SVS PC12-NSD DSP or EPIK EMPIRE

VR3

For the money I gotta put a vote for Elemental Designs...

I tried Epik and Elemental and have owned SVS before... all in the 4-600 dollar price bracket.

The ED was by far the best bang for the buck.

Nacken23

Thanks for all your comments.

I think though I will go with the svs PC12-NSD DSP cylinder sub because I tried the manual EQ for the first time on the polk lsi15s and cant believe the difference it made there was so much more bass and the vocals were so much better.
I let a friend listen and he said that I didnt need a sub it sounded that good BUT Im getting one anyway:biggrin:

I wondering though will I damage the lsi15s if I use them at full range what should I set them at when I get the sub?

Nacken23

I still not 100% sure I think now I should get the Epik Empire do you guys think this sub would be too much for a room only 10 by 14.
Please more advice

ken brydson

Nacken23 wrote: »

I still not 100% sure I think now I should get the Epik Empire do you guys think this sub would be too much for a room only 10 by 14.
Please more advice

I'm partial to SVS but either would be a stellar choice and IMO there is no such thing as too much sub. That's what the volume knob is for...:biggrin:

Nacken23

ken brydson wrote: »

I'm partial to SVS but either would be a stellar choice and IMO there is no such thing as too much sub. That's what the volume knob is for...:biggrin:

Yes your right think I might get the Epik so at least when I put it in bigger room in the future it should still perform really good:biggrin:

kuntasensei

aboroth00 wrote: »

See the funny thing is that SVS couldn't improve too much upon the TC-Sounds drivers they had been using in the ISD and only formed the NSD driver line to indicate they're making their own drivers. Maybe I'm just behind but I honestly have not heard of new iteration since they switched from the ISD to the NSD or heard of someone emphasizing a dramatic improvement between those older models. I believe the older 12" ISD was inferior than the 12" NSD, but it certainly still wasn't up to par to the Plus. Any of the older drivers IMO were quality and fine drivers which are hard to beat even today.

Back on topic, if you want the best value, get the Epik. The NSD is a fine sub no doubt bout it, but it can be bested in the price range IMO.

The improvements in NSD drivers have been incremental, not a complete redesign to my knowledge. One of the guys who they worked with at TC-Sounds actually left and joined SVS, which is basically why they were able to go in-house, so they're constantly tweaking design and manufacture, even when there's not a completely new version.

I went from a TC-Sounds db12.1 driver in my 20-39CS+ to the SVS-made db12.3, and it was definitely a step up. 2dB increase in headroom right out of the gate and flatter in-room response (which let me take my EQ out of the chain). But I'm sure the person I sold my 12.1 driver to here on the forum got some good use out of it!

As for the decision being made here, I've heard nothing but good things about the Epik. If I wasn't still completely happy with my SVS rig, I'd be eyeballin' them too.

Nacken23

Before im 100% sure on getting the epik anyone got one of those SVS PC12-NSD DSP cylinder subs and if so whats it like for movies and how big is the room you use it in?

ken brydson

kuntasensei wrote: »

The improvements in NSD drivers have been incremental, not a complete redesign to my knowledge. One of the guys who they worked with at TC-Sounds actually left and joined SVS, which is basically why they were able to go in-house, so they're constantly tweaking design and manufacture, even when there's not a completely new version.

I went from a TC-Sounds db12.1 driver in my 20-39CS+ to the SVS-made db12.3, and it was definitely a step up. 2dB increase in headroom right out of the gate and flatter in-room response (which let me take my EQ out of the chain). But I'm sure the person I sold my 12.1 driver to here on the forum got some good use out of it!

As for the decision being made here, I've heard nothing but good things about the Epik. If I wasn't still completely happy with my SVS rig, I'd be eyeballin' them too.

I had the same experience going from the 12.2 to the 12.3 in my 25-31PC+. With the 12.2, it struggled with anything other than the stock tune (although stock is a not too shabby 25 anyway). If I tried running lower like 20, it didn't have the low end uumph. After the upgrade I could easily run in 20 htz tune and really feel the subsonics, sepecially at or near reference. Honestly haven't tried the 16htz mode. Might work but I wouldn't want to give up the output for slightly more extension.

In room, I'm probably in the mid to upper teens anyway...:biggrin:

kuntasensei

ken brydson wrote: »

I had the same experience going from the 12.2 to the 12.3 in my 25-31PC+. With the 12.2, it struggled with anything other than the stock tune (although stock is a not too shabby 25 anyway). If I tried running lower like 20, it didn't have the low end uumph. After the upgrade I could easily run in 20 htz tune and really feel the subsonics, sepecially at or near reference. Honestly haven't tried the 16htz mode. Might work but I wouldn't want to give up the output for slightly more extension.

In room, I'm probably in the mid to upper teens anyway...:biggrin:

I used to run my 20-39CS+ at 16Hz tune with the 12.1 driver with no problems... but after some careful measurement, I realized how much flatter the response was with the native 20Hz tune in my room once I installed the 12.3 driver and how much further I could push it. The 12.1 driver would bottom out on the Jurassic Lunch track of the DTS demo disc... whereas the 12.3 just kept going. Plus, I added a Buttkicker LFE under the couch and dialed it in so it blends nicely with the SVS. Still get the room-pressurizing subsonics, but I also get that couch-on-wood-flooring feel even though my couch is on carpeted concrete. :biggrin:

ken brydson

kuntasensei wrote: »

I used to run my 20-39CS+ at 16Hz tune with the 12.1 driver with no problems... but after some careful measurement, I realized how much flatter the response was with the native 20Hz tune in my room once I installed the 12.3 driver and how much further I could push it. The 12.1 driver would bottom out on the Jurassic Lunch track of the DTS demo disc... whereas the 12.3 just kept going. Plus, I added a Buttkicker LFE under the couch and dialed it in so it blends nicely with the SVS. Still get the room-pressurizing subsonics, but I also get that couch-on-wood-flooring feel even though my couch is on carpeted concrete. :biggrin:

The CS series is passive, right? What are you driving it with?

kuntasensei

ken brydson wrote: »

The CS series is passive, right? What are you driving it with?

Samson 1000 rackmount amp, 500w to the SVS and 500w to the Buttkicker LFE.

B Run

I've got the 16-46 cs plus with 12.3'' driver, running off a 500 watt bash amp and I love it. If it lacks anything it's not as loud in the 60-80hz range but it plays very loud and very low, filling a 22' by 25' room with wall shaking bass. I just want another one to run duals!

ken brydson

kuntasensei wrote: »

Samson 1000 rackmount amp, 500w to the SVS and 500w to the Buttkicker LFE.

Nice. Mine always brings a smile to my face and it's not going anywhere til I can swing an Ultra :biggrin:

aboroth00

kuntasensei wrote: »

The improvements in NSD drivers have been incremental, not a complete redesign to my knowledge. One of the guys who they worked with at TC-Sounds actually left and joined SVS, which is basically why they were able to go in-house, so they're constantly tweaking design and manufacture, even when there's not a completely new version.

I went from a TC-Sounds db12.1 driver in my 20-39CS+ to the SVS-made db12.3, and it was definitely a step up. 2dB increase in headroom right out of the gate and flatter in-room response (which let me take my EQ out of the chain). But I'm sure the person I sold my 12.1 driver to here on the forum got some good use out of it!

As for the decision being made here, I've heard nothing but good things about the Epik. If I wasn't still completely happy with my SVS rig, I'd be eyeballin' them too.

This reminds me of what Hsu does, they change their 12" driver over several iterations but make no mention of it over time. The dB12.1 driver from TC Sounds was vastly inferior to the 12.2 driver, however, I would hesitate to say that the 12.3 driver was a drastic improvement over the 12.2 driver. I recall several comparisons between the 12.3 and the 12.2 and the differences were hardly dramatic, with the 12.3 edging the 12.2 out slightly by 1-2db with a slightly flatter FR. To say the NSD is superior than an older Plus is still a stretch IMO. And the most fair comparison from SVS to the Epik is the Plus, so picking the NSD would be IMO a step down from the Epik.

Nacken23

Was just having a look at the Epik Legend Can get it for just 584euro anyone heard one of these?
See if the Legend is good enough I could get that and some SVS surround speakers all for nearly same price as the Epik Empire on its own.
I have pair of lsi15s and then my center and surrounds are just from a cheap home cinema all in one box I got years ago lol.
Will the SVS center and surround speakers make a big difference If I get them?
What do you guys think should I just upgrade the lot the surrounds center and the Epik Legend for 1100euro or just get the Epik Empire for 1000euro on its own for now.

EndersShadow

Nacken23 wrote: »

Was just having a look at the Epik Legend Can get it for just 584euro anyone heard one of these?
See if the Legend is good enough I could get that and some SVS surround speakers all for nearly same price as the Epik Empire on its own.
I have pair of lsi15s and then my center and surrounds are just from a cheap home cinema all in one box I got years ago lol.
Will the SVS center and surround speakers make a big difference If I get them?
What do you guys think should I just upgrade the lot the surrounds center and the Epik Legend for 1100euro or just get the Epik Empire for 1000euro on its own for now.

If you upgraded just your center and then got a good sub you should be fine. Surrounds dont matter as much for HT and even with music (unless you listen to lots of mutlichannel SACD's then it might).

Also I am switching the 8" subs in the LSi 15's for Polks db840 car sub. Bunch of folks on this thread have done this and seemed to like the overall results it gave them.

ken brydson

Nacken23 wrote: »

Was just having a look at the Epik Legend Can get it for just 584euro anyone heard one of these?
See if the Legend is good enough I could get that and some SVS surround speakers all for nearly same price as the Epik Empire on its own.
I have pair of lsi15s and then my center and surrounds are just from a cheap home cinema all in one box I got years ago lol.
Will the SVS center and surround speakers make a big difference If I get them?
What do you guys think should I just upgrade the lot the surrounds center and the Epik Legend for 1100euro or just get the Epik Empire for 1000euro on its own for now.

The SVS speakers get favorable reviews but they won't timbre match your LSI's. Very important, especially across the front stage.
LsiC Available here...http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118377&page=2

EndersShadow

ken brydson wrote: »

LsiC Available here...http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118377&page=2

And doubt you will find a better price for new in box lol...