Can the old vintage amps sound better than todays heavy hitters

polkfarmboy

I was checking out audiogon and in the MCIntosh amps section when you click to research the item I found that some amps are from the 70's

A seller said electricity does not go outa date and it got me thinking if you would get more for your money from a vintage classic

Can the oldies still give you the black backgrounds found today in our modern age amps if properly maintained or restored ?

I am always looking up a nice 2ch amp and pre for music on my limited funds

zarrdoss

I got an older Carver M1.5t and had it restored from Bob and Rita's shop and it powers my 2.3tl's no problem, it also powers my AL III very well too. I am just at over $500 for it and for the 350 watts RMS into 8 ohms is great. I also have a Rotel 990bx 200 RMS into 8 ohms for about the same price, it sounds good but the Carver sounds better. So for the money sometime the vintage stuff is tops, but if you have the money for a Krell well then what the hell are you doing on this forum? LOL

george daniel

vintage iron and tubes--yes,,they can and do sound as good,,and in many cases detter than some of the new production stuff I have a set of VTL monoblocks that are being revived with their iron. They sounded spooky good when they behaved,,we'll see what the re-worked ones sound like.

Face

Other than...

george daniel wrote: »

vintage iron and tubes--yes,

No.

While some prefer the sound of vintage gear to modern, most vintage gear is colored in comparison, lacks transparency, etc...

rromeo923

I have a feeling the answer is yes. I too would like some examples to look for.

george daniel

Face wrote: »

Other than...No.

While some prefer the sound of vintage gear to modern, most vintage gear is colored in comparison, lacks transparency, etc...

perhaps I misued the word--the gear that I'm speaking of was made in the early to mid ninities(at least the iron was.Did not intent to mislead anyone.

Tony M

I've never heard a McIntosh but one guy I know who has heard alot, LOVED the one he bought that was 35 years old. He really emphasized the POWER it put out. So I imagine his bass was tight and quick along with the warm sound most all older well made amps put out back then.

Marantz's and Luxman's sounded powerful and warm and the ones I owned were only 30 WPC each. They sure played as loud as I wanted to hear my Polk Monitor 10's though.

The older Pioneers I've owned were the same sound but with more midrange presence.



I think with bright speakers nowadays, these older amps match up with them very well indeed.

Face

tony millard wrote: »

So I imagine his bass was tight and quick

Vintage Mac, not at all. The newer stuff sounds much better IMO, but still isn't for me.

BlueFox

Do old cars from the 70s work better than new cars? Do old TVs from the 70s work better than new TVs? The 'good old days' line of thought is just a fantasy. Of course, an old top of the line reconditioned as new piece of gear probably is better than an entry level new piece of gear. But it probably will cost more to bring it up to its peak level than a new and better piece of gear.

Cayuga

Do cars from the 70's work better than todays cars? No but with cars or sound systems there's more to it than the ride. For me I'll listen to my vintage gear and go for a ride in my 58 MGA and live the fantasy.

PolkClyde

zarrdoss wrote: »

the vintage stuff is tops, but if you have the money for a Krell well then what the hell are you doing on this forum? LOL

One day, I will have a pair of Krell Mono Amps..got to get a new house,and new car first,though.

Libertyc

Look for an Adcom 555. It will give you great bang for you buck.

sucks2beme

Good gear is good gear. Every decade has it's cream and it's crap.
Remember, a lot of these guys are buying up this stuff for $5 or $10 bucks
and pushing it on line for big $$$. I filled up my office with a bunch of it,
and in the end, while some of sounded pretty good, it had to go.
There's a lot of hype out here. I've owned JBL l100's. You'd think from
hearing some of these guys there wasn't a better speaker made.
While I enjoyed their sound, for what they sell for right now, so can buy
some really nice used speakers that will sound much better. Same with
many of those receivers. My favorite, old Japanese speakers that were crap 35
years ago being tagged "vintage". Sorry, went from crap to old worthless crap.

F1nut

The only real answer is that it depends on the piece of gear.

PolkClyde

5 years,10 years,20 years? A lot of gear from the 80ties and 90ties sound just as good,or even better then the newer gear of today,right?

dkg999

PolkClyde wrote: »

5 years,10 years,20 years? A lot of gear from the 80ties and 90ties sound just as good,or even better then the newer gear of today,right?

There are exceptions, but for the most part the answer is no. High end gear from that period is a maybe and as noted previously, depends on the brand/manufacturer of the gear. Conrad Johnson, Audio Research, Threshold for example, if maintained well, will probably always sound good no matter the vintage.

tonyb

Good gear is good gear. Every decade has it's cream and it's crap


Pretty much sums it up right there.

quadzilla

BlueFox wrote: »

Do old cars from the 70s work better than new cars?

Be mighty hard to find a car that that lives up to an original Shelby Cobra. Well, unless you've got around a mil or so to go high-end exotic. Then sure, you can find a better car.

The 'good old days' line of thought is just a fantasy.

So is the "newer is better" line of thought.

thsmith

Too subjective of a question. I would love to get my hands on a vintage Royals Royce with a Merlin engine over anything available today, if I could afford it.

Pretty much anything made today is just a lower cost more efficient version of the original.

I will take my Mits CRTRP HDTV over anything made today.

polkatese

I know that Denon Integrated vintage of 1990+ is better than Denon 2000+ receiver.

Now if I can get a vintage Sansui AU-5900 in good cosmetics, I would have gutted it out and put a Marantz innards of 2000+ and be happy. It is really for sentimental reason (being that it was my first real Integrated purchase back then), don't care and don't think it can even compete with today's breed (no soundstage, thin sounding, and lack of bass and oomph). I put my current combo Marantz AV-8003 and Gemstone Blue Diamond as the best sounding gears that I owned in 30+ years. Of course, I could get to the next level of Pass Labs and be even more satisfied (a maybe), but gotta draw the line.

inspiredsports

BlueFox wrote: »

Do old cars from the 70s work better than new cars? Do old TVs from the 70s work better than new TVs? The 'good old days' line of thought is just a fantasy. Of course, an old top of the line reconditioned as new piece of gear probably is better than an entry level new piece of gear. But it probably will cost more to bring it up to its peak level than a new and better piece of gear.

That's a broad-strokes statement and maybe a bit misleading when you consider the whole reason we are here.

Yes, it might take some new drivers (like RDO's), and yes it takes some new caps and resistors, but the vast majority here feel restored vintage Polks yield perhaps even up to a tenfold price advantage versus what you have to purchase today for similar performance.

I've dropped the same type of new components into my vintage electronics gear (caps, power supplies, connections, etc.) and have to strongly disagree with the theory that upgraded vintage is in any way inferior to new gear.

Also, and with very few exceptions, NOS 50's vacuum tubes destroy newly produced tubes.

mossbacked

inspiredsports wrote: »

That's a broad-strokes statement and maybe a bit misleading when you consider the whole reason we are here.

Yes, it might take some new drivers (like RDO's), and yes it takes some new caps and resistors, but the vast majority here feel restored vintage Polks yield perhaps even up to a tenfold price advantage versus what you have to purchase today for similar performance.

I've dropped the same type of new components into my vintage electronics gear (caps, power supplies, connections, etc.) and have to strongly disagree with the theory that upgraded vintage is in any way inferior to new gear.

Also, and with very few exceptions, NOS 50's vacuum tubes destroy newly produced tubes.

But then do't you just end up with todays money in yesterdays old fashions?

BlueFox

Let's not lose track of the original question regarding 1970s gear, "Can the old vintage amps sound better than todays heavy hitters".

Like it or not, technology marches on, and engineers discover and design new circuits made of better components than available in the past. Can an old piece of refurbished gear sound good? Of course. Does it sound better than today's "heavy hitters"? I seriously doubt it, unless you assume today's audio technology has not advanced since the 1970s.

The real question is at what price point does today's gear equal, or better, the top of the line gear from 30 years ago.

lanchile

polkfarmboy wrote: »

I was checking out audiogon and in the MCIntosh amps section when you click to research the item I found that some amps are from the 70's

A seller said electricity does not go outa date and it got me thinking if you would get more for your money from a vintage classic

Can the oldies still give you the black backgrounds found today in our modern age amps if properly maintained or restored ?

I am always looking up a nice 2ch amp and pre for music on my limited funds

Electricity does not go out of date for sure, but parts inside amp sure do!!!! The first parts to go usually are the caps, they dry out with time. and the rest can burn,shift,weaken etc. and some really old parts are very difficult to find. But if you know a little about electronics, go ahead and get those vintage amps.They are very well made and sound good too!

Remenber today most of the new staff are operated with IC's chips like LM or STK. the best is all discrete circuit!

Hawkeye

I think the old vintage gear sounds OK. I think the appeal of it, especially to the older folk's here (myself included) is that it was gear we couldn't afford when we were 17 or 18 and now it is affordable. The big dollars spent today on this gear feeds the demand despite some of it sounding just average.

There are some certainly fine vintage pieces out there, one just has to find what appeals to them. I also believe you have to listen to McIntosh piece and see if it appeals to you. While they have a reputation, if you don't like the sound, they are worthless!!

Gordon

[Deleted User]

I believe the Mac audio clinics did a great deal to establish the reputation they have. I can remember helping older customers unload their amps/preamps and get them in line for the Mac tech. Some guys had trunks filled with stacks of gear. They'd test every piece and do some repairs right on the spot. Some people would trade-in their old Mac gear for new right in line. Their wives would think they were bringing home the same stuff, just cleaned up. Faceplates stayed the same....who could tell old from new?

Hawkeye

That type of customer service is a long lost benefit. I used to drool seeing the gear being carted in and wished I could own some of it. Goes back to what I said earlier. It may not be everyones cup of tea, but it is what I want/wanted.

The 275 sold for $450-500 new in 1972. In todays money that is a pittance for this level of gear. Back then, more than I made a month so McIntosh has at least maintained an above the norm price:redface:

Gordon

inspiredsports

BlueFox wrote: »

Let's not lose track of the original question regarding 1970s gear, "Can the old vintage amps sound better than todays heavy hitters".

Like it or not, technology marches on, and engineers discover and design new circuits made of better components than available in the past. Can an old piece of refurbished gear sound good? Of course. Does it sound better than today's "heavy hitters"? I seriously doubt it, unless you assume today's audio technology has not advanced since the 1970s.

The real question is at what price point does today's gear equal, or better, the top of the line gear from 30 years ago.

The architecture of the circuitry hasn't really changed that much and it's a simple matter to emulate new circuits, replace capacitors, resistors, diodes, etc. It seem you spend as much to upgrade a vintage amp as you spend to buy it, but then it compares favorably to brand new gear costing 2 to 5 times as much.

PolkClyde

Hawkeye wrote: »

if it appeals to you. While they have a reputation, if you don't like the sound, they are worthless!!

Gordon

I think the above statement says it all.

nooshinjohn

quadzilla wrote: »

Be mighty hard to find a car that that lives up to an original Shelby Cobra. Well, unless you've got around a mil or so to go high-end exotic. Then sure, you can find a better car.

It is worth noting that an original Shelby Cobra today costs as much, if not more, than a "high end" exotic...:rolleyes:


Vintage gear has always served me well, but I have begun using the term "classic" instead of vintage. Any old POS can become vintage, but only the cream of the crop rise to the level of being a classic. Among the classics, there is another tier of gear all together, and no matter how good newer gear is, these elite classics will always stand proud. I don't have time to mention any tonight, but I will add a few to the list in the morning, but the Conrad Johnson Premier 5's come to mind...

PolkClyde

Can we turn it around,if you guys haven't already.Whata you say?