Emotiva amplifiers and my Tsi setup

KyleM
KyleM Posts: 6
edited March 2011 in Basic Hookup/Wiring Questions
hey guys just wondering what everyone here thinks about this.

now i'm looking at investing in a nice amplifier.
emotiva's amplifiers are in my price range, specifically the UPA-7 and the XPA-3.

now what do you think would be better, buying the UPA 7 which is a 7 channel amplifier with 125 wpc and run my fronts bi-amped and also have my rears amplified.

OR

get the XPA 3 which is a 3 channel rated at 200 wpc running my centre and fronts?

my main use for all of this is home theatre, but i do like music through the multi channel. any help would be greatly appreciated! :biggrin:
HT: Onkyo HT-RC270, Polk Audio Tsi 500, Polk Audio Tsi 300, Polk Audio CS20, Velodyne VDR12, Polk Audio PSW111
Room: Sophia electric baby(tube), GF Dac-11, Totem Mite's
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  • KyleM
    KyleM Posts: 6
    edited February 2011
    i guess it would be nice to add a signature
    HT: Onkyo HT-RC270, Polk Audio Tsi 500, Polk Audio Tsi 300, Polk Audio CS20, Velodyne VDR12, Polk Audio PSW111
    Room: Sophia electric baby(tube), GF Dac-11, Totem Mite's
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  • B Run
    B Run Posts: 1,888
    edited February 2011
    Personally i'd go XPA-3 because your receiver shouldn't have any problem driving a pair of Tsi300's. That's just one vote though, i'm curious to see what the general consensus is.
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  • gfong
    gfong Posts: 1,079
    edited February 2011
    B Run wrote: »
    Personally i'd go XPA-3 because your receiver shouldn't have any problem driving a pair of Tsi300's.

    Out of the two amps I would agree with above.
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  • KyleM
    KyleM Posts: 6
    edited February 2011
    hmm such a tough decision.
    what is the power distribution in the Tsi 500's?

    i heard that when regular amped they run the tweeter and three of the 6.5" drivers leaving the 4th as passive.
    but when bi-amped it dedicates top tweeter and 2 drivers to highs/mids and the lower 2 to a lower mid.
    can anyone verify this?
    HT: Onkyo HT-RC270, Polk Audio Tsi 500, Polk Audio Tsi 300, Polk Audio CS20, Velodyne VDR12, Polk Audio PSW111
    Room: Sophia electric baby(tube), GF Dac-11, Totem Mite's
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  • B Run
    B Run Posts: 1,888
    edited February 2011
    KyleM wrote: »
    i heard that when regular amped they run the tweeter and three of the 6.5" drivers leaving the 4th as passive.
    but when bi-amped it dedicates top tweeter and 2 drivers to highs/mids and the lower 2 to a lower mid.
    can anyone verify this?

    That's not correct at all. The work exactly the same way, all you would be doing is taking off the metal jumpers and powering both sets of binding posts separately. You're better off with more watts per channel and quality jumpers, but there's hundreds of threads here arguing that, i'll let you decide for yourself.
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  • spock 2054
    spock 2054 Posts: 163
    edited February 2011
    B Run wrote: »
    That's not correct at all. The work exactly the same way, all you would be doing is taking off the metal jumpers and powering both sets of binding posts separately. You're better off with more watts per channel and quality jumpers, but there's hundreds of threads here arguing that, i'll let you decide for yourself.

    Actually, the OP is better off with a high current amp, than more watts per channel.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_22XOakyxM
    polk monitor 70's
    center - polk monitor cs2
    surround - polk monitor 60's
    surround back - jbl e10
    sub - velodyne dps 12
    sub - polk psw110
    avr/pre-amp - onkyo tx-nr809
    amp - adcom gfa-5500
    amp - carver av405
    display - sharp lc70le847u
    tv - silicon dust hd homern
    blu-ray - oppo bdp-103
    hd dvd- toshiba hd xa2
    control - logitech harmony one
    turntable - technics sl1500 mkII
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  • geebolt
    geebolt Posts: 215
    edited February 2011
    XPA-3 gets my vote....
    Fronts: Polk RTi A7's
    Center: Polk CSi A6
    Surrounds: Polk TSi500's
    Subwoofer:Polk DSW Pro 500, Emotiva Ultra 12
    Amplifier: Emotiva XPA-5
    Processor/AVR: Emotiva UMC-1
    DAC: Emotiva XDA-1
    CD player:Emotiva ERC-1
    Blu-Ray: Oppo BDP-93
    Turntable: Kenwood KD-500
    Tonearm: Polk-Mayware Formula 4
    Cartridge: Shure M97-XE
    Television: Sony KDL-55EX500
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  • EUSORO
    EUSORO Posts: 16
    edited February 2011
    geebolt wrote: »
    XPA-3 gets my vote....

    +1 .. But you still need a Pre-amp.. To run any of these power amps in question. Do you already have one?
    Onkyo NR-3007
    Carver M-4.0t
    Parasound HCA 1200MKII
    Parasound HCA 2205A
    RTI-A9
    Csi-A6
    Tsi-100 (Highs)
    M5 (Rear)
    Rti6(Surrounds)
    RT7(Wides)
    Oppo DV-981HD
    PS3
    X360
    Klipsch Sub12
    Klipsch Sub10
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  • wutadumsn23
    wutadumsn23 Posts: 3,702
    edited February 2011
    EUSORO wrote: »
    +1 .. But you still need a Pre-amp.. To run any of these power amps in question. Do you already have one?


    +1, without an amp with Pre-outs for the amp, it isn't going to do you any good. If memory serves me the RC Onkyo models are from HTIB type setups, and most of those don't have the needed pre-outs for adding an external amp.

    -Jeff
    HT Rig
    Receiver- Onkyo TX-SR806
    Mains- Polk Audio Monitor 70
    Center- Polk Audio CS2
    Surrounds- Polk Audio TSi 500's :D
    Sub- Polk Audio PSW125
    Retired- Polk Audio Monitor 40's
    T.V.- 60" Sony SXRD KDS-60A2000 LCoS
    Blu-Ray- 80 GB PS3


    2 CH rig (in progress)
    Polk Audio Monitor 10A's :cool:

    It's not that I'm insensitive, I just don't care.. :D
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,988
    edited February 2011
    Lets not forget that your speakers are very easy to drive, and you have a sub in the mix to handle the low end. Bi-amping would be wasted. Knock your socks off if thats what you want to do though,it's your coin.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • KyleM
    KyleM Posts: 6
    edited February 2011
    thanks for the advice everyone. i think i will probably go with the xpa-3, and run the rears with the amp like you guys said.
    also the HTRC270 is actually not a HTIB, it is basically the same model as the TX-NR708. so it does have pre-outs the only big difference is the NR708 has 110 WPC 2 channels driven whereas mine has 100WPC.

    last question though,
    do you guys think addition of this amp will make a noticeable difference?
    HT: Onkyo HT-RC270, Polk Audio Tsi 500, Polk Audio Tsi 300, Polk Audio CS20, Velodyne VDR12, Polk Audio PSW111
    Room: Sophia electric baby(tube), GF Dac-11, Totem Mite's
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  • nguyendot
    nguyendot Posts: 3,594
    edited February 2011
    KyleM wrote: »
    thanks for the advice everyone. i think i will probably go with the xpa-3, and run the rears with the amp like you guys said.
    also the HTRC270 is actually not a HTIB, it is basically the same model as the TX-NR708. so it does have pre-outs the only big difference is the NR708 has 110 WPC 2 channels driven whereas mine has 100WPC.

    last question though,
    do you guys think addition of this amp will make a noticeable difference?

    Amp section is the same on them both - they're just rated differently.
    708 has 1 more HDMI, RS-232, and a 12V trigger.
    Main Surround -
    Epson 8350 Projector/ Elite Screens 120" / Pioneer Elite SC-35 / Sunfire Signature / Focal Chorus 716s / Focal Chorus CC / Polk MC80 / Polk PSW150 sub

    Bedroom - Sharp Aquos 70" 650 / Pioneer SC-1222k / Polk RT-55 / Polk CS-250

    Den - Rotel RSP-1068 / Threshold CAS-2 / Boston VR-M60 / BDP-05FD
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,988
    edited February 2011
    KyleM wrote: »
    last question though,
    do you guys think addition of this amp will make a noticeable difference?

    Any speaker will benefit from a good power source. The degree of that benefit has many variables, and only you can be that judge.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • angelsfann02
    angelsfann02 Posts: 589
    edited February 2011
    Yeah buddy, you will hear a difference! My Xpa5 really woke up my system. Go for it and dont look back!
    LIVING ROOM:
    Pioneer PDP-6070HD, Pioneer Elite SC-25, Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD,
    Emotiva XPA-5, Emotiva USP-1, Polk LSI15's, Polk LSiC, Velodyne 12", Mirage Nanosat Prestige rears, MIT AVT Speaker Cables, Audioquest King Cobra Interconnects, Panamax M5300pm Surge Protection/ Power Conditioning
    BEDROOM: VIZIO 32" LCD, Pioneer Elite VSX-23txh, Pioneer Elite BDP-23FD, Parasound HCA-2205A, Mirage Nanosat Prestige Speakers 5.1, Mirage S8 Sub, Monoprice cables, APC Surge Protection.
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  • aboroth00
    aboroth00 Posts: 1,106
    edited March 2011
    spock 2054 wrote: »
    Actually, the OP is better off with a high current amp, than more watts per channel.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_22XOakyxM

    Don't think he needs more current driving 8 ohm speakers. If there is a significant dip, maybe, but otherwies he's probably fine
    2Ch Tube Audio Convert
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,202
    edited March 2011
    aboroth00 wrote: »
    Don't think he needs more current driving 8 ohm speakers. If there is a significant dip, maybe, but otherwies he's probably fine

    Just because it's rated at nominal 8 ohms doesn't mean you don't or can't benefit from more current. Current is King and watts is just the standard everyone's accepted as a measuring tool (wrongly I might add).

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • krauley
    krauley Posts: 81
    edited March 2011
    angelsfann02 wrote: »
    Yeah buddy, you will hear a difference! My Xpa5 really woke up my system. Go for it and dont look back!

    +1 Just got my new XPA-5 hooked up and even with my M70s it is night and day from avr to avr/amp. :tongue:
    Onkyo 808
    Emotiva XPA-5
    Polk Audio M70s fronts
    Polk Audio Cs1 center
    Polk Audio 50s surrounds
    Polk Audio 30s backs
    Polk Audio Psw505 sub
    Polk Audio Psw10 sub
    Oppo BDP-93
    PS3 slim 250gb
    Vizio 55" Led-lcd
    HTPC Evga P55/Intel i7-860/Evga 260 Sli
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  • aboroth00
    aboroth00 Posts: 1,106
    edited March 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Just because it's rated at nominal 8 ohms doesn't mean you don't or can't benefit from more current. Current is King and watts is just the standard everyone's accepted as a measuring tool (wrongly I might add).

    H9

    At 8ohm nominal, at most the speaker probably dips to 6ohms maybe even occasionally which I doubt to 4ohms. Of course we cannot really know unless we see an impedance curve.

    At 8ohms, running normal levels wattage needed is relatively low meaning current needed is relatively low. When the impedance dips as typically lower frequencies and at higher volumes, more current is needed to push the speaker. However there are many other things to be measured in an amplifier such as dynamic headroom. As for a high current amp being stable into lower impedances (more current), it's not quite needed with 8 ohm nominal speakers.

    These speakers were most likely designed by polk to be run by a receiver, and at this load, it can be handily done. As for marked improvements from an amp, only experimentation can yield results. As for just pinning it on the need of a high current amp that's not entirely true, there are just many more factors.
    2Ch Tube Audio Convert
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  • wutadumsn23
    wutadumsn23 Posts: 3,702
    edited March 2011
    KyleM wrote: »
    also the HTRC270 is actually not a HTIB, it is basically the same model as the TX-NR708. so it does have pre-outs the only big difference is the NR708 has 110 WPC 2 channels driven whereas mine has 100WPC.

    My bad, they used the HT in older models of their HTIB AVR's. Guess I should have Google'd it before I opened my big mouth, lol.

    -Jeff
    HT Rig
    Receiver- Onkyo TX-SR806
    Mains- Polk Audio Monitor 70
    Center- Polk Audio CS2
    Surrounds- Polk Audio TSi 500's :D
    Sub- Polk Audio PSW125
    Retired- Polk Audio Monitor 40's
    T.V.- 60" Sony SXRD KDS-60A2000 LCoS
    Blu-Ray- 80 GB PS3


    2 CH rig (in progress)
    Polk Audio Monitor 10A's :cool:

    It's not that I'm insensitive, I just don't care.. :D
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  • el_duderino
    el_duderino Posts: 40
    edited March 2011
    Can you swing an extra 200 bucks? The XPA-5 is a brute and will really take care of all your speakers.

    If you wait till the next sale, the xpa-5 will cost the same as the xpa-3 anyway
    I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
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  • KyleM
    KyleM Posts: 6
    edited March 2011
    Thanks everyone for the help, its been greatly appreciated.
    el_duderino wrote: »
    Can you swing an extra 200 bucks? The XPA-5 is a brute and will really take care of all your speakers.

    If you wait till the next sale, the xpa-5 will cost the same as the xpa-3 anyway

    now i was thinking of doing that, but my worry is that because its rated at 200WPC and my rear speakers are only 150watts, will that increase the probability of blowing them?
    i do tend to play music very loud.

    another question i have though is that because my receiver does not have a 12v trigger out, how would i run an amplifier. i understand i can manually turn it on and off every time.
    i saw two solutions one involving a smart power bar, and one involving making an external trigger. anyone have another solution?
    HT: Onkyo HT-RC270, Polk Audio Tsi 500, Polk Audio Tsi 300, Polk Audio CS20, Velodyne VDR12, Polk Audio PSW111
    Room: Sophia electric baby(tube), GF Dac-11, Totem Mite's
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited March 2011
    All of your speakers will be just fine. They will only take as much power that they need to operate to their full potential. Your ears will give out before the speakers do if you get too carried away with the volume. As for your amp, just leave it on all the time, or if it has an auto on feature, put it on that & it will wake up when it receives a signal from your speakers.
    KyleM wrote: »
    Thanks everyone for the help, its been greatly appreciated.



    now i was thinking of doing that, but my worry is that because its rated at 200WPC and my rear speakers are only 150watts, will that increase the probability of blowing them?
    i do tend to play music very loud.

    another question i have though is that because my receiver does not have a 12v trigger out, how would i run an amplifier. i understand i can manually turn it on and off every time.
    i saw two solutions one involving a smart power bar, and one involving making an external trigger. anyone have another solution?
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • slammin86
    slammin86 Posts: 238
    edited March 2011
    I really wanted to go with the upa7. I had planned to bi amp the fronts and run the rest also, but space wouldn't let me.

    Either way you are going to be happy with the upgrade and added power. A separate amp will really wake up your speakers.
    Receiver: ONKYO 709
    Amplifier: Acurus A200x3
    Front: EmpTek E55Ti
    Center: EmpTek E56Ci
    Surround: EmpTek E5Bi
    Sub: Elemental Designs A5-350
    TV: LG 55"
    Blu-Ray: PS3
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  • Theheadsn
    Theheadsn Posts: 413
    edited March 2011
    Ive heard you cant bi amp the front speakers off the same external amp? wouldnt you need to different amps along with a crossover? Correct me if Im wrong
    Home Theater Setup
    • Receiver - Onkyo TX-RZ1100
    • Mains - Polk RTi A9's
    • External Amps - Outlaw 2200 Monoblocks for L/R/C
    • Center - Polk CSiA6
    • Side Surrounds - Polk FXiA6's
    • Atmos - 4 Polk 80F/X RT's
    • Sub - SVS PC-4000
    • T.V. - LG OLED65C7P

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  • slammin86
    slammin86 Posts: 238
    edited March 2011
    Theheadsn wrote: »
    Ive heard you cant bi amp the front speakers off the same external amp? wouldnt you need to different amps along with a crossover? Correct me if Im wrong

    I don't know why you would need an external crossover or separate amps.
    Receiver: ONKYO 709
    Amplifier: Acurus A200x3
    Front: EmpTek E55Ti
    Center: EmpTek E56Ci
    Surround: EmpTek E5Bi
    Sub: Elemental Designs A5-350
    TV: LG 55"
    Blu-Ray: PS3
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,202
    edited March 2011
    slammin86 wrote: »
    I don't know why you would need an external crossover or separate amps.

    It's not bi-amping then. Is a triathalon a single event run 3 times or 3 events run a single time?

    Using the same amp, sharing a power supply and passive x-over is not true bi-amping.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bi-amping

    Short and sweet ^

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,596
    edited March 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Is a triathalon a single event run 3 times or 3 events run a single time?

    So far this is my favorite quote this week lol....

    not that I can say much since I am "ghetto bi-amping" lol.....
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • Theheadsn
    Theheadsn Posts: 413
    edited March 2011
    haha exactly atleast im sorta learning something here.

    So far ive realized that "REAL" bi amping is A) hard to accomplish, and B) very expensive.

    If you can do it, hell that would be sweet, but honestly has anyone done bi amping the correct way that could give their opinions on how the sound difference was?

    Not normal bi amping from one receiver but from actually seperate amps and crossovers
    Home Theater Setup
    • Receiver - Onkyo TX-RZ1100
    • Mains - Polk RTi A9's
    • External Amps - Outlaw 2200 Monoblocks for L/R/C
    • Center - Polk CSiA6
    • Side Surrounds - Polk FXiA6's
    • Atmos - 4 Polk 80F/X RT's
    • Sub - SVS PC-4000
    • T.V. - LG OLED65C7P

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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,596
    edited March 2011
    Theheadsn wrote: »
    If you can do it, hell that would be sweet, but honestly has anyone done bi amping the correct way that could give their opinions on how the sound difference was?

    I believe ben62670 ran active for a bit, shoot him a PM and see...
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,326
    edited March 2011
    TSi's????? Get the UPA-7!!!!
    Polk Audio SDA 2.3tl Fully Hot Rodded. 😎

    SVS SB16 X2

    Cary SLP-05/Ultimate Upgrade.
    Cary SA-500.1 ES Amps
    Cary DMS 800PV Network
    OPPO UDP 205/ModWright Modification
    VPI Scout TT / Dynavector 20x2
    Jolida JD9 Fully Modified

    VPI MW-1 Cyclone RCM

    MIT Shotgun 3 cables throughout / Except TT, and PC’s
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