PSN Blackout: You Get What You...Pay For

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  • AsSiMiLaTeDAsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,717
    edited April 2011
    No... but having that IT staff could very well mean that you don't wait A FULL WEEK to tell your customers about a breach in security that may have resulted in their personal info getting leaked into the wild... or you having to call in an external security company to fix weaknesses in your system that your IT staff could have been dealing with all along.
    I disagree, having the staff should have no bearing on how quickly they notify us or own up to the issue. I'll agree that it can affect how quickly they can fix it, but not how quickly they tell us about it.

    Sony's got plenty of money, if they wanted an IT staff they'd have one, I believe there's little or no correlation between charging for service and being more secure.
  • slk55amgslk55amg Posts: 305
    edited April 2011
    I am a long time Sony fan, bought my first Trinitron in 1972. As you can see from my signature I remain a Sony guy. My next tv will be the top of the line bravia xbr, whenever that may be. That being said, I am not at all impressed with the way Sony has handled this matter.
    Emotiva XPA5, Sony ES 5300,: Lsi 15,s LSIC, Monitor 70,s, ( side surrounds) FXI 3,s, (rear surrounds)Micropro4000, Velodyne DEQ 10, Sony 55inchXBR 930D Sony BDP 790 Bedroom rig SonyES 3200 RTIA1,s CSIA4 FXI3,s polk PSW 10 SONY 34inch XBR960:cool:SONY BDP550
  • PhantomOGPhantomOG Posts: 2,422
    edited April 2011
    slk55amg wrote: »
    I am a long time Sony fan, bought my first Trinitron in 1972. As you can see from my signature I remain a Sony guy. My next tv will be the top of the line bravia xbr, whenever that may be. That being said, I am not at all impressed with the way Sony has handled this matter.

    Seriously. Have they even really "notified" anyone yet directly? I have not received even an email. Then again, from what I've read in the news, I'm not exactly scared of anything bad happening, but its seems completely idiotic that Sony hasn't at least sent out a mass mailing to PSN users.
  • AsSiMiLaTeDAsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,717
    edited April 2011
    ^^^ my CC got hit....
  • kuntasenseikuntasensei Posts: 3,270
    edited April 2011
    I disagree, having the staff should have no bearing on how quickly they notify us or own up to the issue. I'll agree that it can affect how quickly they can fix it, but not how quickly they tell us about it.
    It has a direct bearing on how quickly they KNOW about the issue so that they CAN inform the end users. As Sony rep Patrick Seybold said:
    There?s a difference in timing between when we identified there was an intrusion and when we learned of consumers? data being compromised. We learned there was an intrusion April 19th and subsequently shut the services down. We then brought in outside experts to help us learn how the intrusion occurred and to conduct an investigation to determine the nature and scope of the incident. It was necessary to conduct several days of forensic analysis, and it took our experts until yesterday to understand the scope of the breach. We then shared that information with our consumers and announced it publicly this afternoon.

    So it took them 2 days to figure out that there was an intrusion into their system... and then several more days for the OUTSIDE company they brought in to identify the damage so they could inform consumers. And you don't think that having an on-site staff would have streamlined that process? You don't think that having a team monitoring internal traffic would have identified the intrusion sooner and mitigated the damage? C'mon... that's just common sense. Again, not saying it matters whether they charge for the service... but they should have had this type of security in place IN HOUSE before this.
    Equipment list:
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  • cnhcnh Posts: 13,310
    edited April 2011
    Yes, I have a PS3. No, I don't use online gaming...just my own discs. XBOX users...right--one word for you all Quality MS 'reliability'. lol

    Why is it that some of you 'blindly' believe that 'everything' is about 'money'?? Beats me when companies throughout are always trying to give you LESS for MORE money? And that's actually deemed a good business model. Personally I'm not a money guy fundamentalist--there are more factors involved in Economics than Economics themselves. Nothing is 'purely' economic in any 'rational' way that doesn't contain other conflicting and contradictory factors.

    Ciao!

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
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  • PhantomOGPhantomOG Posts: 2,422
    edited April 2011
    And you don't think that having an on-site staff would have streamlined that process? You don't think that having a team monitoring internal traffic would have identified the intrusion sooner and mitigated the damage?

    Obviously you think Sony has no on-site IT staff for PSN. Is this some known fact I'm unaware of? Did they just hire some intern to code-up the entire PSN infrastructure, then let him go, and let the program run free? :rolleyes:
  • AsSiMiLaTeDAsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,717
    edited April 2011
    Yeah I don't believe a word from Sony on this. I think they knew about it from day 1 and were just trying to figure out how to break the news....

    If I believe what they are saying then yes having that in house would have helped. Although if they are cheap or stupid enough to not already have that then I doubt taking ,oney from customers would have helped the situation very much.
  • PhantomOGPhantomOG Posts: 2,422
    edited April 2011
    cnh wrote: »
    Yes, I have a PS3. No, I don't use online gaming...just my own discs. XBOX users...right--one word for you all Quality MS 'reliability'. lol

    If MS had only charged the same amount for the Xbox 360 as Sony did for the PS3, they never would have had the red ring of death issue!!!!!
  • AsSiMiLaTeDAsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,717
    edited April 2011
    PhantomOG wrote: »
    If MS had only charged the same amount for the Xbox 360 as Sony did for the PS3, they never would have had the red ring of death issue!!!!!
    That's probably a good analogy
  • slk55amgslk55amg Posts: 305
    edited April 2011
    PhantomOG wrote: »
    Seriously. Have they even really "notified" anyone yet directly? I have not received even an email. Then again, from what I've read in the news, I'm not exactly scared of anything bad happening, but its seems completely idiotic that Sony hasn't at least sent out a mass mailing to PSN users.
    I have not been notified, read latest on Sony website, as a "sony fan" I find it not understandable, why they have not sent out an email to their customer base.
    Emotiva XPA5, Sony ES 5300,: Lsi 15,s LSIC, Monitor 70,s, ( side surrounds) FXI 3,s, (rear surrounds)Micropro4000, Velodyne DEQ 10, Sony 55inchXBR 930D Sony BDP 790 Bedroom rig SonyES 3200 RTIA1,s CSIA4 FXI3,s polk PSW 10 SONY 34inch XBR960:cool:SONY BDP550
  • kuntasenseikuntasensei Posts: 3,270
    edited April 2011
    PhantomOG wrote: »
    Obviously you think Sony has no on-site IT staff for PSN. Is this some known fact I'm unaware of? Did they just hire some intern to code-up the entire PSN infrastructure, then let him go, and let the program run free? :rolleyes:

    Oh, I'm sure they have on-site IT staff for PSN just by its very nature. But obviously not good enough, since they had to call in an external security firm to figure this nonsense out. My point remains.
    Equipment list:
    Onkyo TX-NR3010 9.2 AVR
    Emotiva XPA-3 amp
    Polk RTi70 mains, CSi40 center, RTi38 surrounds, RTi28 rears and heights
    SVS 20-39CS+ subwoofer powered by Crown XLS1500
    Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player
    DarbeeVision DVP5000 video processor
    Epson 8500UB 1080p projector
    Elite Screens Sable 120" CineWhite screen
  • DemiurgeDemiurge Posts: 11,873
    edited April 2011
    PhantomOG wrote: »
    So I'm to believe as long as anyone out there charges a $50 a year service fee for their servers, they can expect the same level of security as a native company own Microsoft server? That's really all of you think MS?

    I'm sorry, but what?

    PhantomOG wrote: »
    It seems like every month we hear about another large security breach somewhere. Do you not see these stories? I'm not saying its excusable. But I'm also not naive enough to believe that all a company has to do is charge a "special" fee and hire enough IT guys and magically everything is 100% secure.

    I'm not either, but you're posting like a pyromaniac in a field of straw men. When has anyone argued that charging for a service means that service can never be vulnerable?

    People buy security all the time, it's called insurance.

    Sorry to be a dick, but without quantifying it, do you comprehend that there's a difference between no security, a little security, some security, and a lot of security?

    It's rather clear that Sony's security was not sufficient.
    PhantomOG wrote: »
    EXACTLY! The issue at hand is extremely multifaceted, but you'd have us ignore that and say "If Sony charged a fee like MS, this never would have happened."

    You put quotes on it, but that's not something I have ever said.

    All I said is you get what you pay for, and in this case, you did.
  • jbooker82jbooker82 Posts: 1,628
    edited April 2011
    PhantomOG wrote: »
    If MS had only charged the same amount for the Xbox 360 as Sony did for the PS3, they never would have had the red ring of death issue!!!!!

    Yea I guess you get what you pay for, or that is what I'm told any way.
    AVR: Onkyo Tx-NR808
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    Fronts: Polk RTI A7 (modded by Trey VR3)
    Center: CSI A4 (modded by Trey VR3)
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  • AnonymooseAnonymoose Posts: 6
    edited April 2011
    Joined this site just to throw in my 2 cents.
    I personally have a ps3. I have tried both, and my preference is the ps3.
    You seem to be doing a bit much to focus on the whole "get what you pay for" thing, but so what? One isn't really better than the other. As far as security, you're talking about comparing it to a console designed by Microsoft. You know, the people that make computers with the highest number of viruses? And as far as problems go with the ps3, there aren't really many. Yes, we are having down time with it. But the thing is there are times where a company will call in specialists to make absolutely certain that their servers are 100% secure.
    At least with ps3, I don't have to worry about censoring myself so I don't get banned. Plus, having played on both, there are a lot less dicks that you run into.
    As far as security, it took a huge group to DDOS PSN to take it down. In 2008, it took 3 people to at least disrupt Xbox Live and even take out a couple services.
    Plus we don't have moderators like this one (The Pro).

    So it's not a matter of you get what you pay for.
  • PhantomOGPhantomOG Posts: 2,422
    edited April 2011
    And you keep sidestepping every point I make that points out the obvious flaws in your argument.
    Demiurge wrote: »
    I can't feel sorry for PS3 owners who game online and are getting what they paid for. What gripe do they have when they haven't invested anything in a service that everyone else charges for? Free online gaming is only a selling point if free is actually a good value. It's not.

    This is why XBox Live users don't complain when we willingly shell out $50 a year to have access to other gamers the world over and top shelf content. It's a good value, and if XBox Live ever went down, the customers would have a legitimate gripe because they're actually paying for a service as opposed to leaching off a free one.

    Yes, this is an "I told you so," thread, since all we ever hear about is that PSN is free and that's supposedly a good thing. Having gamed on PSN, it sucks.

    You did say the above. Are you so obtuse to think that people who paid $600 for a console, and probably hundreds more through PSN on games/movies/etc. have no cause to complain about Sony getting hacked? Really?? I know you are smarter than that. Sony is going to get dragged through the coals for this and rightfully so. Just because they didn't charge people specifically a fee to access PSN does not absolve them of anything. It would have to for your argument to make any sense.

    There are plenty of examples of products and services that offer network access and store people's sensitive information for no ongoing additional fee. This does NOT make the companies offering those products and services any less culpable or interested in preserving their customers privacy.
  • AsSiMiLaTeDAsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,717
    edited April 2011
    ^^^ That's the best response I've seen thus far. It's basically what I was trying to say when I posted, just better phrased.
  • AsSiMiLaTeDAsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,717
    edited April 2011
    I thought this quote was interesting, wonder if its actually correct or not
    The UK Information Commissioner’s Office said it was contacting Sony and noted companies were legally obliged to keep data secure. Sony declined to give details of the attack or say whether the personal information had been encrypted.

    Article HERE
  • PhantomOGPhantomOG Posts: 2,422
    edited April 2011
    Demiurge wrote: »
    I can't feel sorry for PS3 owners who game online and are getting what they paid for. What gripe do they have when they haven't invested anything in a service that everyone else charges for?

    Two game console makers competing against each other. One chooses to incorporate network costs into hardware and software charges to the customer. The other chooses to have a fee to access the network.

    As a consumer, I prefer not have monthly costs so I chose Sony. Now you are basically saying I *deserve* this? F' that. :mad:
  • aboroth00aboroth00 Posts: 1,081
    edited April 2011
    Both companies have billions in revenue and are big players in most electronics we know. Subscription service or not... this should've never happened. If it had happened to XBL, would it be less acceptable? No. The end. This should never have happened and that's the bottom line, no matter how much or how little you paid.
    2Ch Tube Audio Convert
  • ysssysss Posts: 213
    edited April 2011
    PhantomOG wrote: »
    If MS had only charged the same amount for the Xbox 360 as Sony did for the PS3, they never would have had the red ring of death issue!!!!!

    Demi, why have you changed side?

    O wait, you just SOUND like demi cause you used the same logic! lol me
  • fatchowmeinfatchowmein Posts: 2,642
    edited April 2011
    I can't recall if I entered a credit card number on the PSN. Was it mandatory? Anyhow, this just came in.
    Valued PlayStation(R)Network/Qriocity Customer:
    We have discovered that between April 17 and April 19, 2011, certain PlayStation Network and Qriocity service user account information was compromised in connection with an illegal and unauthorized intrusion into our network. In response to this intrusion, we have:

    1) Temporarily turned off PlayStation Network and Qriocity services;
    2) Engaged an outside, recognized security firm to conduct a full and complete investigation into what happened; and
    3) Quickly taken steps to enhance security and strengthen our network infrastructure by rebuilding our system to provide you with greater protection of your personal information.

    We greatly appreciate your patience, understanding and goodwill as we do whatever it takes to resolve these issues as quickly and efficiently as practicable.

    Although we are still investigating the details of this incident, we believe that an unauthorized person has obtained the following information that you provided: name, address (city, state, zip), country, email address, birthdate, PlayStation Network/Qriocity password and login, and handle/PSN online ID. It is also possible that your profile data, including purchase history and billing address (city, state, zip), and your PlayStation Network/Qriocity password security answers may have been obtained. If you have authorized a sub-account for your dependent, the same data with respect to your dependent may have been obtained. While there is no evidence at this time that credit card data was taken, we cannot rule out the possibility. If you have provided your credit card data through PlayStation Network or Qriocity, out of an abundance of caution we are advising you that your credit card number (excluding security code) and expiration date may have been obtained.

    For your security, we encourage you to be especially aware of email, telephone and postal mail scams that ask for personal or sensitive information. Sony will not contact you in any way, including by email, asking for your credit card number, social security number or other personally identifiable information. If you are asked for this information, you can be confident Sony is not the entity asking. When the PlayStation Network and Qriocity services are fully restored, we strongly recommend that you log on and change your password. Additionally, if you use your PlayStation Network or Qriocity user name or password for other unrelated services or accounts, we strongly recommend that you change them as well.

    To protect against possible identity theft or other financial loss, we encourage you to remain vigilant, to review your account statements and to monitor your credit reports. We are providing the following information for those who wish to consider it:

    - U.S. residents are entitled under U.S. law to one free credit report annually from each of the three major credit bureaus. To order your free credit report, visit www.annualcreditreport.com or call toll-free (877) 322-8228.

    - We have also provided names and contact information for the three major U.S. credit bureaus below. At no charge, U.S. residents can have these credit bureaus place a "fraud alert" on your file that alerts creditors to take additional steps to verify your identity prior to granting credit in your name. This service can make it more difficult for someone to get credit in your name. Note, however, that because it tells creditors to follow certain procedures to protect you, it also may delay your ability to obtain credit while the agency verifies your identity. As soon as one credit bureau confirms your fraud alert, the others are notified to place fraud alerts on your file. Should you wish to place a fraud alert, or should you have any questions regarding your credit report, please contact any one of the agencies listed below:

    Experian: 888-397-3742; www.experian.com; P.O. Box 9532, Allen, TX 75013
    Equifax: 800-525-6285; www.equifax.com; P.O. Box 740241, Atlanta, GA 30374-0241
    TransUnion: 800-680-7289; www.transunion.com; Fraud Victim Assistance Division, P.O. Box 6790, Fullerton, CA 92834-6790

    - You may wish to visit the website of the U.S. Federal Trade Commission at www.consumer.gov/idtheft or reach the FTC at 1-877-382-4357 or 600 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Washington, DC 20580 for further information about how to protect yourself from identity theft. Your state Attorney General may also have advice on preventing identity theft, and you should report instances of known or suspected identity theft to law enforcement, your State Attorney General, and the FTC. For North Carolina residents, the Attorney General can be contacted at 9001 Mail Service Center, Raleigh, NC 27699-9001; telephone (877) 566-7226; or www.ncdoj.gov. For Maryland residents, the Attorney General can be contacted at 200 St. Paul Place, 16th Floor, Baltimore, MD 21202; telephone: (888) 743-0023; or www.oag.state.md.us.

    We thank you for your patience as we complete our investigation of this incident, and we regret any inconvenience. Our teams are working around the clock on this, and services will be restored as soon as possible. Sony takes information protection very seriously and will continue to work to ensure that additional measures are taken to protect personally identifiable information. Providing quality and secure entertainment services to our customers is our utmost priority.

    Please contact us at 1-800-345-7669 should you have any additional questions.

    Sincerely, Sony Computer Entertainment and Sony Network Entertainment
  • AsSiMiLaTeDAsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,717
    edited April 2011
    I find the quote below from Sony very funny. They 'know' (and now so do I after the issue with my account) taht the CC information was taken. They just don't want to come out and admit it outright.

    If they 'know' enough to say that the CCV on the card was not obtained then they know enough about their data structure and know what was taken and that this information includes the CC info.

    I'm normally in the 'its no big deal people overreact way too much' camp, but not on this one. Given the manner in which Sony has handled this situation, they're going to have to work very hard to earn my trust, and thereby my money, again.
    While there is no evidence at this time that credit card data was taken, we cannot rule out the possibility. If you have provided your credit card data through PlayStation Network or Qriocity, out of an abundance of caution we are advising you that your credit card number (excluding security code) and expiration date may have been obtained.
  • kuntasenseikuntasensei Posts: 3,270
    edited April 2011
    Regardless of all the nonsense regarding paid or unpaid, a week to inform PSN users by e-mail is just ridiculous. That's an eternity as far as identity theft goes, and Sony better make things right for their customers.
    Equipment list:
    Onkyo TX-NR3010 9.2 AVR
    Emotiva XPA-3 amp
    Polk RTi70 mains, CSi40 center, RTi38 surrounds, RTi28 rears and heights
    SVS 20-39CS+ subwoofer powered by Crown XLS1500
    Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player
    DarbeeVision DVP5000 video processor
    Epson 8500UB 1080p projector
    Elite Screens Sable 120" CineWhite screen
  • fatchowmeinfatchowmein Posts: 2,642
    edited April 2011
    I'm sick of this. It seems every month either my wife or I are part of some data breach.
  • GoBigBlueGoBigBlue Posts: 213
    edited April 2011
    I lost valuable COD and NBA 2K11 playing time during the week before finals. Now I'm having withdrawals and I can't focus on studying. The information breach really concerns me since I've been a victim of identity theft a few times--I don't recommend it. Not a good time.
  • AnonymooseAnonymoose Posts: 6
    edited April 2011
    GoBigBlue wrote: »
    I lost valuable COD and NBA 2K11 playing time during the week before finals. Now I'm having withdrawals and I can't focus on studying. The information breach really concerns me since I've been a victim of identity theft a few times--I don't recommend it. Not a good time.
    If you're having withdrawals, that's a clear sign you have an addiction. I recommend counseling.
  • GoBigBlueGoBigBlue Posts: 213
    edited April 2011
    Anonymoose wrote: »
    If you're having withdrawals, that's a clear sign you have an addiction. I recommend counseling.

    There's not a word to summarize the bond I share with my PS3. I hold Sony accountable for this added stress on top of finals week. Can't start a party without a round of COD: Black Ops and Bacardi 151.
  • AnonymooseAnonymoose Posts: 6
    edited April 2011
    GoBigBlue wrote: »
    There's not a word to summarize the bond I share with my PS3. I hold Sony accountable for this added stress on top of finals week. Can't start a party without a round of COD: Black Ops and Bacardi 151.
    You sir have a problem.
  • cokewithvanillacokewithvanilla Posts: 1,774
    edited April 2011
    GoBigBlue wrote: »
    There's not a word to summarize the bond I share with my PS3. I hold Sony accountable for this added stress on top of finals week. Can't start a party without a round of COD: Black Ops and Bacardi 151.

    you sir, have a problem... that stuff is NASTY!
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