PSN Blackout: You Get What You...Pay For

jbooker82

AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »

I think a bunch of data was stolen from credit card companies recently as well. maybe they need to jack up their credit card fees so that they can pay for a better storage and security solution :-)

Now where have I herd this logic from? It only makes sence accoridng to some people in this forum. All things can be cured for with more money. If something goes wrong is was because they didn't charge enough.

audio_alan

inspiredsports wrote: »

The problem is none of these companies can be forthcoming and honest as that would keep people from using their services. The volume of activity is already unfathomable, growing daily, and virtually impossible to fully protect.

Honest mistakes, software coding errors, hardware hiccups, hackers, dishonest employees and sites set up to intentionally capture data that will be misused (against you) in the future are now facts of life if you are connected to the Internet.

BINGO! I couldn't have said it better myself, Inspired. When you stop and think about it, it's kind of amazing that computers work as reliably as they do. There is an enormous number of lines of code that are running your operating system, device drivers, applications, firmware on devices, etc. All a hacker needs to do is cause a stack overflow, or find a tiny security hole, and **BAM**, you're owned! And once they're in, it can be hard to get rid of them.

Demi - Here's a question for you: Why do you think Microsoft releases O/S patches so frequently?

Answer: Because their O/S is full of holes, hackers are constantly exploiting those holes, and Microsoft continues to plug those holes. No different than what happened to Sony. Sony just got caught with their pants down and they're paying for it. It has nothing to do with it being a "free" service.

BIZILL

a point trying to be made is that IF sony had charged for the network access, they would have more revenue that they could roll back into overhead charges and beef up their system without feeling it would eat into their bottom line.

...not like they don't have enough money as is, though. either way, i'm sure top execs where thinking firstly and mostly about their bottom line.

PhantomOG

BIZILL wrote: »

a point trying to be made is that IF sony had charged for the network access, they would have more revenue...

and my point is in no way can you make that claim. When Sony released the PS3, it was $200 more expensive than the Xbox 360 which had enjoyed a full year on the market already, and $350 more expensive than the Nintendo Wii (which also has FREE network access) and was outselling both Sony and Microsoft COMBINED.

On top of that, you have a VERY long term goal of a format war between Sony's Blu-Ray tech and the competing HD-DVD. Sony knew that the PS3 played a vital role in getting Blu-Ray adopted by the market.

To simply say, "If Sony had charged for network access, they would have had more revenue" is complete conjecture, and invalid in my opinion considering all of the market forces at the time (then and now) and long term revenue goals. Its my opinion that Sony would have made A LOT less revenue overall from the PS3/Blu-Ray ecosystem had they charged anything for PSN access. But we are playing "what if" here and neither *guess* can be proven.

We know Sony got hacked. If Sony had devoted more resources to PSN infrastructure this *might* have been prevented. To try to extend that "what if" and blame for the hack to pricing models is just plain silly conjecture.

quadzilla

The problem was that the Sony exec in charge of the PSN network had exactly ZERO grasp of basic network and system security principals. He even went so far as to say that since users don't know what firewalls and patching systems are, why should PSN care? So, no amount of money will fix monumental stupidity of that gross level. further, it makes every point argued here completely moot.

cnh

Frankly, I've always 'believed' in the 'rationality' of business types. There are no irrational dimensions to economics. It's all 'transparent' and obvious. Choices made are always made to maximize profits...except when they're not? lol

You guys crack me up...it's like listening to a bunch of 'Fundamentalists' arguing about their 'faith'! Well...keep on 'believing' and don't look at the history of bad decisions and crashes that are endemic to a free market system and occur with an almost scientific regularity.

I find the entire argument above a bit less than convincing. One side, simplistically believes that if you charge fees for something you will 'actually' use those to benefit your customer? The other that Sony would take its beloved 'profits' from its overpriced games and hardware (and it surely has a lot of those now that most production is in China) and protect the customer with them. Ah such naivete. Seasoned business types are so unaware of history and 'always' argue from their 'personal' experience as though that counts for something in a world where paper money and investing in enterprises that have no resources and produce 'nothing' is a sustainable investment/profit model. Maybe someone should ask the 'Chinese' why they're kicking our A$$es? Is it because they 'believe' that such economics are 'always' (and I mean 'always' with no exceptions) rational or is it because they still maintain centralized caps and control over our beloved system of a free for all rationality? Got 'history'?

Keep on believing, unfortunately, Freud showed us long ago, that we are not as 'rational' as we would like to believe.

cnh

Upstatemax

I love how some people assume that IF Sony charged for PSN and possibly made more money from it, they would have sunk that money back into PSN...

Sony would have just padded the profit margins. Any GOOD business man can tell you that. :rolleyes:

I hate to break this to some of you guys, companies like Sony devote the LEAST amount of money to projects that they HAVE to. Untill this attack, Sony had zero reason/care to beef up PSN.

Sony is in business to make profits. If they charged for PSN, it would have went to profit margins, not upgrades to PSN.

PhantomOG

You're preaching to the choir. Most in this thread (if not all but one person) believe that the lack of or presence of a distinct network access fee has little if not nothing to do with what a large multi-national corporation would do as far as network security.

jflail2

I think this circle jerk has run its course...

BIZILL

PhantomOG wrote: »

To simply say, "If Sony had charged for network access, they would have had more revenue" is complete conjecture, To try to extend that "what if" and blame for the hack to pricing models is just plain silly conjecture.

...and i'm just a plain, silly boy. that's what makes me huggable, kissable and loveable. just ask sherard.:eek::biggrin:

let's get down-right super-silly then and say, for the sake of conjecture, that perhaps they should/could have charged like $25/year. that'd still beat out xbox.

i see what you're saying, and perhaps charging even $10/year would have cost them ps3 sales AND bluray format loss, but then are YOU not now the one building a case for conjecture????

awwww....grasshoppa.

oh, no, you di'int.
my two ps3's do media duty 95% of the time. screw sony, screw their psnetwork and screw corparate greed. i got bigger fish to fry in the form of single-handedly saving the world from ruin.

PhantomOG

You missed my point entirely. I'm not the one making conjectures and guesses as to what would have happened if Sony did this or that differently on their pricing scheme.

I and just about everyone else in this thread agrees that how Sony chooses to price their PS3 ecosystem has little (if not none whatsoever) impact on what a bunch of *apparently* incompetent network engineers decided to do as far as network security.

My secondary point is, you cannot with even close to any certainty, say Sony would be in financially better shape had they chosen to enact a network access fee. For the many reasons I've pointed out Sony could just as easily have been in worse shape financially *if* certain things had happened as a result of a network access fee.

I cannot break it down any simpler than that. Apparently 99% of the people in this thread understand and agree with the above, so we are just beating a dead horse.

BIZILL

Your panties are getting twisted over me too now? Lol. It's all good. I see all sides of the arguement, or lack there of. Either way, i can see the execs at sony telling themselves AND loyal customers, "oh well, it was free." Or at least to an extent. Also customers would have even more fuel to set afire had their info been breached EVEN THOUGH they paid to use the sony online system. perhaps that would have led sony execs to think less of bottom lines and more about offering a closer to approaching an inpenetrable system.

Or not. Don't lose sleep over this, that is, unless you had info exposed. Anyway, you can call me a liar if you want, but i never felt comfortable placing my credit info on the psn network, but i have on the 360. Think about that awhile if you wish. Or don't. My point is that i do see demi's point. I also see yours. In the end i make up my own decisions based on what i feel.

PhantomOG

BIZILL wrote: »

Your panties are getting twisted over me too now?

Nope, not at all. I'm just calmly discussing the issue brought up in the thread. Perhaps I'm sensing a little projection here?

BIZILL

You're mistaking that by what you've read in my sig. You're feelin' the love for the Panny vs panties. Ah, SNAP!

LessisNevermore

Panties......not the best thing in the world, but right next to it.

kuntasensei

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/44386/Rockstar-PS3s-are-overheating
Brilliant, Sony. Just brilliant.

jflail2

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2385557,00.asp

And the hits keep coming.....

cnh

kuntasensei wrote: »

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/44386/Rockstar-PS3s-are-overheating
Brilliant, Sony. Just brilliant.

Thanks! I'm glad I picked this link up. I own an older fat model so I definitely want to wait that 'latest' upgrade out!

What a mess this is turning into.

cnh

Face

kuntasensei wrote: »

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/44386/Rockstar-PS3s-are-overheating
Brilliant, Sony. Just brilliant.

If Sony charged for updates that wouldn't have happened. :biggrin:

audio_alan

kuntasensei wrote: »

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/44386/Rockstar-PS3s-are-overheating
Brilliant, Sony. Just brilliant.

Looks like Rockstar falsely accused the PS3. L.A. Noire is overheating XBox360's as well. Rockstar has since retracted the statement and apologized:

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1585617&postcount=36

digitalvideo

CLAIM: Hackers Attack SONY Network -- Again!

Hackers attack another Sony network, post data

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/02/us-sony-idUSTRE74Q1EC20110602

digitalvideo

More than million users and customers unprotected...

http://blogs.forbes.com/parmyolson/2011/06/02/lulzsec-hackers-purge-sonypictures-com/

kuntasensei

It's going to be fun to watch Sony's press conference at E3 next week. I imagine it will be a whole lot of apologizing. Heh...

Face

Another service Sony should have charged for. :biggrin:

jbooker82

It is a cat and mouse game dealing with hackers. Throwing money at it wont make it go away.

BIZILL

honestly, though, all hackers should die.

ysss

A hacker's skill is the same as a security expert's skill. (roughly speaking).

Many (all?) of the best security experts today started out as 'hackers'.

kuntasensei

They really should take a page from Microsoft's book. MS had a 14 year old hacker get into one of their systems... so they're helping him cultivate his skills. Sony's mistake was in alienating that entire community by pissing off the people who bought the PS3 to use for homebrew/Linux purposes. Had they never removed the option in firmware to run another OS, the GeoHotz incident wouldn't have occurred and they wouldn't be the giant target they are now.

Toxis

I've always wondered why Sony didn't offer GeoHotz a job. If he's THAT good with the PS3 or iOS devices, imagine what he could do on the front end.

digitalvideo

One in four US hackers 'is an FBI informer'

The FBI and US secret service have used the threat of prison to create an army of informers among online criminals...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/jun/06/us-hackers-fbi-informer