Building 2 channel rig, need input

B&W802d

Ok here it goes. I want to build a 2 channel system that will last a very long time. The only thing that will never change is the speakers. I will be using some B&W 802d. All the rest is up in the air. I have read and read till I cannot read anymore. You all have the gear experience and technical experience as well. I have 3 rooms I can use for the 2 channel system. One room has 30 ft. ceilings that slope with exposed wooden beams for support. The room itself is empty right now except for a Persian rug on the floor. The dimensions are 50'x30' (or pretty close). I was going to use this room for full size arcade games,pool table,and other stuff like that. I am thinking this may be the room I want to use though. I will need everything as I am starting from scratch. Oh, the budget, I want to try and stay under 40 grand if at all possible but if it goes over so be it. Let the games begin.

B&W802d

Like I mentioned in the 200 wpc thread, I tried Mac gear and while nice it was not my cup of tea. So no Mac gear suggestions please. I love how they look but that's about it imo. From everything I have read here and other places on the net I have come to the conclusion that simple is better. The less garbage in the signal path the better.

Erik Tracy

B&W802d wrote: »

Ok here it goes. I want to build a 2 channel system that will last a very long time. The only thing that will never change is the speakers. I will be using some B&W 802d. All the rest is up in the air. I have read and read till I cannot read anymore. You all have the gear experience and technical experience as well. I have 3 rooms I can use for the 2 channel system. One room has 30 ft. ceilings that slope with exposed wooden beams for support. The room itself is empty right now except for a Persian rug on the floor. The dimensions are 50'x30' (or pretty close). I was going to use this room for full size arcade games,pool table,and other stuff like that. I am thinking this may be the room I want to use though. I will need everything as I am starting from scratch. Oh, the budget, I want to try and stay under 40 grand if at all possible but if it goes over so be it. Let the games begin.

$40K? This should be fun! :biggrin:

What source components do you want?

Does your budget include racks, cables, room treatments, power conditioning, any/all accessories?

The $40K is just for the audio gear, right? Not the pool table, keg dispenser, neon beer signs, etc?

B&W802d

Erik Tracy wrote: »

$40K? This should be fun! :biggrin:

What source components do you want?

Does your budget include racks, cables, room treatments, power conditioning, any/all accessories?

The $40K is just for the audio gear, right? Not the pool table, keg dispenser, neon beer signs, etc?

The 40 grand is for audio anything. The speakers will be taken care of. I just need to order another pair. One pair is about to arrive any day now but they will be used for surrounds in my ht setup. I like the speakers so much that is what I want to stay with for my 2 channel setup as well. Budget is for everything, pre,amp,cd player,cables,treatments,rack,etc. I am in no hurry to rush this as I dont want to regret a purchase. I have done the buy,listen,box up and store,buy again route far to many times. I want this to be the end of buying audio gear,hopefully.

megasat16

Ok! You have a pretty big room for the 2 channel rig. But for sheer enjoyment, the 2 channel rig should be of clean and clutter free (i.e. less clutter, less reflection, less deadspot). So, don't use a game room with your 2 channel dedicated rig if you are going to be real serious about stereo music.

Gears...Gears...Gears...I think you really need to listen to them and pick what you like. There are premium brands, Mark Levinson, Pass, Krell, McIntosh, Esoteric, Accuphase, Luxman could fit well within your budget.

But then, there are MBL, Boulder, Goldmund, FM Acoustics, which are on the more expensive end but does not necessary sound better than the ones above.

One thing I like to remind is that Good Sound has nothing to do with the expense. You can have some Great Sounding system with a lot Lower Budget.

I treat my $100 vintage preamp with the same respect it deserves as my newer 12K preamp.

About Synergy, you SHOULD try listening to the manufacture matching line FIRST before jumping into the maze of trying all sorts of brands such as the Pass Amp with McIntosh Preamp and Krell CDP, etc. Most likely, it's my experience that the high end expensive brand name takes synergy seriously and they have matched their components to sound good.

Once again, the $$$ is not and SHOULD NOT be the deciding factor in the audio. Listen to more gears and stick to the gears your ears enjoy most.

cnh

50 x 30 x 30 feet. 45,000 cubic feet? I know; there's a sloping ceiling. And 40K for the system that you already have 12K in speakers for, the B&W (not my favorite speakers BTW). You must prefer a very dead on, neutral sound. So I'm guessing TUBES are out of the mix since those B&Ws would change quite a bit if they were 'warmed' up?

This budget is a big one. So I'm going to let the TECH boys take it. Those guys who could probably work alongside Pass, Curl, Levinson, on the chalkboard?

I will say that your one room is larger than some members entire living space.

Take it away boys! The only thing I would upgrade would be the speakers, since they're not my cup of tea.

cnh

B&W802d

megasat16 wrote: »

Ok! You have a pretty big room for the 2 channel rig. But for sheer enjoyment, the 2 channel rig should be of clean and clutter free (i.e. less clutter, less reflection, less deadspot). So, don't use a game room with your 2 channel dedicated rig if you are going to be real serious about stereo music.

Gears...Gears...Gears...I think you really need to listen to them and pick what you like. There are premium brands, Mark Levinson, Pass, Krell, McIntosh, Esoteric, Accuphase, Luxman could fit well within your budget.

But then, there are MBL, Boulder, Goldmund, FM Acoustics, which are on the more expensive end but does not necessary sound better than the ones above.

One thing I like to remind is that Good Sound has nothing to do with the expense. You can have some Great Sounding system with a lot Lower Budget.

I treat my $100 vintage preamp with the same respect it deserves as my newer 12K preamp.

About Synergy, you SHOULD try listening to the manufacture matching line FIRST before jumping into the maze of trying all sorts of brands. Most likely, it's my experience that the high end expensive brand name takes synergy seriously and they have matched their components to sound good.

The room would be for audio only. I have plenty of things to fill the room up from my extensive travels. I have things in storage I picked up 20 years ago while abroad. The last gear I listened to was a Nagra system while on business not to long ago. While VERY nice and could survive a nuclear blast I did not care for it. If I was looking for industrial,clinical, and modern it would have fit the bill but that's not me.

megasat16

I am more interested to learn about the things you stashed 20 yrs ago if they are audio gears. They could prove very useful for you.

Some Vintage Gears are really very good. They are build simple with good quality parts and solid Engineering POV.

I can't say anything about Nagra coz that brand is elusive to me before. I guess I could look for a demo in the future.

Oh, and don't forget a few CP favorite brand - Musical Fidelity and Ayre.

B&W802d

cnh wrote: »

50 x 30 x 30 feet. 45,000 cubic feet? I know; there's a sloping ceiling. And 40K for the system that you already have 12K in speakers for, the B&W (not my favorite speakers BTW). You must prefer a very dead on, neutral sound. So I'm guessing TUBES are out of the mix since those B&Ws would change quite a bit if they were 'warmed' up?

This budget is a big one. So I'm going to let the TECH boys take it. Those guys who could probably work alongside Pass, Curl, Levinson, on the chalkboard?

I will say that your one room is larger than some members entire living space.

Take it away boys! The only thing I would upgrade would be the speakers, since they're not my cup of tea.

cnh

No problem on the speakers. Different strokes for different folkes. I am not opposed to changing the sound a little in favor of either side of neutral. If a little brighter I can live with it. Just not the Krell type of bright. I tried that route as well. While there was detail everywhere I was losing the pleasure of long listening sessions. The room I have is large for sure but is no where near the largest. The other rooms will be for display purposes of the items I have picked up over the years.

I have a previous commitment this evening and I will need to pull away from this for now. I will be back on tomorrow to continue this. Thanks for the input so far and look forward to furthering this soon.

Erik Tracy

B&W802d wrote: »

The 40 grand is for audio anything. The speakers will be taken care of. I just need to order another pair. One pair is about to arrive any day now but they will be used for surrounds in my ht setup. I like the speakers so much that is what I want to stay with for my 2 channel setup as well. Budget is for everything, pre,amp,cd player,cables,treatments,rack,etc. I am in no hurry to rush this as I dont want to regret a purchase. I have done the buy,listen,box up and store,buy again route far to many times. I want this to be the end of buying audio gear,hopefully.

But what sources do you have now and possibly want to consider?
* Vinyl
* CD
* SACD
* Streaming/Internet?

Do you have an investment in a current medium?

Face

What Mac amps have you heard? Their newer amps sound much better than their vintage gear. Their sources and preamps are meh though.

Are you looking for a CDP, PC and DAC, etc...

IMO, the first thing to go would be the speakers, you can do a lot better for the money.

txcoastal1

These would be some of my fisrt pick for my wish list

Pre amp tube
http://www.caryaudio.com/products/classic/SLP05.html

Dac for digital lossless library
http://www.audiomirror.com/dac.html

Amps
http://www.passlabs.com/xa_5_series.htm

Turntable
http://vpiindustries.com/static.php?page=static101226-162406Turntable

Speakers
Sonus Faber Cremona Elipsa's

And room treatments

danz1906

Ayre KX-R pre-amp

Ayre MX-R Mono-Blocs

Ayre C-5xeMP Cd/Sacd player

Kubala Sosna Elation cables

[Deleted User]

B&W802d wrote: »

I want this to be the end of buying audio gear,hopefully.

LOL, wishful thinking but I don't believe it EVER ends ! :biggrin:

skipf

Joule Electra pre and monoblocks would be sweet.

tonyb

Ok, I'm confused again, go figure.
You want to build a 2 channel system, you already have the speakers, 802d's, why such a huge budget for gear ? If you add more speakers, then it's not 2 channel. Thats a big room for 2 channel and you may not get the sq you desire, given the spls needed to fill a room of such size and with all the stuff in it. I'm thinking big horns with big tube mono's, and 2 fast subs, in general. Before we get to specifics, clarify for us what it is your trying to do. 2 channel,4 channel. Also if you entertain the thought of putting up a room divider in that big room,it may help with the SQ. Also, if you want this to be the end of buying gear,which I doubt, you'll have to add some sort of computer based music system to this.

leroyjr1

tonyb wrote: »

Ok, I'm confused again, go figure.
You want to build a 2 channel system, you already have the speakers, 802d's, why such a huge budget for gear ? If you add more speakers, then it's not 2 channel. Thats a big room for 2 channel and you may not get the sq you desire, given the spls needed to fill a room of such size and with all the stuff in it. I'm thinking big horns with big tube mono's, and 2 fast subs, in general. Before we get to specifics, clarify for us what it is your trying to do. 2 channel,4 channel. Also if you entertain the thought of putting up a room divider in that big room,it may help with the SQ. Also, if you want this to be the end of buying gear,which I doubt, you'll have to add some sort of computer based music system to this.

I think he said he has a seperate HT room using a second pair of 802d's for surrounds. He wants to purchase a 3rd set to start a 2 channel setup.

vc69

Those 802d are pretty sweet cnh. If you haven't heard the "d's" you might want to give them a listen.

Mega is right about listening to the manufacturer matching line. In this case, I believe it is Classe' (Same parent company). I really liked the Classe' amps paired with the 802d's however those speakers really came alive when a McIntosh tube pre was introduced. I would highly recommend some really clean SS power and a sweet **** ARC or McIntosh preamp. Wadia Transport and a high end DAC for digital and spend the rest on a knocked out TT rig.

Gawd I wish I had some money, your budget is nearly a years income for me.

jm1

I have heard these speakers many times and like Classe' the best of all the lines the retailer had. I never liked them with any tube components connected. I would also look at Ayre and Simaudio components as well considering your budget.

For myself, I wouldn't place these speakers in such a large room for two channel listening. I would optimize a smaller room which the speakers are capable of pressurizing and include acoustical treatments (or hire someone) in the system budget.

B&W802d

Sorry I was not able to return the next day to further this discussion. I will be in and out for the next few weeks and getting anything done will be a challenge. I do have some amps on the way to try out and I will mention them later in the post.

Erik Tracy wrote: »

But what sources do you have now and possibly want to consider?
* Vinyl
* CD
* SACD
* Streaming/Internet?

Do you have an investment in a current medium?

The greatest collection is cd and sacd. I had vinyl but gave it all away years ago. While I do love vinyl I do not love the 20-30 minutes I took to get everything ready. I will stay with cd and sacd for my 2 channel system. Streaming and internet are already covered in my ht room.

Face wrote: »

What Mac amps have you heard? Their newer amps sound much better than their vintage gear. Their sources and preamps are meh though.

Are you looking for a CDP, PC and DAC, etc...

IMO, the first thing to go would be the speakers, you can do a lot better for the money.

If it's Mac I have probably tried it or at a minimum listened to it. Mac gear is good stuff but not what I care to buy. A little to polite. And when paired with my 802d I was missing that 'magic' I was looking for. I found that with Classe. I know Mac and Classe are very similar in sound but Classe has what I was looking for.
I need a pre,amp,cd player,room treatments,cables,and the list goes on and on. While there are other speakers that some may find better than what I currently have, I will not be changing the speakers. I have had some VERY exotic and expensive brands in my possession for demos and they all went back. I went through 20-30 different sets over the last few years. Not until I had the 802d for a little while did I find what I was looking for. I can sit down and listen for hours and hours with no regrets. I liked them so much I bought four of them for my ht. Yesterday I purchased two more for my 2 channel system and they will be here in about 6 weeks.

tonyb wrote: »

Ok, I'm confused again, go figure.
You want to build a 2 channel system, you already have the speakers, 802d's, why such a huge budget for gear ? If you add more speakers, then it's not 2 channel. Thats a big room for 2 channel and you may not get the sq you desire, given the spls needed to fill a room of such size and with all the stuff in it. I'm thinking big horns with big tube mono's, and 2 fast subs, in general. Before we get to specifics, clarify for us what it is your trying to do. 2 channel,4 channel. Also if you entertain the thought of putting up a room divider in that big room,it may help with the SQ. Also, if you want this to be the end of buying gear,which I doubt, you'll have to add some sort of computer based music system to this.

This is a 2 channel system only. As far as a budget goes it's not that much really. To some 40 grand is alot but to others it's a night out on the town with friends. I'm in the latter category. I have a dedicated HT room already. I can add dividers in the room no problem to make it more audio friendly. As far as subs go I already have two of those as well in my HT room. I may add a sub once I have my 2 channel system set up. The 802d have good bass already. I want to see what everything sounds like set up first before buying a sub. I know I will probably want one but want to try without first. Computer based music system is in the HT room.

Coming sometime next week are some Sim Audio MOON W-7M monos I am going to try out. Will give those a whirl and see where everything ends up. All I know is this is gonna be a blast once I have some REAL free time to invest in this. All I can do right now due to a commitment I made over the weekend is a little here and there. Thanks for all the input so far. I have looked at everything mentioned and dismissed nothing. I want to see it all.:biggrin:

doctor r

You should consider a VAC preamp and monoblocks. Call VAC and talk to Kevin Hayes, the owner and head designer. Amazing equipment that should be able to fill your room and make your speakers sing. It is tube equipment, but nothing like Mac....

Ricardo

B&W802d wrote: »

I have done the buy,listen,box up and store,buy again route far to many times. I want this to be the end of buying audio gear,hopefully.

Well, if you've done that many times, you know that there's hardly a chance you will like what anyone else can recommend. There's the synergy between all the pieces (and the room), and then there's those things called ears...that depending on which head they are on, they like different things.

If I had 40K for that project, I would take 15k to buy/rotate used gear until I find what I like. Use the remaining 25k for a nice bike.

cnh

I have to agree with Ricardo...minus the bike (don't ride them so I'd have to substitute something else).

What I don't 'fully' understand is, if you run with a crowd that can spend 40K on a night of entertainment, why would you come to Club Polk for advice?

You obviously have the resources to hire a High End Audio Store 'consultant' who would be more than happy to help you spend 40K or 80K for that matter. And for that kind of money..they'd probably let you demo most of what they had for a while? If they were assured of a sale?

Something does not 'add' up here? Excuse me, if I'm wrong.

cnh

Face

You'll need a pair of these for a room that size.

http://home.jlaudio.com/products_subs.php?prod_id=375

cnh

I figured I might as well post a little and stop being a 'lightman' and hiding outside everyones window. B&W802d

lightman1 perhaps? Russ?

cnh

Loud & Clear

You could buy a lot of Emotiva gear with 40k. ;>}

Face

Loud & Clear wrote: »

You could buy out Emotiva with 40k. ;>}

Fixed.

B&W802d

Ricardo wrote: »

Well, if you've done that many times, you know that there's hardly a chance you will like what anyone else can recommend.

I like all kinds of gear. Just because it may not make it into the reference system does not mean I wont buy it just because. I have tons of gear not in use that I buy just because I can.

cnh wrote: »

What I don't 'fully' understand is, if you run with a crowd that can spend 40K on a night of entertainment, why would you come to Club Polk for advice?

You obviously have the resources to hire a High End Audio Store 'consultant' who would be more than happy to help you spend 40K or 80K for that matter. And for that kind of money..they'd probably let you demo most of what they had for a while? If they were assured of a sale?

Something does not 'add' up here? Excuse me, if I'm wrong.

cnh

Like I mentioned when I actually decided to 'talk' is that I have been coming here for years and feel like I know you all personally even though I have never spoken to any of you. I come here because I like the knowledge base and interaction you all have. Sure I can get advice from other places but I like here best. Just because I can afford to buy most high end audio stores does not mean anything. Money is just money. Who gives a shi& about it. I spend itlike there is no tomorrow because I can. I cannot take it with me. I use to be stingy with it but now I figure, You only live once right? I like doing things myself. Just because I can afford nice stuff does not mean I like people kissing my ****. I don't have to get a salesman to help me with stuff. I go straight to the owner. How do you think I am getting the Sim Audio monos soon. I have the means to demo most anything, having the resources I do I can pretty much do whatever I want whenever I want. And you are mistaken. I do mean all this in a humble way. Please do not think I am on a high horse or something. I just have money. I put my pants on like everyone else.

B&W802d

Now if we can move on from the money crap and focus on audio that would be great. The topic at hand is building a 2 channel system. Thanks.:biggrin:

megasat16

Hello B&W802D,

I like your style and courage. Now about Money, Can I borrow some? You seem to have plenty and I seem to broke. :biggrin:

Ricardo

Ricardo wrote: »

Well, if you've done that many times, you know that there's hardly a chance you will like what anyone else can recommend. There's the synergy between all the pieces (and the room), and then there's those things called ears...that depending on which head they are on, they like different things.

B&W802d wrote: »

I like all kinds of gear. Just because it may not make it into the reference system does not mean I wont buy it just because. I have tons of gear not in use that I buy just because I can.

I don't understand why you quoted me before your post. I do not see the relationship...maybe I am missing something.