Tweeters or Capacitors First?

TennMan

I've not had my 10Bs long. I've been reading a lot about upgrading from the sl2000 tweeter to the RDO-194 and upgrading the crossovers with new capacitors and resistors.

I'm not quite ready to do either one right now. I want to get fully acquainted with the 10Bs current sound before I start changing anything but I do intend to do upgrades in the future. When I upgrade the 10s I want to do it in a logical step by step manner so I can evaluate each change before proceeding to the next step. What should be my first step? The tweeters or the xo upgrade? Or maybe a new receiver/amp?

Your comments are appreciated.

Schurkey

"I" would fix what I had before buying more equipment.

Therefore, repair/upgrade the crossovers BEFORE buying new tweeters, buy new tweeters BEFORE buying another amp/receiver.

ben62670

Schurkey wrote: »

"I" would fix what I had before buying more equipment.

Therefore, repair/upgrade the crossovers BEFORE buying new tweeters, buy new tweeters BEFORE buying another amp/receiver.

I kinda agree if he can solder. Some people actually prefer the 2000's over the RDO's IF the 2000's are in good shape. If he finds the SL2000's fatiguing sounded I would say the tweeters first.

TennMan

Is there a way to test the 2000s to see if they are working properly and in good shape?

So far I have not found the 2000s harsh as some have described. That could change as it get more accustomed to listing to my 10s. It's possible the 2000s might be better suited to my 60 year old ears than the 194s. I'm sure I have lost ability the ability to hear some of the higher frequencies. Age might make a difference in tweeter preference

I read in one thread here on the forum that upgrading the crossovers can bring out the harshness in the 2000s that wouldn't otherwise be heard with the old caps. Is that true?

ben62670

They are fine if they don't sound harsh to you. Do the XO first if you can solder. If you can't I do a lot of XO's for Polk members. The XO upgrade will not make them harsh. Also if you take the tweeters out you can measure them with an ohm meter. If they read real close to each other in ohms and they sound good they are fine.
Ben

TennMan

Thanks for the info. I can solder as long as there is room to work. I have large hands and I'm not as steady as I once was. There are a lot of choices in caps and I know the sky is the limit on what you can spend. What is your recommendation for caps at a reasonable price that are good quality?

Conradicles

Dayton

inspiredsports

I would also weigh in that performing the crossover upgrade first makes the most logical sense. You may end up liking the stock tweeters, but it's almost a certainty the crossover cap values have drifted after all these years.

Sonicaps and Mills Resistors get my vote, and I would replace binding posts and bypass polyswitches and/or any fuses if they exist in the circuitry.

TennMan

Why the binding posts? Are they a poor design or is there another reason. Which binding post do you recommend?

Thanks for all the comments. I appreciate it.

quadzilla

inspiredsports wrote: »

I would also weigh in that performing the crossover upgrade first makes the most logical sense. You may end up liking the stock tweeters, but it's almost a certainty the crossover cap values have drifted after all these years.

Sonicaps and Mills Resistors get my vote, and I would replace binding posts and bypass polyswitches and/or any fuses if they exist in the circuitry.

This is the route I would go as well. You won't have any idea of what the speaker is capable of until you get those old electrolytics out of the xover.

TennMan

So far what you guys are saying makes a lot of sense. Doing otherwise would be like trying to hot rod and old car with a worn engine.

heiney9

I have found that doing the x-overs first results in the sl2000 being even more unpleasant, so I would do tweets then x-over. Reason being that the worn out parts actually make the sl2000 sound a little less unpleasant.

H9

TennMan

What should the tolerance of the caps be. 1% or is 5% good enough for the 10s?

Looks like caps are sold as 33uf instead of the 34uf the schmatic calls for. Will 33uf work? Is a 1uf needed as well?

heiney9

33uF is well within tolerance and I'd go 5% to keep costs reasonable. The originals are most likely 10-20%.

H9

quadzilla

TennMan wrote: »

Why the binding posts? Are they a poor design or is there another reason. Which binding post do you recommend?

Thanks for all the comments. I appreciate it.

It's not a "poor" design, but there are much better binding posts out there. Anything that's pure copper instead of the brass that nearly everyone uses will be a large improvement.

ben62670

5% is fine. 33uf is fine also. I would use the 1uf if it is in there. It's plenty cheap enough. I am asuming you are getting the Dayton's from Partsexpress? They are more forgiving than the Solen's or Sonicaps with the SL2000 tweeters. Use the Mills resistor while you are in there.
Have fun, and then enjoy.

Outfitter03

The non-brass posts are not cheap. Here are three alternatives:

http://www.soniccraft.com/products/connections/bindingpost/vampire_bphexcb.htm

http://www.soniccraft.com/products/connections/bindingpost/cardas_ccbp.htm

http://www.soniccraft.com/products/connections/bindingpost/cardas_ccgr.htm

heiney9

Forget the 1uF it's not necessary.

H9

ben62670

The 1uf actually affects the slope at the top end. It is not really used so much as a bypass in that position. I would keep it with the SL2000's, and maybe ditch it with the RDO's.

TennMan

The Dayton's were the first I have looked at. Yes, I was looking at Parts Express. They seem to be reasonably priced. I intend to continue looking at the others. I'm new to upgrading speakers and didn't realize the binding post would be so expensive. Are they really worth the extra cost?

Since I might end up staying with the sl2000 tweeters I will probably go for the 1uf to go with the 33uf. does that complicate the installation?

heiney9

ben62670 wrote: »

The 1uf actually affects the slope at the top end. It is not really used so much as a bypass in that position. I would keep it with the SL2000's, and maybe ditch it with the RDO's.

If you can hear the difference then you get a cookie. That's within less than 3% tolerance. Most caps of identical value from the same batch can vary that much. Unless you are buying ultra expensive caps for critical areas.

H9

heiney9

TennMan wrote: »

Since I might end up staying with the sl2000 tweeters I will probably go for the 1uf to go with the 33uf. does that complicate the installation?

Yes...............it is complicating things. If you are going to "piggyback" caps (which is what you are doing when using more than one cap value) then they should be done as close to the same value as possible. Meaning (2) 17uF should be used to get the sum of 34uF.

Really splitting hairs here and making it much more difficult and expensive than it needs to be.

Go with the 33uF like most have and move on.

H9

TennMan

heiney9 wrote: »

If you can hear the difference then you get a cookie. That's within less than 3% tolerance. Most caps of identical value from the same batch can vary that much.

H9

Good point.

TennMan

While on the subject of improvements... I was thinking I might need to address the seals/gaskets for the drivers while I'm into it. Are gaskets available for the drivers in the 10s? If not what should I do to ensure a good tight seal?

I've read that no air leakage is important for good bass response and I can see why with the design of the cabinet with the passive radiator.

ben62670

Oops. My bad. I thought he was referring to the 1uf cap being parallel with the tweeter cap, and not the woofer cap. 33uf on its own is perfectly fine. I wish we could still edit!

heiney9

ben62670 wrote: »

Oops. My bad. I thought he was referring to the 1uf cap being parallel with the tweeter cap, and not the woofer cap. 33uf on its own is perfectly fine. I wish we could still edit!

It's OK ben, I was waiting for you to come to your senses

H9

TennMan

I wonder why Parts Express carries the 2.5 Mills resistor but not the 2.7? They only have 2.7 in the Dayton brand.

ben62670

They have a limited number of values there.

TennMan

Where is the best place to get them?

Thanks for all the help!

ben62670

Madisound.com

TennMan

Thanks. I'll check them out.