Pure Class A Push Pull

FTGV

megasat16 wrote: »

The ESL do love the high voltage gains. I think that's why some ESL comes with the step up transformer?

Yes the step up transformer is needed to energize the stators. ESL's present a capacitive (reactive)load and some can even dip into the 1-2 ohm range at high frequencies.

The Ribbons and Planars with low Z love current more than voltage.

Yes.

I guess the Voltage Rails on the 555 would be high to have triple Darlington gain stage?

I believe the rails are in the high 70-low80 volt range.Using the triple darlington output stage gave it better low impedance drive capability.Since at that time there were a few speakers that were presented rather diffcult loads so maybe that was part of the reason to switch to it.The downside is increased complexity and may impacted SQ negatively to some degree.

How do you know the Bryston 7B NRB and ST is capable of driving 1 ohm load in parallel mode? Does it applies to RMS capability or the drive for Occasionally dip at some Frequency? :biggrin:

RMS,as stated in the the spec sheet.

I know where to find the Bryston Manuals and Schema but aren't you supposed to Quote like Pass boys do. :biggrin:

Well sorry James but I generally don't link to manuals or articles and use them as the crux of my discussion points.I can read schematics and have a fair amount of practical experience diy'ing and modding so prefer to base most of my input from that.

megasat16

Well Fred, I think you got it easy coz Bryston put the 1 ohm Spec for 7B NRB and 7B ST spelled out in Black and White.

I wish Pass manual had done the same so Pass fanatics can take it easy too. :biggrin: :cool:

megasat16

heiney9 wrote: »

It's good for sh*ts and grins, but you know me, I'm not all about massive power.......unless one needs it of course .

Statement pieces for sure! All in good fun James. The Levinson's and Krell you mention are worthy as well. Again, being a Pass-o-phile I have several links as my favorites, that was one of them.

H9

Brock,

It's all in good funs for me too. I think we should do the Pass smack down more often?

Being Pass-o-phile got to be tough, huh?

I've asked the questions to everyone whoever quoted something from the manual. I've probably asked 1001 time already so I know what the answer is.

I could have asked NP but I am sure he'll just be pissed and frowned on me. And I can pretty much guess the answer.

In fact, I don't want to ask the question to Mr. Pass coz it's obvious there are two versions of Mr. Pass. One is who made the Pass Labs and First Watt amps and one is very helpful member in DIYaudio.

Mr. Pass has every right as any other high end company to market the products he sees fit. If I were to ask question from the manual in the Pass Forum, it won't obviously bode well with the Pass Fan group there.

I am not Krell or Levinson fan though. I like Levinson pre and sources but not the amps.

Levinson has gone mainstream with Class D amps nowadays.

heiney9

megasat16 wrote: »

Brock,

It's all in good funs for me too. I think we should do the Pass smack down more often?

Being Pass-o-phile got to be tough, huh?

I've asked the questions to everyone whoever quoted something from the manual. I've probably asked 1001 time already so I know what the answer is.

I could have asked NP but I am sure he'll just be pissed and frowned on me. And I can pretty much guess the answer.

In fact, I don't want to ask the question to Mr. Pass coz it's obvious there are two versions of Mr. Pass. One is who made the Pass Labs and First Watt amps and one is very helpful member in DIYaudio.

Mr. Pass has every right as any other high end company to market the products he sees fit. If I were to ask question from the manual in the Pass Forum, it won't obviously bode well with the Pass Fan group there.

Again, I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm as confused as ever

So NP will get pissed? Anything he writes in his manual is pure marketing, but the specs in the Bryston manual are 100% accurate? NP is Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde and the Pass fan group here will get mad at you...............for what?

Seriously, I have no idea what this is all about. :frown:

H9

heiney9

Allow me to break it down.....correct me if I'm wrong.

megasat16 wrote: »

Being Pass-o-phile got to be tough, huh?

Actually, it's quite rewarding.

megasat16 wrote: »

I've asked the questions to everyone whoever quoted something from the manual. I've probably asked 1001 time already so I know what the answer is.

So you know most things and are just asking the same questions over and over.

megasat16 wrote: »

I could have asked NP but I am sure he'll just be pissed and frowned on me. And I can pretty much guess the answer.

So now you can get inside his mind and I have never seen him even remotely get angry with anyone. Again you already know the answer, thanks for sharing. A little arrogant on your part James.

megasat16 wrote: »

In fact, I don't want to ask the question to Mr. Pass coz it's obvious there are two versions of Mr. Pass. One is who made the Pass Labs and First Watt amps and one is very helpful member in DIYaudio.

Again arrogant and I have no idea why you would say this..........it's patently false.

megasat16 wrote: »

Mr. Pass has every right as any other high end company to market the products he sees fit. If I were to ask question from the manual in the Pass Forum, it won't obviously bode well with the Pass Fan group there.

Why? Of course he markets his products. Are you saying he is untruthful? Why wouldn't it bode well?

For someone who claims to be black and white and say it like it is this whole post reeks of beating around the bush.

H9

inspiredsports

I know you gotta pay to play, but when I look at some of these pure Class A amps that pull a kilowatt per hour, I cringe.

Let's see, we're at 13 cents per KWh here. 365 days per year X 24 hours per day = 8,760 hours per year. 8,760 X .13 = $1,138.90, (assuming you don't need to run additional cooling fans) and then you'll pay some more to cool the place down in the warmer months.

And with energy policies now in place so that electricity prices "will necessarily skyrocket", I think it's a safe bet you can triple that budget over the next several years.

A good A/B is looking might fine right now.

heiney9

inspiredsports wrote: »

I know you gotta pay to play, but when I look at some of these pure Class A amps that pull a kilowatt per hour, I cringe.

Let's see, we're at 13 cents per KWh here. 365 days per year X 24 hours per day = 8,760 hours per year. 8,760 X .13 = $1,138.90, (assuming you don't need to run additional cooling fans) and then you'll pay some more to cool the place down in the warmer months.

And with energy policies now in place so that electricity prices "will necessarily skyrocket", I think it's a safe bet you can triple that budget over the next several years.

A good A/B is looking might fine right now.

Which ones Greg? You don't need a Class A amp that pulls 1KWh unless you have extremely demanding speakers. .13c KWh, holy crap that's a lot!!!! Are you sure about that? We are at about .06 KWh. You also don't pay a straight rate for every KWh used, it's usually tiered based on seasonal changes and peak times as well as tiered based on usage, so your calculation seems very high.

When I first got the Aleph I used a Kilo-watt device which measures usage. I left the amp on 24/7 for a month. It draws 200 W continous regardless of musical content and it cost me about an extra $5-6/month.

H9

inspiredsports

heiney9 wrote: »

Which ones Greg? You don't need a Class A amp that pulls 1KWh unless you have extremely demanding speakers. .13c KWh, holy crap that's a lot!!!! Are you sure about that? We are at about .06 KWh. You also don't pay a straight rate for every KWh used, it's usually tiered based on seasonal changes and peak times as well as tiered based on usage, so your calculation seems very high.

When I first got the Aleph I used a Kilo-watt device which measures usage. I left the amp on 24/7 for a month. It draws 200 W continous regardless of musical content and it cost me about an extra $5-6/month.

H9

I was taking it to the extreme using some of those big Pass Class A XA series monoblocks that use 300 to 700 watts at idle.

Yes, when I divide my dollar amount due by kilowatts used, we are just over 13 cents total delivered cost per kwh here in NE Ohio.

heiney9

I checked mine and delivered we are at about .095c, but that goes down in the Summer and to be honest I don't run my gear 24/7/365. 300W idle for say 60% of the year isn't a whole lot more than leaving a couple porch lights on 24/7/365.

I get what you're saying, but the original cost you came up with it at the very extreme. In the end you will pay more, but it's not going to break the bank unless you are in the senario you described in the earlier post.

H9

megasat16

Brock,

This is getting ridiculous. You understand Pass Lab is operating for profits as a Business. It is entitled to make marketing as much as everyone else in the Business.

Why would I want to ask the marketing materials to the nice person that is very helpful in the DIYAudio?

Truthful? Who makes 100% Truthful claims in the Audio?

Heck, don't even tell me to spell out where the marketing part is in Black or White?

Do you even know what does it mean?

"The Aleph 30 is impervious to electrostatic shock at the input and dead shorts at the output. You can safely plug and unplug inputs and outputs while the amplifier is running. (Do not try this with other products).The Aleph 30 is protected from overheating by a 75 degree C. thermostatic switch, and from internal failure by a slow-blow fuse."

I've had amps from the 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, and fairly newer ones. Most Solid State amp is capable of doing that feat.

While it's true some amps will be damaged doing that, it's most likely the thump will destroy the speakers. It's even possible some pre got destroyed coz any well designed amps are pretty much shock proof for that kind of claims.

Now, what the hell it's even written in the manual for?

Bottom line, I understand you are a pass fan. I am as much a fan as you are and I really enjoy Threshold Fet 1 MKII preamp so I kept it.

But don't even try to paint someone into something that's not.

Like I said, I have respect for the man Mr. Pass but I am more than happy to carry it on further at DIYAudio if you insist. :biggrin:

You need to understand Pass (and Levinson also) are both the man and the company. As a man, they are very honest. As a company, they have to use pretty marketing when necessary.

If you can't see that, I suggest you better stop there before I get serious about it.

megasat16

heiney9 wrote: »

For someone who claims to be black and white and say it like it is this whole post reeks of beating around the bush.

H9

You need to quite beating people with the petty words. You above all in CP does that all the time here.

Now, you are being hurtful coz you think I am taking a shot at Pass.

You probably come to understand I wear a thick skin and childish insults don't work on me.

heiney9

James, you started dwon the road of beating people with petty words by trying to disprove what was quoted in the manual.

I will say for the third and final time the reason I quoted that was in direct response to Tom's question about reliablity. Nothing more, nothing less. You started reading all sorts of claims into my response, as you always seem to do.

My stance has been from the beginning when Tom asked about reliability I personally feel an amp that can withstand a direct short is a pretty reliable and very good design. Nowhere did I say it was the only amp that could do that, nowhere did I say any of the things you are eluding to in your posts. I was sincere about you asking NP if you were truly interested if it could drive a 1 ohm load of Appogee speakers. Now I realize you were just trying "teach" that you already know it's not possible. You eleuded to it being nothing more than marketing. You are the one constantly on the defensive whenever I talk passionately about Pass products. That's where my interest lies and that's where my journey is right now and that's what I WANT to discuss.

I can't control how you read into things that I post. You have become a tiny bit arrogant because you think you know better in every situation. Take all the shots at Pass you want, I don;t care because I happen to love his audio gear, his philosophy, his approach to audio, his business model and he seems to be a pretty grounded and nice guy.

Please don't read anymore into that statement than it's face value. You seem to think that because I think highly of certain things that I automatically think everything else stinks or is inferior, I don't by a long shot.

A cooling off period is in order or we just need to not post in each other's threads, because I am becoming highly annoyed at some of your comments.

H9

megasat16

Brock,

What I read is the manual. Not your posts. It's what said in the manual as you quoted it. I read it the same way anyone would but I interpret it differently from you.

It's not even about what you said. Don't you get it already?

But you seem to be attacking mode all the time? Reread your posts?

Now, I am a tiny bit arrogant only? Make up your mind already!

About arrogant and verbose, read and count words in every posts you and I made and come up with the tally?

Cooling off period? I never even got warmed up.

Put me in the List? Gladly Sir! It's possibly nicer to play in the Sandbox alone.

steveinaz

Hey man, you gotta go thru Brock to get at Nelson....:biggrin:

Relax fellers, it's Friday.

FTGV

Guys this is getting silly, (IMO ofcourse).

megasat16

FTGV wrote: »

Guys this is getting silly, (IMO ofcourse).

Very much so!

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Brock,

I don't deny teasing you a bit coz you being a Pass fan but nothing to the point to insult you or Pass. In fact, I have nothing to insult Pass at all. He is one of the best guys in the amplifier design (less some marketing from his company and some of his opinions).

The majority of my posts are "comments with regards to what I read from the manuals" and not directed at you except some occasional jokes.

But however you want to slice and dice it, it's fine with me.

Now, I'll go play some tunes and when I come back, I hope this thread is back to normal business.

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