Conrad Johnson MV-60
TroyD
Posts: 13,077
A buddy of mine recently purchased this amp and since he was going out of town for the weekend, he dropped it off for me to play with this weekend so I could get my tube jolies on.
If you are used to the size of Carver amps, this sucker is BIG and HEAVY and the cool factor is astronomical. Connections and so forth all seem to be first class. I'm not going into too much detail on the cosmetics and so forth as you can read about that on the CJ website or go look at one in person.
I was a little worried about it's 55wpc output in the cave as the DQ-10's are notoriously power hungry but I went with it anyway (I also have the LSi7's in the cave as well).
So, you may ask, how did it sound?
Well, I'll tell you, this is my first real dabbling with a tube amp for more than an hour or so. While I still don't feel that I know enough about it to give a thorough review, I do think I can point out a few things. The first thing that struck me is how wonderful it reproduced string intstruments. One of the first tracks I played was 10,000 Maniacs 'Thank You' and the opening riff, well, I've never heard it sound more natural. I played a few more demo tracks and was just stunned at how well it handled string instruments. Vocals were very natural sounding, again, I've heard Natalie Merchant on a few occaisons and the the MV-60 hooked up to the DQ-10's it sounded more like how I remember Natalie sounding than I've heard on any other rig that I can think of. If you are a fan of acoustical music, this is your amp. The lovely Wendi popped in Diana Krall and it was simply incredible. As far as vocals (particularly female) you would be hard pressed to find an amp that was so natural sounding, albeit just a tad forward (which isn't a bad thing). Van Morrisons vocals on 'Crazy Love' and 'It Stoned Me' an appropriately nasal quality, without sounding muddy or too laid back.
The other thing that I find that it did extremely well was tame the sometimes edgy highs of the DQ-10. It put a nice smooth edge on and rolled off, IMO, fairly quickly but extremely smooth. One of the Telarc discs that I have (can't remember which one, or what the piece was and I'm too lazy to find it and look it up) has a passage that has a lot of piccolos in it. Sounded light and airy without a trace of harshness.
Now, what DIDN'T it do well? Tough to say, as the shortcomings I noticed I don't know how much is the amp itself or the amp being overtasked. However, I ran through some pretty demanding pieces (IE William Tell Overature etc) and at normal listening levels, it seemed to push the DQ-10's without complaint (I didn't abuse it though as it's not my amp). I found that the bass was pretty sloppy actually. Particularly the kettle drums in the WTO were sloppy and very faint. If you are a bass freak, this is NOT your amp. I'm not a bass freak so I found it mildly annoying but not a deal breaker.
In complex passages the soundstage tends to compress significantly. Now, this could be the amps simply running out of steam. With realtively uncomplicated pieces, ie. 'Ship of Fools' by Robert Plant, the soundstage is a mile wide and just as deep. Put in Rippington's 'Live in LA' disc which gets very busy, and there is a very distinct constricting of the soundstage. I've never had this happen with my Carver amps. This was the most distracting thing about the amp.
All in all, it's a very engaging amp, I sat and listened to it for, oh, 4 hrs non stop at one point without a trace of listener fatigue. Usually, I can't do that. I just kept spinning disc after disc. It's sound is 180 degrees from the Carver which is very clean, almost clinical sounding (which I like very much) and strong top to bottom whereas the CJ is very lush and mellow (albeit less detailed). Now as to which I would choose if I had to (than God I don't), it would be almost a wash. I really don't know (cost no object) how I'd go to be honest which I think is a real tribute to the Carver amps.
Oh, associated equipment:
AMC CD8b
Adcom SLC-505 passive pre
Dahlquist DQ-10's / LSi7's (most listening done on the DQ's)
Signal Cable IC's
AR wire
Just my .02
BDT
If you are used to the size of Carver amps, this sucker is BIG and HEAVY and the cool factor is astronomical. Connections and so forth all seem to be first class. I'm not going into too much detail on the cosmetics and so forth as you can read about that on the CJ website or go look at one in person.
I was a little worried about it's 55wpc output in the cave as the DQ-10's are notoriously power hungry but I went with it anyway (I also have the LSi7's in the cave as well).
So, you may ask, how did it sound?
Well, I'll tell you, this is my first real dabbling with a tube amp for more than an hour or so. While I still don't feel that I know enough about it to give a thorough review, I do think I can point out a few things. The first thing that struck me is how wonderful it reproduced string intstruments. One of the first tracks I played was 10,000 Maniacs 'Thank You' and the opening riff, well, I've never heard it sound more natural. I played a few more demo tracks and was just stunned at how well it handled string instruments. Vocals were very natural sounding, again, I've heard Natalie Merchant on a few occaisons and the the MV-60 hooked up to the DQ-10's it sounded more like how I remember Natalie sounding than I've heard on any other rig that I can think of. If you are a fan of acoustical music, this is your amp. The lovely Wendi popped in Diana Krall and it was simply incredible. As far as vocals (particularly female) you would be hard pressed to find an amp that was so natural sounding, albeit just a tad forward (which isn't a bad thing). Van Morrisons vocals on 'Crazy Love' and 'It Stoned Me' an appropriately nasal quality, without sounding muddy or too laid back.
The other thing that I find that it did extremely well was tame the sometimes edgy highs of the DQ-10. It put a nice smooth edge on and rolled off, IMO, fairly quickly but extremely smooth. One of the Telarc discs that I have (can't remember which one, or what the piece was and I'm too lazy to find it and look it up) has a passage that has a lot of piccolos in it. Sounded light and airy without a trace of harshness.
Now, what DIDN'T it do well? Tough to say, as the shortcomings I noticed I don't know how much is the amp itself or the amp being overtasked. However, I ran through some pretty demanding pieces (IE William Tell Overature etc) and at normal listening levels, it seemed to push the DQ-10's without complaint (I didn't abuse it though as it's not my amp). I found that the bass was pretty sloppy actually. Particularly the kettle drums in the WTO were sloppy and very faint. If you are a bass freak, this is NOT your amp. I'm not a bass freak so I found it mildly annoying but not a deal breaker.
In complex passages the soundstage tends to compress significantly. Now, this could be the amps simply running out of steam. With realtively uncomplicated pieces, ie. 'Ship of Fools' by Robert Plant, the soundstage is a mile wide and just as deep. Put in Rippington's 'Live in LA' disc which gets very busy, and there is a very distinct constricting of the soundstage. I've never had this happen with my Carver amps. This was the most distracting thing about the amp.
All in all, it's a very engaging amp, I sat and listened to it for, oh, 4 hrs non stop at one point without a trace of listener fatigue. Usually, I can't do that. I just kept spinning disc after disc. It's sound is 180 degrees from the Carver which is very clean, almost clinical sounding (which I like very much) and strong top to bottom whereas the CJ is very lush and mellow (albeit less detailed). Now as to which I would choose if I had to (than God I don't), it would be almost a wash. I really don't know (cost no object) how I'd go to be honest which I think is a real tribute to the Carver amps.
Oh, associated equipment:
AMC CD8b
Adcom SLC-505 passive pre
Dahlquist DQ-10's / LSi7's (most listening done on the DQ's)
Signal Cable IC's
AR wire
Just my .02
BDT
I plan for the future. - F1Nut
Post edited by TroyD on
Comments
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What a great opportunity. I always wonder what a great tube amp would sound like but don't have the cash to test them. Maybe you could try a single singer for comparison, something quite, that way the amp probably won't run out of steam.
Have a blast. -
If you get a chance I would love to hear what you think of that amp with the Lsi7's on it.HT
Mits WD-65737, DirecTV, Oppo DV-970HD, XBOX ONE, Yamaha RX-A1030, Parasound Halo A23, Rotel RB-985, Music Hall MMF-7, Parasound PPH-100, LSi-15, LSi-C, LSi-FX, LSi-7, PSW-1000, Monster HTS2600
2 CH
Parasound Halo P3, Parasound Halo A21, Sutherland Ph.D, VPI Classic 3 w/ 3D arm & Soundsmith Aida Cartridge, Arcam CD72T, B&W 802 S3, Monster HTS2500, -
To be honest, I didn't do a LOT of listening on the 7's but what I heard on the 7's was pretty consistent with what I heard on the DQ-10's.
BDTI plan for the future. - F1Nut -
Excellent write up Troy! CJ stuff are very pricey. Seems like you're getting the tube sound from your DQ's.
The sloppy bass you got is not from the amp. A lot of folks at the tubeasylum.com had problems with bass from their CJ's being sloppy and getting the right tubes fixed their problems. If you don't mind, can you post the brand and type of tubes in the amp? I hear CJ amps don't do very well with some tubes.
Maurice -
Nice review Troy,
Between you and Organ you guys are going to make me want to get into some tube gear one day I swear
Natalie Merchant I use all the time to evaluate changes in my system. I like her Tigerlilly album the best. Diana Krall same thing although her voice isn't quite as smooth as Natalie's but the Jazz instruments in their can be quite revealing.
:cool:
Paul -
Wow, you had a CJ in your house, and actually let him come back and get it?
Pricey, yeah. I've seen CJ tube PREs go for $300-$600 on ebay on occasion though. Next step for me is a tube pre, I think I'll stay SS on the amp end, just for the economy to horsepower ratio. The tube pre should put the icing on the cake, and hopefully give me the best of both worlds.
Cheers,
RussCheck your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service. -
Hybrid integrated anyone? Jolida is coming out with a new unit this Fall; it sports 200 watts of power X 2 channels. Looks cool
I suppose if you already have a pre or a power that you would want to utilize it, but hybrids are an option for someone without either, and who would like to get that tried and true 'tube pre/SS power' sound.
Two Channel Setup:
Speakers: Wharfedale Opus 2-3
Integrated Amp: Krell S-300i
DAC: Arcam irDac
Source: iMac
Remote Control: iPad Mini
3.2 Home Theater Setup:
Fronts: Klipsch RP-160M
Center: Klipsch RP-160M
Subwoofer: SVS PB12NSD (X 2)
AVR: Yamaha Aventage RX-A2030
Blu Ray: Sony BDP-S790
TV Source: DirecTV Genie -
The cheapest CJ pre at my dealer is $2400CDN:(.
Maurice -
The ASL pre that organ just reviewed is on my SHORT list for Christmas (maggies looks like going to push back again) this year. Amps I got and to be honest, for the reasons that Russ described above, I'm also looking at the tube pre / SS amp route as well.
Oh, don't know what tubes were in the CJ, didn't think to ask.
BDTI plan for the future. - F1Nut -
Originally posted by RuSsMaN
Wow, you had a CJ in your house, and actually let him come back and get it?
Cheers,
Russ
Knock knock... Knock... knock... Come on, I know you are in there, I just want to pick up my amp. Let me in. I'm not leaving until I get my amp!Vinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... -
So has anyone tried a sand/ tube bi-amp combo?
May not make alot of sense on Polks with their mid-woofer drivers, but on a legit three-way???More later,
Tour...
Vox Copuli
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb
"Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
"It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
"There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD -
I saw a dramatic improvement in my system when I added the ARC tube pre to the Bryston ss. Highs, soundstage, female vocals all improved, but the SS bass remained.
One thing that would keep me from a tube amp is the cost of tube replacement every couple of years....2 or 3 tubes in the pre versus 8-12 for an amp (depending on model). IMO for now I feel I have the best of both worlds. -
Any **** can write a review....even your dumbassI still don't feel that I know enough about it to give a thorough review
Thats because you own Carver....wake up and smell the really real worldI've never heard it sound more naturalThe other thing that I find that it did extremely well was tame the sometimes edgy highs of the DQ-10. It put a nice smooth edge on and rolled off, IMO, fairly quickly but extremely smooth. One of the Telarc discs that I have (can't remember which one, or what the piece was and I'm too lazy to find it and look it up) has a passage that has a lot of piccolos in it. Sounded light and airy without a trace of harshness.
well what can be said.....harshness........Carver...go hand and hand.....I found that the bass was pretty sloppy actually. Particularly the kettle drums in the WTO were sloppy and very faint. If you are a bass freak, this is NOT your amp. I'm not a bass freak so I found it mildly annoying but not a deal breaker.
Now that you can hear what the DQ's really sound like,you just might not be into those bass drivers.
Reason why you can't listen for long periods of time Troy is all in the Carver.........All in all, it's a very engaging amp, I sat and listened to it for, oh, 4 hrs non stop at one point without a trace of listener fatigue. Usually, I can't do that. I just kept spinning disc after disc. It's sound is 180 degrees from the Carver which is very clean, almost clinical sounding (which I like very much) and strong top to bottom whereas the CJ is very lush and mellow (albeit less detailed). Now as to which I would choose if I had to (than God I don't), it would be almost a wash. I really don't know (cost no object) how I'd go to be honest which I think is a real tribute to the Carver amps.
Evil MantisDan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
How's the house Dan? Got that 7.1 8tc run yet?
You know nothing about Carver, DQ-10's, or CJ gear for that matter. YOU sir, are irrelevant.
What a sad display, I actually deep down ALMOST feel sorry for you.
Cheers,
Laughing RussCheck your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service. -
I was really enjoying this thread right up untill.... ahhhh you know. Oh well?
HBomb***WAREMTAE*** -
2 BAD isn't it Hbomb2.thats the way it is around here.Good thead gone bad.Happens all the time.
Russ,
House is getting the use and occupancy permits tomarrow,house is done,we will be in soon, not that you give one fig about.8tc/8tc all around,so what.You'll never be invited to hear it.Your not welcome in my house,never will be....
End it.It's over between us.......Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Now that you can hear what the DQ's really sound like,you just might not be into those bass drivers
Dan, first, if you are going to bash something, it's helpful to bash something that you have some experience with.
The Advent 10" driver is not an obscure driver and is universally loved. Having said that, I just feel that the tube amp didn't have the control that the Carvers do. In fact, what your are hypothesizing is actually a compliment to the Carver amp (suggesting that it makes an inferior driver sound better than it should).
You know, looking at the specs at the CJ, on paper, it looks pretty unimpressive. Just goes to show that specs aren't ALL that. Particularly THD ratings.
BDTI plan for the future. - F1Nut -
Originally posted by mantis
2 BAD isn't it Hbomb2.thats the way it is around here.Good thead gone bad.Happens all the time.
Sad thing is.....its your sorry tail that derailed and burned this thread....yet I dont think you realize that......but maybe you do....
If troy is talking about the 10 inch advent woofer I think he is.....I can vouch for that thing, that thing has room shaking bass. Very accurate, and punchy bass.- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
Good call Sid.Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
Sad thing is.....its your sorry tail that derailed and burned this thread....yet I dont think you realize that......but maybe you do....
Dan,
Not cool... interpersonal history or not.... not cool.
Sid rightly stood up for the Advent woofers. The AlNiCo's Advent used in the begining and supplied to Dahlquist were legendary.
I'll stand up for the Carvers. They busted the power amp price performance curve and grew more and more refined throughout their run. A legacy I am pleased to say Sunfire has continued.More later,
Tour...
Vox Copuli
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb
"Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
"It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
"There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD -
HI, MY NAME IS RUSSELL COCO I AM LOOKING FOR ANY INFO ON THE Jolida JD200 CD Player: YOU CAN EMAIL ME AT STEREO70BEES@HOTMAIL.COM, I AM NEW TO THIS WEBSITE AND I HAVE A TON OF EQUIPMENT , 46YEARS OF COLLECTING
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Have you ever heard stacked dq10s that were mirror imaged with dahlquist crossover and crown subs stereo70bees2hotmail.com
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Loud & Clear wrote: »Hybrid integrated anyone? Jolida is coming out with a new unit this Fall; it sports 200 watts of power X 2 channels. Looks cool
I suppose if you already have a pre or a power that you would want to utilize it, but hybrids are an option for someone without either, and who would like to get that tried and true 'tube pre/SS power' sound.
I really like the tube pre/SS power combination.
I have both a Antique Sound Labs and a Counterpoint SA-1000 (really a tube/Mosfet hybrid) tube preamps, and have used them with good results with big (200 wpc) Adcom, Rotel, Sumo, and B&K power amps.
I seem to always prefer the tube pre to other SS pre's that I have such as Forte, Sumo, NAD, Luxman etc.
Most of my recent experience is with Dahlquist DQ-10's and DQ-20's speakers.
I tried the tube preamps with my only tube power amp, a Dynaco ST-70 (maybe 35 or 40 wpc on a good day) but it struggled with the inefficient DQ's.
If I ever find a powerfull and affordable tube power amp I may give up the big SS power amps.Norh ACA-2B tube pre, Sumo Andromeda SS amp. Magneplanar MMG speakers, M&K MX1250 Subwoofer, Pro-Ject RM1.3 Genie TT with Sumiko Pearl MM cart., Keces DAC, Cambridge Audio Azur 640c CD player -
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Holy crap...blast/past...that whole thing.
BDTI plan for the future. - F1Nut -
NecropostingAVR: Elite VSX-21TXH
Amplifier: B&K 7250 Series ii
Misc: Velodyne SMS-1
Mains: RTi-10
Center: CSi-5
Rear: Boston DSi460
Sub: SVS PC-Ultra
TV: Panasonic TC-P58V10
DVD: Panasonic DMP-BD60K
