Anyone try the "Polk Audio Monitor 10, RTA 11T Upgrade Kit" listed on eBay?

seventy1

I'm sure this must have been talked about before, but I can't seem to find a thread about the "upgrade kit" listed on eBay (item 260753425018). It appears to be more than just updated to polypro caps, claims to correct problems in the mid and upper frequencies that make the speakers "irritating". Just wondering if anyone hass tried the kit and what you think. Thanks!

F1nut

Garbage.

Vette C6.r

Stick with quailty caps and resistors. You'll be much happier with the results.

seventy1

Thanks, makes sense that the original designer of a well regarded speaker would know more about its crossover design than some dude on the Bay.

Jack A

Call Sonic Craft Elliot or Jeff 501 620-4444

soundfreak1

If your speakers irratate you-- play some barry manilow, that will fix em LOL

jcandy

F1nut wrote: »

Garbage.

Did you try it?

jcandy

seventy1 wrote: »

Thanks, makes sense that the original designer of a well regarded speaker would know more about its crossover design than some dude on the Bay.

But lots of people here do crossover upgrades; changing the inductors to reduce the DCR, etc. Do they know better than the original designers? You should also consider that people have access to crossover simulation software now that is far more powerful than what Polk had in the 80s.

halo71

hummm...I have never found my stock 10's to be irritating. Although I plan, at some point, to do the XO upgrades.

Outfitter03

jcandy wrote: »

But lots of people here do crossover upgrades; changing the inductors to reduce the DCR, etc. Do they know better than the original designers? You should also consider that people have access to crossover simulation software now that is far more powerful than what Polk had in the 80s.

This sounds a lot like trolling, but I am going to bite anyway. Reasons to redo crossovers:

The crossovers are now 15-30 years old and some of the components are worn out such as electrolytic caps.

The components are not as high quality as what is on the market now such as non-inductive resistors or very nice poly film caps.

The marketing and financial folks have a price point for a certain speaker and as the new owner you are willing to do some upgrades and replace select components with higher grade ones.

All of these changes can be without modifying the original design specifications for capacitance, resistance, inductance. These are the most commonly found speaker mods on this forum.

As you point out Jcandy some people, actually a very small group, have changed inductors and inductor values of DCR. Usually in the lowest part of the frequency spectrum for bass response.

As far as the kit, one does not have to spend money on a kit to see the quality of the kit components. Are they arguably better than say a 30 year dried up electrolytic capacitor? Yes! But one would be better spending their money on tried and true upgrade components found in the DIY forum and following some of the completely illustrated with photo threads on how to perform these upgrades IMHO.:biggrin:

seventy1

Good points, guys. I did find one favorable review on this kit on AK by rushfan:

"the seller had excellent ratings and a number of interesting upgrade kits. I found out about him from a satisfied customer in another forum. I guess that he must be onto something with the electrolytic capacitor. The bass has tightened up noticeably and remains satisfyingly deep. I was listening to some electronic music today (Phutureprimitive) and the bass was positively cavernous. You'd think that I'd be used to this by now (my best speakers feature dual 6.5" woofers too) but I cannot get over how low those small drivers go."

But there are many more favorable comments about just updating the caps, hmm :rolleyes:.

charley95

I have RTA15TL's that I would like to upgrade the XO's on. I replaced the 3000's with 198's this weekend. Does anyone out there sell completed XO boards assembled? I'm not real handy with soldering.

Joe08867

jcandy wrote: »

But lots of people here do crossover upgrades; changing the inductors to reduce the DCR, etc. Do they know better than the original designers? You should also consider that people have access to crossover simulation software now that is far more powerful than what Polk had in the 80s.

OK so you are a troll.. Oh well, now to answer why they are garbage.

1. They aren't changing values from what I read but who knows.

2. They aren't changing inductors or DCR or values just the caps

3. They are using is and inferior product to what is available from Solen, Sonicraft and many others. If I am not mistaken those are Dayton caps they are pushing and honestly I would not use Dayton in any tweeter circuit again.

4.They are overcharging people for it.

Is that enough or do you need more answers.

charley95

charley95 wrote: »

I have RTA15TL's that I would like to upgrade the XO's on. I replaced the 3000's with 198's this weekend. Does anyone out there sell completed XO boards assembled? I'm not real handy with soldering.

I meant to say quality boards not the "Bay" type.

Joe08867

charley95, You might find a couple guys on here that can help you out.

Start your own thread to get replies. This way the original poster will not be derailed.

jcandy

Outfitter03 wrote: »

This sounds a lot like trolling, but I am going to bite anyway. Reasons to redo crossovers:

The crossovers are now 15-30 years old and some of the components are worn out such as electrolytic caps.

Absolutely. So, isn't that an argument that strongly favours the eBay upgrade kit that was denigrated here?

Outfitter03 wrote: »

The components are not as high quality as what is on the market now such as non-inductive resistors or very nice poly film caps.

I agree. Note that the eBay upgrade consists of good quality polypropylene caps.

Outfitter03 wrote: »

All of these changes can be without modifying the original design specifications for capacitance, resistance, inductance. These are the most commonly found speaker mods on this forum.

That's right. So why is the $21.75 eBay upgrade not a good idea? Is it only a good idea if the capacitors cost 10x more than Dayton/Bennic?

Outfitter03 wrote: »

As you point out Jcandy some people, actually a very small group, have changed inductors and inductor values of DCR. Usually in the lowest part of the frequency spectrum for bass response.

There are numerous modifications that are popular: addition of damping material, rope caulk, removal of polyswitch, tweeter upgrade, and the killer DCR reduction on SDA crossovers. All of these fit into the category of changing your speaker from its original spec. To be clear, I don't think I see a valid criticism yet of the eBay upgrade. Of course, if I did the upgrade, I'd buy my own parts and take extensive measurements, but that sort of goes against the preference for subjective methods that are popular here.

Outfitter03 wrote: »

As far as the kit, one does not have to spend money on a kit to see the quality of the kit components. Are they arguably better than say a 30 year dried up electrolytic capacitor? Yes! But one would be better spending their money on tried and true upgrade components found in the DIY forum and following some of the completely illustrated with photo threads on how to perform these upgrades IMHO.:biggrin:

How much better off?

jcandy

Joe08867 wrote: »

OK so you are a troll.. Oh well, now to answer why they are garbage.

1. They aren't changing values from what I read but who knows.

2. They aren't changing inductors or DCR or values just the caps

3. They are using is and inferior product to what is available from Solen, Sonicraft and many others. If I am not mistaken those are Dayton caps they are pushing and honestly I would not use Dayton in any tweeter circuit again.

4.They are overcharging people for it.

Is that enough or do you need more answers.

You think a new Dayton (Bennic) cap will be the weak link in a 30-year-old monitor 10

Here are the crossover component recommendations for the Zaph ZD5 loudspeaker (http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZD5.html), something that will blow the monitor 10, for example, out of the water in terms of midrange and high-frequency performance:

Eagle Metal Oxide Film for all resistors. Madisound medium bobbin standard air cores for all inductors except L14, which can be anything you want as long as it's DCR is .3 ohms or less. A Solen Perfect Lay 14 awg will do for L14, but a Sledgehammer Steel Laminate 15AWG will do even better for less money if you can unwind a 2.0mH to 1.8mH and have an LCR meter to confirm the value. Madisound can also unwind it for you for a small fee. Bennic Poly capacitors for all caps except for C10 and C20, which can be electrolytic. If you're afraid of using electrolytics, I recommend Solen Chateauroux Poly Fast Caps for C10 and C10. For C1, you will have to parallel a 1.0 and 3.3uF.

Note that compared to the ZD5 crossover, the monitor 10 crossover looks like a 72 VW Beetle compared to a 2011 Porsche. Better crossovers are very audible, boutique caps are probably at the limit of audibility, so it doesn't make much sense to throw away too much money on them. You're trying to make a VW into a Porsche by upgrading the spark plugs.

For this reason, I would think Bennic/Dayton is entirely appropriate.

pitdogg2

I tried the stuff on ebay on some moniter 5's the caps are very generic. I would just go so far as say if you want to use them do yourself a favor and just keep the old caps in there cause the new will be NO BETTER. not to mention you'd save 25.00

"Note that the eBay upgrade consists of good quality polypropylene caps."
The sellers of **** enhancement pills also say top quality, But we all know that nobody is growing horse members.

heiney9

Here we go again. JCandy knows all!

To the OP, You can buy better parts than the Ebay kit. If you don't want too, then buy the Ebay kit. But the tried and true methods outlined here in CP over the past 5-6 years yield excellent results time after time vs. buying something from someone you don't have a clue about and is in it to make a profit.

Your choice

H9

Toolfan66

heiney9 wrote: »

Here we go again. JCandy knows all!

To the OP, You can buy better parts than the Ebay kit. If you don't want too, then buy the Ebay kit. But the tried and true methods outlined here in CP over the past 5-6 years yield excellent results time after time vs. buying something from someone you don't have a clue about and is in it to make a profit.

Your choice

H9

Agreed!!! But it might be just a fluke but JCandy always post's around some of the new members posts.Team work maybe????

heiney9

If you do buy the Ebay kit see if the seller will throw in a full can of pop for free.

H9

jcandy

pitdogg2 wrote: »

I tried the stuff on ebay on some moniter 5's the caps are very generic. I would just go so far as say if you want to use them do yourself a favor and just keep the old caps in there cause the new will be NO BETTER. not to mention you'd save 25.00

"Note that the eBay upgrade consists of good quality polypropylene caps."
The sellers of **** enhancement pills also say top quality, But we all know that nobody is growing horse members.

Is that supposed to be an argument that shows Bennic/Dayton are not good quality caps? If so, then there are a lot of spectacular loudspeakers that outperform "upgraded" Monitor 10s in every way AND use cheaper caps.

DON73

In my opinion the time and effort required to update the crossovers warrants using the best components you can afford. The kits may provide some improvement over the very old caps in the old Monitor 10s but I'd rather spend more and be sure of a real improvement.

Whenever I hear someone use the term "Blows **** XXXX out of the water" I stop reading.:eek::eek:

jcandy

heiney9 wrote: »

Here we go again. JCandy knows all!

To the OP, You can buy better parts than the Ebay kit. If you don't want too, then buy the Ebay kit. But the tried and true methods outlined here in CP over the past 5-6 years yield excellent results time after time vs. buying something from someone you don't have a clue about and is in it to make a profit.

Yes, profit! What do you suppose the profit margin is for a $250 V-Cap?

jcandy

DON73 wrote: »

In my opinion the time and effort required to update the crossovers warrants using the best components you can afford. The kits may provide some improvement over the very old caps in the old Monitor 10s but I'd rather spend more and be sure of a real improvement.

Whenever I hear someone use the term "Blows **** XXXX out of the water" I stop reading.:eek::eek:

But why do you think paying more will guarantee a real improvement? Do you have any evidence that capacitor performance, like the taste of wine, is directly proportional to cost? Sounds highly unlikely to me. On the other hand, many respected speaker designers see little need to move beyond Dayton/Bennic caps even for speakers that use tweeters (say, a Scan-Speak 6k or 7k series, or a Seas Millenium) that are world-class.

intangible

1) Subjective
I have two sets of speakers which use RD0-198 tweeters. One has Gen 1 Sonicaps in that portion of the crossover while the other has 5% tolerance Daytons. The highs the speakers produce are, to the best of my ability to hear, identical. Obviously a highly unscientific test, but enough to convince me to purchase Daytons for any future crossovers I want to recap.

2) Objective
What exactly is the difference between a Dayton cap and a Gen 1 Sonicap? They're both polypropylene, or am I mistaken on that point?

ben62670

Jcandy you are just a troll. Many here have tried numerous combinations of different caps in the crossovers. If you tried a few different brands you would notice that many of the different caps have their own sonic signature. Till you try different caps with the same speakers running the same gear please keep your ignorance to yourself. Again another stupid post about extremely high dollar pieces that nobody I know of uses in these vintage Polk's.

heiney9

jcandy wrote: »

Yes, profit! What do you suppose the profit margin is for a $250 V-Cap?

V-Cap isn't actively soliciting on Ebay with a special upgrade kit for a narrow type of 20 year old speaker. Get your head out of your ****.......all companies make products for profit.

My point was that he (the Ebay seller) has no vested interest other than making a profit, whereas many people on CP have made suggestions and actually done the work have nothing financial to gain by suggesting he use better caps and resistors than the kit on Ebay.

..........and you have a PhD, and couldn't make that connection :rolleyes:

H9

heiney9

jcandy wrote: »

Is that supposed to be an argument that shows Bennic/Dayton are not good quality caps? If so, then there are a lot of spectacular loudspeakers that outperform "upgraded" Monitor 10s in every way AND use cheaper caps.

jcandy wrote: »

But why do you think paying more will guarantee a real improvement? Do you have any evidence that capacitor performance, like the taste of wine, is directly proportional to cost? Sounds highly unlikely to me. On the other hand, many respected speaker designers see little need to move beyond Dayton/Bennic caps even for speakers that use tweeters (say, a Scan-Speak 6k or 7k series, or a Seas Millenium) that are world-class.

jcandy wrote: »

You think a new Dayton (Bennic) cap will be the weak link in a 30-year-old monitor 10

Here are the crossover component recommendations for the Zaph ZD5 loudspeaker (http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZD5.html), something that will blow the monitor 10, for example, out of the water in terms of midrange and high-frequency performance:

Eagle Metal Oxide Film for all resistors. Madisound medium bobbin standard air cores for all inductors except L14, which can be anything you want as long as it's DCR is .3 ohms or less. A Solen Perfect Lay 14 awg will do for L14, but a Sledgehammer Steel Laminate 15AWG will do even better for less money if you can unwind a 2.0mH to 1.8mH and have an LCR meter to confirm the value. Madisound can also unwind it for you for a small fee. Bennic Poly capacitors for all caps except for C10 and C20, which can be electrolytic. If you're afraid of using electrolytics, I recommend Solen Chateauroux Poly Fast Caps for C10 and C10. For C1, you will have to parallel a 1.0 and 3.3uF.

Note that compared to the ZD5 crossover, the monitor 10 crossover looks like a 72 VW Beetle compared to a 2011 Porsche. Better crossovers are very audible, boutique caps are probably at the limit of audibility, so it doesn't make much sense to throw away too much money on them. You're trying to make a VW into a Porsche by upgrading the spark plugs.

For this reason, I would think Bennic/Dayton is entirely appropriate.

Blah...blah...blah.....blah....blah....blah.....

H9

inspiredsports

seventy1 wrote: »

I'm sure this must have been talked about before, but I can't seem to find a thread about the "upgrade kit" listed on eBay (item 260753425018). It appears to be more than just updated to polypro caps, claims to correct problems in the mid and upper frequencies that make the speakers "irritating". Just wondering if anyone hass tried the kit and what you think. Thanks!

It will be a waste of time and money and sound like a$$ if you use the eBay kit, but on the other hand, someone should try it so the "objective only" folks don't have a conniption fit.

I nominate jcandy to order and solder some of these in place soon.

Toolfan66

intangible wrote: »

1) Subjective
I have two sets of speakers which use RD0-198 tweeters. One has Gen 1 Sonicaps in that portion of the crossover while the other has 5% tolerance Daytons. The highs the speakers produce are, to the best of my ability to hear, identical. Obviously a highly unscientific test, but enough to convince me to purchase Daytons for any future crossovers I want to recap.

2) Objective
What exactly is the difference between a Dayton cap and a Gen 1 Sonicap? They're both polypropylene, or am I mistaken on that point?

And what gear are you using to power them???? Remember everything matters in the chain, and that is fact!!!