To the CHEFs in the house

doggie750

Ok CHEFS,
Looking into 6burner gas range and wondering you polks got some advice for me and my wifey. Got a kitchen project on hand and may spend a few $$$ to burn.

The Project:
Cabinets: IKEA, got any coupons to share
Countertop: Granite
Gas Range: 36" ??? with oven , budget <$1499
Rang hood: 36" Ken pro,1200cfm. wifey cooks a lot of gourmet food
Dishwasher: double stack, not sure of the brand to get? F&P
Sink: 36 apron sink Kraus
Ref: 3 door w/ ice
Microwave: no IDEA


Stainless steel finish....

drselect

I would look into castle stoves. I have the 60" model and a friend installed 1 36" with 4 burners and grill. We have both been very pleased with them and I would hate to ever go back to a regular stove. It is an industrial stove so you will have to check with building codes and insurance before you install. It has standing pilot lights and doesn't have many of the features found on regular stove. I choose it because it had better insulation than many others and required less clearance.
http://www.castlestove.com/product.asp_Q_catID_E_88_A_subCatID_E_82

amulford

I wouldn't go to Ikea for cabinetry. They look nice but the life expectancy will leave you very pissed off...

Erik Tracy

doggie750 wrote: »

Ok CHEFS,
Looking into 6burner gas range and wondering you polks got some advice for me and my wifey. Got a kitchen project on hand and may spend a few $$$ to burn.

...

Stainless steel finish....

I've got a stainless steel finish bbq - its a pain to keep that clean unstreaked look to it....and for a kitchen range with bacon grease splattering, sloshed spaghetti sauce, baked bean drippings, etc....could be a full time job!

mark090852

Here's what we have after a recent remodel. Very happy with them. These are stock photos, not our kitchen.

Willow

mark090852 wrote: »

Here's what we have after a recent remodel. Very happy with them. These are stock photos, not our kitchen.

Does she come with it? for cooking purposes only!!

On3s&amp;Z3r0s

I don't have any positive recommendations unfortunately (wish I did), but when we remodeled our kitchen we installed a Thermador cooktop/downdraft and a Dacor oven. We've had problems with both. The Dacor was fairly minor but irritating... the oven light circuit malfunctioned causing the relay to snap on and off at random (loudly). The snorkel for the Thermador downdraft seized, and the heat of the cooktop burners deformed one of the knobs that are mounted on top of the cooktop in the middle of all the burners. I think these brands are designed to look pretty, not to be used by people who actually cook.

On3s&amp;Z3r0s

Willow wrote: »

Does she come with it? for cooking purposes only!!

[Redacted] I almost got a little too Beavis and Butthead there.

DanAckerman

Over your budget, but we installed an Electrolux during our recent kitchen update and we love it. Check the return sections of the major appliance box stores.

doggie750

On3s&Z3r0s: Thnx for the heads up on the Thermador

DanAckerman: Yeah, electrolux would be sweet

mark090852: unfortunately, rangetop is not an option. Also WOLF will bite my arm & leg.:frown:

drselect: tnx man, but same as the wolf....too frkn expensive.

EYEING on this, got good reviews.
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=Premier+ProSeries+36&cid=1860014809943849642&os=reviews

drselect

We actually went to a local dealer and worked a deal with them. He had some good used ones (which could be another option) but we came to a price on a new one not even close to the retail price. I also worked with a place called servu http://www.servu-online.com/. Asked them if they could do any better than the listed price. They could but decided to go with the local place. Have had real good luck with castles service department also for the few times I have needed them.
Didn't know if you googled but found this http://www.akitchen.com/store/castle-range.html?gdftrk=gdfV2202_a_7c243_a_7c585_a_7cCAS_d_F330
Sorry I am not familiar with the Premier line so can't add anything.

doggie750

drselect wrote: »

We actually went to a local dealer and worked a deal with them. He had some good used ones (which could be another option) but we came to a price on a new one not even close to the retail price. I also worked with a place called servu http://www.servu-online.com/. Asked them if they could do any better than the listed price. They could but decided to go with the local place. Have had real good luck with castles service department also for the few times I have needed them.
Didn't know if you googled but found this http://www.akitchen.com/store/castle-range.html?gdftrk=gdfV2202_a_7c243_a_7c585_a_7cCAS_d_F330
Sorry I am not familiar with the Premier line so can't add anything.

Drselect,
Thanks for the info! Seemed like you know about restaurant grade kitchnen appliances so may I ask you what are the guidelines when purchasing gas range, higher BTUs is better right?
Also, any 2cents on Southbend brand and Comstock Castle (your link above)

drselect

First off I need to say I am not a Chef, I just do a real bad impersonation of one every once and a while. But 7 years ago or so when we remodeled our kitchen I really wanted a restaurant grade range (by the way they used to be called "commercial ranges" but now the word "commercial" has been over hyped.) so I did a little research on them which included the net and also going to different stores including restaurant supplies stores. The most useful/helpful was an individual that not only sold them but also repaired them.

As far as guidelines if you are wanting to go down the path of having a restaurant grade range in your kitchen the first thing I would do is something I already mentioned check your building codes for your area and with your insurance company. Some areas will not allow these types of ranges to be put into homes and some insurance companies will not cover them or require added riders ($$$) if they are installed.
Second you will need to determine your gas pressure and the size of your service.:biggrin: Many of these ranges have minimal gas pressure requirements and need at least a ?" inlet line. This of course will impact the BTU.
May want to keep in mind that BTU's are only a portion of the performance of the range. In my limited experience and reading it is also the distribution of the BTU's that matters especially at low temps to avoid hot spots. So consider the type of burner a range has. Some do a great job a boiling a 5 gallon bucket of water for pasta but will burn your sugar every time you try to make a syrup.
Another consideration in our case was clearance. Many of the ranges will have minimum clearance requirements which can be from 2" to 12". This means instead of needing 36" of space you need 40" to 60". I always took this as to how well the range was insulated and how efficient it was going to be. Less clearance more insulation more efficient less gas.

Keep in mind also that these ranges don't have all the features on them as a regular stove has. They are NOT child friendly for many people (We do have children and have manged fine thus far - some have learned the hard way that the stove can be hot- so far no scars.) Many ranges have standing pilots (pilot light is on all the time.) Some have safety knobs. Safety Knobs are the ones you push in first before turning. All of the stoves are required to have the feature where the pilot light goes out the gas shots off to the pilot light and the stove. Some ranges warn NOT for home use.

Oops almost forgot. Vent hood function of form. Its mostly about the SCFMs the more the better. I have a 13" vent line going through my attic. You won't need one that large for a 36" range. Also consider easy of cleaning grease traps on the hoods.

I do not remember looking much at the Southbend brand but I did a quick check of there instillation and saw they required at least 10". They do appear to have a unique burner but didn't read much about it.

The Castle stoves have 2" clearance, they come with safety knobs, and there "star" burners are pretty good.

Hope that helps.

doggie750

Thanks Drselect,
Been leaning between Castle and Vulcan (makes WOLF) but concern about the standing pilot lights, is that safe with kids around? is it visible? As far as HOT cautious, my kids (ranges from 6,4,2.5) are pretty trained on that subject.

Clearance/ insulation: Castle is + on this but may reinforce my side cabinets with hardbacker (cementboard for tiles) act as non combustible material. Vulcan has 10" clearance so with cementboard on my cabinets it can go closer to 1" but heat will still be a factor due to insulation issue.

Appearance: Vulcan is + on this, the blue handle is an issue to my wifey. Guess I have to call the Castle for optional handles/ knobs.

Price: Vulcan is cost effective so + again

Review: Vulcan is +, asked a few chefs locally & maker. Vulcan is the big dog in the industry along with the Garlands.

Safety: unsure, haven't cross reference the Castle's safety knobs with the Vulcan..

Building Code & Insurance: Haven't checked. Was gonna dodge the bullet on this issue. Kinda rebel when it comes to this but may consider checking on them. Please advice.

ME: I vote for Castle

Wife: Liking the VULCAN

Local Dealer: Gave us a good deal on BLUEstar non convection for $2990. Should we grab this one?

VULCAN: $1440 shipped online
Castle: $1730 shipped online.

Status: CONFUSED.

gdb

Granite,Corian etc. installers are VERY picky about the cabinetry that will be supporting their counters AND how well they've been installed. I've seen a whole wall of base units uninstalled and then reinstalled to their liking. I doubt seriously that any reputable installer will consider IKEA products as being suitable. Just something to check out if you want to.

drselect

doggie750 wrote: »

Thanks Drselect,
Been leaning between Castle and Vulcan (makes WOLF) but concern about the standing pilot lights, is that safe with kids around? is it visible? As far as HOT cautious, my kids (ranges from 6,4,2.5) are pretty trained on that subject.

Yes the standing pilots lights are visible. In the winter my wife leaves a SS teapot on the range top positioned over the two pilot lights and keeps the water fairly hot. As far as safety goes- We have three children the youngest is 4 never have had any issues with them and pilot lights or turning the burners on. One thing that helped me as far as the standing pilots go is the fact that is how it used to be. Unfortunatly I am old enough to remember there use to be standing pilots on water heaters and furnaces. Also most all restaurants still use these types of ranges with standing pilots.

doggie750 wrote: »

Clearance/ insulation: Castle is + on this but may reinforce my side cabinets with hardbacker (cementboard for tiles) act as non combustible material. Vulcan has 10" clearance so with cementboard on my cabinets it can go closer to 1" but heat will still be a factor due to insulation issue.

I don't know if you can see in the picture but I had some SS panels made at a local metal shop I placed 5/8 inch sheet rock in/behind them for extra heat protection. This included on for the side next to the cabinet. This was probably overkill. This clearance issue was probably the main reason I got the Castle.

doggie750 wrote: »

Appearance: Vulcan is + on this, the blue handle is an issue to my wifey. Guess I have to call the Castle for optional handles/ knobs.

ME: I vote for Castle

Wife: Liking the VULCAN

Status: CONFUSED.

Don't think I can help here my wife liked the blue handles. Notice the tile in the floor matches.:cool: And if she is the one who will use it the most this should help your confusion (WAF). IIRC they use to have black knob options

Don't know anything about the BLUEstar. VULCAN was number two on my list but the clearance and the deal $$ tipped the balance to the Castle.

Other things to consider $$$: Casters- these are heavy and the ability to roll them out to clean behind has been great-well worth the extra money. Water faucet to fill 5 gallon pots on the stove top. I don't have one. Wife wishes we did. 120v outlet near stove top. Don't have one but would come in handy. It could also be used if you decided to get the convection oven which I now wish I would have had on one of my two ovens.

doggie750

ROGER THAT DrSelect, the balance just tipped towards more to the CASTLE however would like to double check that their ovens, do they have broil feature? Been getting diff inputs so just wanna double check. Please advice. We need the feature in our oven.

brettw22

I have a GE Profile Dual fuel range and i love it. Gas up top and electric oven........touch controls and looks great............

drselect

doggie750 wrote: »

ROGER THAT DrSelect, the balance just tipped towards more to the CASTLE however would like to double check that their ovens, do they have broil feature? Been getting diff inputs so just wanna double check. Please advice. We need the feature in our oven.

I just checked there web site and didn't see that they offered a broil feature on the ovens nor did I see they offer a convection feature which I really think they use to (convention don't remember they ever offered broilers and I don't know if they could the way the oven is designed). If you haven't called them I would to confirm. If they don't then go for the 60" with the cheese melter (F3226-24B) :biggrin:http://www.castlestove.com/pdfs/uploads/Page9_10_60WideRanges4_4_30_2008_1_49_28_PM.pdf

doggie750

Thanks much, can u confirm that the burner aren't removable for cleaning? See attached links

http://www.therma-tek.com/large_images/blg_urner_cover.jpg
http://www.southbendnc.com/

http://www.bluestarcooking.com/about-bluestar-why-bluestar.html
Cleanability ? removable oven bottom for simple cleaning; top grates and ring grates are dishwasher safe.

Burners on all 3brands can be removed for easy cleaning. Per Castle, the burners are fixed so kindly advice on how you simulate the cleaning process with ease. Thank you.

drselect

doggie750 wrote: »

Thanks much, can u confirm that the burner aren't removable for cleaning?
Burners on all 3brands can be removed for easy cleaning. Per Castle, the burners are fixed so kindly advice on how you simulate the cleaning process with ease. Thank you.

Pay the busboy/dishwasher $4.50/hr to clean it.:eek::biggrin::biggrin:

Sorry flash back to one of my first jobs.

The following is castle description:
COOK TOPS: .... Full width crumb trays catch all spillage. Top grates are
12" x 12" cast iron with spillover bowl .......

I will say there is nothing real easy about cleaning this range. So far the easiest way to keep it clean is not making a mess on it in the first place. But we fail miserably at doing this so for cleaning we remove the 12x12 grates they are heavy and we clean them in the sink. The spillover bowls does catch stuff but I don't know if it helps much because there is steall the crumb tray. Don't think dishwasher will get the stuff off of the grates, need a "little":rolleyes: elbow grease and scrub brush. for the burners we scrub them in place and the "washings" fall down into the crumb tray which we then remove and clean. The crumb tray is a very nice feature. It is one feature that does make the cleaning a little easier. I couldn't tell if the other ranges had the crumb tray. Also use a small pipe cleaner to clean out any nozzles on the burners that may have gotten plugged.

The oven bottom is removable porcelain tray that you can remove and clean. We found it easiest to take those outside and clean with the hose and scrub brush.

Hope that helps. Are you able to get somewhere to see any of these ranges? It really helped us in our decision when we could get our "hands" on one.

drselect

Did a quick check and saw all three of the ranges u listed have drip/crumb pans which should help in the cleaning of all of them.

doggie750

HOW much me and the wifey appreciated your inputs & advice, heck we can name our KITCHEN under your name

Unfortunately, the wifey will pull the trigger on the BLUEStar range due to cleaning/ portability. We could have been brother in ComstockCastle forum (if there's any :biggrin:)......Much love to you SIR!!!

I'll keep you posted with pictures......

drselect

doggie750 wrote: »

....... the wifey will pull the trigger on the BLUEStar range due to cleaning/ portability. ......

Glad I could help. Sounds like YOU made the right choice.
Looks like a good range hope you and your wife enjoy it.
Yes I would like to see some pictures after it is installed and also will look forward to hearing how easy it is for YOU to clean.:biggrin:

Didn't see it in your original post but don't forget to put back some money for some Polk speakers in that new kitchen. :eek:

eeagle

I find it interesting no one has mentioned Induction ranges/cooktops. Most swear by them over on the GardenWeb Kitchen forum. Even the hard core gas fans love them. Totally controllable and fast. Fry a perfect egg or melt chocolate without burning.

Our daughter got a GE range model because they only have electricity available, and I am absolutely amazed at it capabilities (we have always sworn by gas). Obviously you must have ferrous cookware, but then I know of few who use aluminum these days. Oh and a totally flat easy to clean surface too.

drselect

eeagle, never looked into Induction mainly because I got gas..:eek::biggrin:

However, what little I know about it if I only had electricity it would be something to seriously consider.
Seeing your location and handle it made me wonder do you happen to know if induction heating/stoves was something that came out of the space program?

eeagle

drselect wrote: »

eeagle, never looked into Induction mainly because I got gas..:eek::biggrin:

However, what little I know about it if I only had electricity it would be something to seriously consider.
Seeing your location and handle it made me wonder do you happen to know if induction heating/stoves was something that came out of the space program?

My understanding is induction cooking was known and demonstrated in the early 1900's.

NASA did use it in some applications for the space program, but it was not one of their Spin Off's.

Europe has adopted the technology much faster than the US, but the US is fast catching up. Costs have come down and many who have experienced the advantages are quite vocal in the cooking forums.

We recently remodeled our Kitchen and did not consider anything but gas. We put in a Miele KM3474G gas cooktop, that performs quite well. I did pick up a countertop 110VAC 15A induction unit from newegg recently for only about $60. Even just using 110VAC my first test was to heat a cup of water on it, which took about 1 min to boil. Then on the big gas burner (15000 BTU) using same temp water and ferrous pan it took 2 min.....Quite eye opening.

I share your caution about evaluating specifications. Some of the multi burner Wolf and Viking products require more hefty inputs and ventilation then existing kitchen installation may have, but like my quick experiment above the heft may look good but it may not be efficient. The cooking grates alone on a gas cooktop must be brought up to temp before the heat gets applied to the pan and that is where induction speeds the process; the pan becomes the heating element with no middleman transition or hot spots.

drselect

eeagle wrote: »

Even just using 110VAC my first test was to heat a cup of water on it, which took about 1 min to boil. Then on the big gas burner (15000 BTU) using same temp water and ferrous pan it took 2 min.....Quite eye opening.
/QUOTE]

Seeking knowledge not argument did you think about trying 2 gallons of water? This is were I have a preconceived notion about convection and I as I admit before I have done very little actual research on it.

eeagle

drselect wrote: »

Seeking knowledge not argument did you think about trying 2 gallons of water? This is were I have a preconceived notion about convection and I as I admit before I have done very little actual research on it.

Well I had a bit of time today to experiment. The biggest ferrous Le Creuset pot we have is a 4 qt, so filled it with 3 qts of 75 degree tap water and set it to boil on the Meile (15,000 BTU) burner; achieved rolling boil (211+ degrees on Thermapen) in 11 min.

The small 115VAC Tatung (1500 watt) induction unit took 23 minutes 25 seconds to do the same, over twice as long.

So as expected once that initial time constant of grate heating is overcome the big high output gas burner wins hands down.

But, if one now compares it to a comparable retail 220VAC induction appliance like the GE Induction Range Model: PHB925SPSS with a 3700 watt max power induction burner (which is specified to boil 1 qt of water in 101 seconds) one could extrapolate it to take 303 seconds or a tad over 5 min to heat that same 3 qt or less than half the time of the big gas burner. LINK

This of course begs the question of how long it takes a big Commercial unit like the Castle Stove to boil 3 qts of water from a cold start in a cast iron pot? If you have a chance let this inquiring mind know.

At any rate induction is not for everyone, especially those that have natural gas available, but it is definitely a choice I would make for an electric installation....and IMHO a good choice for a gas installation as well....you really can't beat a smooth surface to clean, and from what I've seen a big speed, control and efficiency advantage too.

drselect

eeagle wrote: »

This of course begs the question of how long it takes a big Commercial unit like the Castle Stove to boil 3 qts of water from a cold start in a cast iron pot? If you have a chance let this inquiring mind know.

Ok had a chance to do this. My Castle range has burners rated for 24,000 btu. I do not have a 4qrt pot so I used a 8 qrt stainless steal pot. Sorry no cast iron pots just a cast iron skillet but it wont hold 3 qrts. It took 10 min 15 secs for the 3qrts of water to come to a full boil. The initial temp was 75 and the temp at full boil was 208. Water temp never reached 211. I think we have a high pressure system moving through or my electronic thermometer needs to be calibrated.
I will have to say I was a little disappointed in the results based on your results with a 15,000 btu range.
Also my wife is a little confused by the fact I am boiling water to answer a question on an audio forum.
Thanks for the link it had a good video on explaining how induction cooking works and I would now definitely look into it if I didn't have gas.

eeagle

drselect wrote: »

It took 10 min 15 secs for the 3qrts of water to come to a full boil. The initial temp was 75 and the temp at full boil was 208. Water temp never reached 211. I think we have a high pressure system moving through or my electronic thermometer needs to be calibrated.
I will have to say I was a little disappointed in the results based on your results with a 15,000 btu range.

Well certainly an interesting experiment...its been fun .

Thanks for taking the time to boil some water, and follow up. Had we done a full 2 gallons I suspect the Castle would be the clear winner for large heat requirements. I expect it has some large cast burners as well as heavy grates to heat before it can show its true colors and apply that 24,000 BTU output to the task at hand.

I think we have shown that heat output, like audio output, is not always as linear as we would like it to be, but we can always strive to make it better.

I hope doggie750 who started this thread enjoys the new kitchen and selection of appliances.

The induction videos are amazing, and I can verify they are accurate in real life. Most amazing is the control, turn it down and boiling instantly stops, no hot spots or scorched areas in your pans, and most important fast and efficient, great for getting just the right simmer to reduce that sauce to just the right consistency.