's not the same fighter he was a year ago. Since his work with Roach his jab has become a very important part of his technique. I don't like the usual ground fighting or the fighting against the cage but I think GSP can hold his own however the fight goes. I like both of them but I think GSP will win.

m1aman

GSP will win. Shields is overrated. GSP is not.

Shizelbs

There is no stopping GSP. Nothing can calm the fury of his GSPness.

txcoastal1

GSP maimtained his title was looking to be very lopsided then GSP took a scratch to the eye in the 2nd then he lost confidence and vision. He maintained his defence but the fight was stale.

mantis

txcoastal1 wrote: »

GSP maimtained his title was looking to be very lopsided then GSP took a scratch to the eye in the 2nd then he lost confidence and vision. He maintained his defence but the fight was stale.

It's ok to say it , the fight sucked. Jake did his best to try and win the fight but GSP is just in another class. Even hurt and one eyed , he had no problem defending his title. Yeah it would have been a better fight if something exciting would have happened. GSP just kept Jake on the outside and never once let him put him on his back. GSP did however take Jake down a few times and Jake had no answer.

I think GSP should retire and train up and coming fighters. He has finished the 170lb devision twice over. No more to prove.

ViperZ

Welterweight title was the most fun out of them all... GSP-Shields was OK... IMHO, the moment of the whole evening was when Machida kicked Couture in the face - lights out!

mantis

ViperZ wrote: »

Welterweight title was the most fun out of them all... GSP-Shields was OK... IMHO, the moment of the whole evening was when Machida kicked Couture in the face - lights out!

I hated that fight , I didn't like the match up , I think Randy should not have taken that fight. it was a really bad matchup for him. Randy had nothing to prove or gain in that fight other then the sheer will to compete. Machida needs to keep improving , fight Shogun for the rubber and then go on to Bones Jones for the Title. Machida could hold that belt for a very long time with just a few tweaks in his game.

ViperZ

mantis wrote: »

I hated that fight , I didn't like the match up , I think Randy should not have taken that fight. it was a really bad matchup for him. Randy had nothing to prove or gain in that fight other then the sheer will to compete. Machida needs to keep improving , fight Shogun for the rubber and then go on to Bones Jones for the Title. Machida could hold that belt for a very long time with just a few tweaks in his game.

Oh, I completely agree that Randy should not fight. He had nothing to prove, but IMHO he hurt his legacy with this knockout (Dana White said when he was interviewing Couture after the fight, one of his teeth fell out...).

mantis

ViperZ wrote: »

Oh, I completely agree that Randy should not fight. He had nothing to prove, but IMHO he hurt his legacy with this knockout (Dana White said when he was interviewing Couture after the fight, one of his teeth fell out...).

Yeah Dana also said he was going to buy him a better one LOL. Chuck fell to his knees in the end of his career and I didn't want to see Randy do the same. But it's how it goes when you hold on for 2 long.

Randy needs to train heavy weights and make them better fighters. This is the calling I see him in.

ViperZ

mantis wrote: »

Yeah Dana also said he was going to buy him a better one LOL. Chuck fell to his knees in the end of his career and I didn't want to see Randy do the same. But it's how it goes when you hold on for 2 long.

Randy needs to train heavy weights and make them better fighters. This is the calling I see him in.

I think he'll just stick to managing his gyms and whatever other business he has (Xtreme Couture is actually a nice gym, the first one that they opened is about 10 minutes drive from us).

mantis

It would be nice to shake the mans hand and thanking him for so many great fights.

Shizelbs

After the Couture knock out to the face I kept singing Joe Esposito's "You're the Best" over and over.

Jstas

I was rather disappointed in the GSP fight. Shields seemed scared to go for a real take down againts GSP which I'm not really sure why. GSP doesn't have the greatest ground game. Actually, compared to Shields, it's kinda weak. I also think GSP was over-thinking Shields and giving him too much respect. Not that Shields isn't a formidable fighter but I think GSP was having flashbacks of Hughes and Serra, both of which he did the same over-thinking and over-respecting too and they mopped the floor with him. I would like to see another Shields vs. GSP fight 'cause now that they know each other, I think it'd be better.

I was disappointed in the Machida v. Couture fight as well. Not to discredit Machida but I think he got lucky. Machida did his whole Karate Kid thing, picked up one leg and Randy seemed to think the kick was coming from there so he started to duck...right in to the real kick. If Randy hadn't ducked, that would have been in his upper body and not a fight winner. It was funny though, Randy kept trying to tie up Machida against the fence and Machida would wiggle out like a greased pig. I made the comment that Randy was probably cursing at how slippery he was. End of round one, Randy sits on the stool, laughs and says "He's slippery!" Made me laugh. At the end of the fight Randy said to Machida "Nice shot." and from the look on his face and inflection in his voice, I got the impression that Randy was really saying "Ya got lucky, kid."

Jake Ellenberger pulled out a nice win too. That was a pretty exciting fight to watch!

Vladimir Matyushenko was also quite impressive and I think Jason Brillz, after losing to Little Nog and The Janitor consecutivly, he's going to take his more elderly opponents more seriously. At least I hope so because the look of disgust on his face at the weigh ins and just before the fight started was disappointing. He's a good talent with a bunch of potential, just needs to check his ego at the door or he's going to end up being taught more lessons in the future as well. If Dana doesn't boot him from the UFC first.

But, the fight that made that PPV, Aldo vs. Hominick. Aldo is good...scratch that, he's very good. I don't recall him facing a guy like Hominick before either. That fight was just unreal. I can't believe they let Hominick continue with that 2nd head growing on his forehead. Aldo was tuckered out by the second round and I was flabbergasted by the scoring. It should have been much closer and probably a split decision. Hominick took round 2 and he dominated round 5 to a 10-8 decision at least. Round 1 could have gone either way. Much credit to Hominick. He was the better fighter. Aldo just layed on him half the time until McCarthy stood them up. Lame.

Jstas

ViperZ wrote: »

I think he'll just stick to managing his gyms and whatever other business he has (Xtreme Couture is actually a nice gym, the first one that they opened is about 10 minutes drive from us).

He's got a movie/acting career as well. He also does voice over work for video games. He's got plenty to keep him busy. This last fight was the last of his contracted fights with the UFC and 2 years ago he made it clear that once these contracted fights were up, he was done.