Wow. LSi9 Crossover mod... LOL

2

Comments

  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,749
    edited February 2011
    I think we are going externally on this one and I have devised a plan of cost effectiveness and where Lou will have to do no work what-so-ever

    HA!
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • JimAckley
    JimAckley Posts: 1,138
    edited February 2011
    ohskigod wrote: »
    LOLZ!!!!! that thing is huge.

    That's what she said!
    - Computer Rig -
    YAΘIN MS-20L, polkaudio RT5

    - Main Rig -
    Pioneer SC-37, Overnight Sensations, Samsung 52" LCD

    - Currently In Progress -
    Curt Campbell's Uluwatu LCR, LMS Ultra Gjallarhorn, JBL W15GTi stereo subs, 2.1 entertainment system for the gf
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,593
    edited February 2011
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    I have devised a plan where Lou will have to do no work what-so-ever

    Thats also what she said :wink:

    JK:eek:
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited February 2011
    Give me a break mega. I said please don't post your opinions on gear you have not heard. This statement is intended for people in general. You post
    You don't need to tell anyone here what to post and what not to post unless you've become the top Dog in the show.
    So you are disagreeing with my statement that people shouldn't post opinions on gear they never heard? The RTA thing? Seriously? Who cares what the numbers say. Are you in the camp that doesn't believe what your ears like, but would rather believe what the numbers tell you sounds best? I am done here. If you feel the need to carry on please PM me. If you want you can call too.
    Later
    Ben
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited February 2011
    ben62670 wrote: »
    Give me a break mega. I said please don't post your opinions on gear you have not heard. This statement is intended for people in general. You post So you are disagreeing with my statement that people shouldn't post opinions on gear they never heard? The RTA thing? Seriously? Who cares what the numbers say. Are you in the camp that doesn't believe what your ears like, but would rather believe what the numbers tell you sounds best? I am done here. If you feel the need to carry on please PM me. If you want you can call too.
    Later
    Ben


    Well Ben,

    I have given you a lot of leg rooms b4 and now. You quoted my post and asked please don't post your opinions unless you've heard one.

    I wasn't even posting a review or any sort.

    So, unless you are 3 yrs old, I would assume you meant me.

    I also hope you are not in the camp that whatever I do, it must sound good coz the measurements are for the guys without the ears.

    I don't have your number to call but are you saying we should meet up in person?

    I also see no reason to use PM for such trivial matters.

    But you are welcome to give me a shout if you are coming to Cali anytime.

    Anyway, back to the regularly scheduled program about the LSi9 mod. I don't want to sway this thread anymore than it already has.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • JimAckley
    JimAckley Posts: 1,138
    edited February 2011
    I wanna see how you set up the external. I was making a part list for all of my speakers last night so I won't have to keep staring @ diagrams to order, and some of these speakers (LSi25s in particular) have a lot of parts. I don't know how well 6 capacitors will fit inside of some of these, not to mention new resistors and possibly inductors. I was thinking of making a box with new boards altogether, and make new plates to install in place of the cups. That would let me throw the cups back in and sell them someday, if for whatever odd reason I chose to do so.
    - Computer Rig -
    YAΘIN MS-20L, polkaudio RT5

    - Main Rig -
    Pioneer SC-37, Overnight Sensations, Samsung 52" LCD

    - Currently In Progress -
    Curt Campbell's Uluwatu LCR, LMS Ultra Gjallarhorn, JBL W15GTi stereo subs, 2.1 entertainment system for the gf
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • ohskigod
    ohskigod Posts: 6,502
    edited February 2011
    just gave Trey the greenlight to enact his plan to go external.....some more sheckels sure, but it REALLY makes it easy on my end, and it comes out to not much more than my original thought of cost going the external route myself.

    pretty much a no brainer.

    embrolied in the internal volume debate between Ben and Mega. my .02 is if it did go internal and volume was effected, you could probably chick more fill in to compenstate......the LSi9's had fill in it when i pulled them apart. I was a little surprised at that as I've never seen fill in a ported cabinet before. I thought fill added to a sealed cabinet made it act like it had a larger internal volume.

    could be wrong of course.

    either way I just like the external route for the ease of access god forbid. like I said, the ease if installation when i get these back will make the extra money so worth it.
    Living Room 2 Channel -
    Schiit SYS Passive Pre. Jolida CD player. Songbird streamer. California Audio Labs Sigma II DAC, DIY 300as1/a1 Ice modules Class D amp. LSi15 with MM842 woofer upgrade, Nordost Blue Heaven and Unity interconnects.

    Upstairs 2 Channel Rig -
    Prometheus Ref. TVC passive pre, SAE A-205 Amp, Wiim pro streamer and Topping E50 DAC, California Audio Labs DX1 CD player, Von Schweikert VR3.5 speakers.

    Studio Rig - Scarlett 18i20(Gen3) DAW, Mac Mini, Aiyma A07 Max (BridgedX2), Totem Mites
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited February 2011
    As someone who knows very 'little' about this kind of mod? Could you explain why the caps on such a mod aren't just kept the same size and merely upgraded to better ones of the SAME kind. Or why it is necessary to increase the Size of the caps so much?

    Is it because the actual configuration and crossover points are being 'radically' altered and so it's not just a question of better caps and components but a different 'design' in there.

    Bear with me, I'm not an solid state Tech guy?

    Thanks!

    To Lou. Are those the LSI-9s you use as surrounds in the HT or another set that you plan on using as a two channel? Just curious?

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,749
    edited February 2011
    Well got one done and cranking free air...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited February 2011
    If you're gonna go external, you may as well replace the 1.2mH(.3ohm DCR) inductor.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,749
    edited February 2011
    Is that the high frequency air core? If so... no way - all those caps stacked on it, talk about a pita! ;)
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited February 2011
    ohskigod wrote: »

    embrolied in the internal volume debate between Ben and Mega. my .02 is if it did go internal and volume was effected, you could probably chick more fill in to compenstate......the LSi9's had fill in it when i pulled them apart. I was a little surprised at that as I've never seen fill in a ported cabinet before. I thought fill added to a sealed cabinet made it act like it had a larger internal volume.

    It's interesting observation about the fill in the LSi9. It may be one of the polk tweaks done to the LSi9 to reduce the port noise or tightened the bass.

    Hard to know why for sure but it's nice to know.
    cnh wrote: »
    As someone who knows very 'little' about this kind of mod? Could you explain why the caps on such a mod aren't just kept the same size and merely upgraded to better ones of the SAME kind. Or why it is necessary to increase the Size of the caps so much?

    Is it because the actual configuration and crossover points are being 'radically' altered and so it's not just a question of better caps and components but a different 'design' in there.


    cnh

    To answer in the shortest possible way that makes sense, all the caps are not created the same even if they have the same values (such as capacitance and voltage ratings). The size of the caps depends on the type, materials, construction technique, and the manufacturers, etc.

    You will see that the capacitors are replaced with almost same or identical values in the speakers mod in order not to change the driver crossover points from the original design. But the better caps (different or same type as the original ones) are generally larger in size than the stock caps even if it's not always the case.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited February 2011
    Thanks Mega...16. That's an answer even I can follow! Rarefied electronics discussions sometimes escape me because I was the guy who was asleep in Shop Class (wood, printing, electrical, etc.). Wish I hadn't slacked off there...? But then again, I was stellar in all my other courses. I guess I just didn't realize that this practical knowledge, hands on experience, would be of 'any' use to me in my future career. (And to be honest--it wasn't). But as a hobbyist, I'm now experiencing a bit of remorse.

    Nothing that a few books probably wouldn't solve if I were willing to give this stuff more of my 'time'? Always been a very quick 'study'! The problem is, that the quantity of things that I have to process, read and review in my field is DAUNTING and continuous so it's not going to be easy to deal with this! So I guess I'll keep reading on this site and elsewhere for now!

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited February 2011
    cnh,

    You are welcome! I am sure you can catch up with all of these with a few class and some hands on experience. No need to feel remorse coz you can always learn or re-learn again.

    It's just that one need to find time to do it all over again. Besides, what I do now is very little to do with what I know or learnt anyway. Such is a mystery or life. Oh well, back to the LSi9 mod. :smile:
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • JimAckley
    JimAckley Posts: 1,138
    edited February 2011
    cnh wrote: »
    As someone who knows very 'little' about this kind of mod? Could you explain why the caps on such a mod aren't just kept the same size and merely upgraded to better ones of the SAME kind. Or why it is necessary to increase the Size of the caps so much?

    Is it because the actual configuration and crossover points are being 'radically' altered and so it's not just a question of better caps and components but a different 'design' in there.

    Bear with me, I'm not an solid state Tech guy?

    Thanks!

    To Lou. Are those the LSI-9s you use as surrounds in the HT or another set that you plan on using as a two channel? Just curious?

    cnh

    It's not about "larger" caps, per se. It's just that high quality caps are larger in size. So long as the values do not change, your crossover points shouldn't either. The quality of sound, however, should increase by a good amount.
    - Computer Rig -
    YAΘIN MS-20L, polkaudio RT5

    - Main Rig -
    Pioneer SC-37, Overnight Sensations, Samsung 52" LCD

    - Currently In Progress -
    Curt Campbell's Uluwatu LCR, LMS Ultra Gjallarhorn, JBL W15GTi stereo subs, 2.1 entertainment system for the gf
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • MC208
    MC208 Posts: 5
    edited February 2011
    Can someone PM or email me the lsi9 & lsi15 schematics? I'm really paranoid about starting this mod without a reference in case of catastrophic error. Going to use Sonicap and Dayton caps which should easily fit inside both.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • JimAckley
    JimAckley Posts: 1,138
    edited February 2011
    bah, the only two schematics I don't have...
    - Computer Rig -
    YAΘIN MS-20L, polkaudio RT5

    - Main Rig -
    Pioneer SC-37, Overnight Sensations, Samsung 52" LCD

    - Currently In Progress -
    Curt Campbell's Uluwatu LCR, LMS Ultra Gjallarhorn, JBL W15GTi stereo subs, 2.1 entertainment system for the gf
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,749
    edited February 2011
    LSi9

    18uf x 2
    12 uf
    1 uf
    1 ohm resistor
    3 ohm resistor
    260uf capacitor I believe
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,654
    edited February 2011
    Those resistors are 5 watt stock, yes? Bump them up to 12 watt Mills.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • ohskigod
    ohskigod Posts: 6,502
    edited February 2011
    cnh wrote: »

    To Lou. Are those the LSI-9s you use as surrounds in the HT or another set that you plan on using as a two channel? Just curious?

    cnh


    these are a newer set of Cherry LSi9's (newer finish) that I plan to use in 2 channel. Curious as to wether I will like them better than my AR9's....they just fit so much better in my music room, the AR9's are just like to upright coffins in the room.
    Living Room 2 Channel -
    Schiit SYS Passive Pre. Jolida CD player. Songbird streamer. California Audio Labs Sigma II DAC, DIY 300as1/a1 Ice modules Class D amp. LSi15 with MM842 woofer upgrade, Nordost Blue Heaven and Unity interconnects.

    Upstairs 2 Channel Rig -
    Prometheus Ref. TVC passive pre, SAE A-205 Amp, Wiim pro streamer and Topping E50 DAC, California Audio Labs DX1 CD player, Von Schweikert VR3.5 speakers.

    Studio Rig - Scarlett 18i20(Gen3) DAW, Mac Mini, Aiyma A07 Max (BridgedX2), Totem Mites
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,749
    edited February 2011
    Ext pics
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,749
    edited February 2011
    These turned out differently - the ones with the wires coming out of the top... those were the first ones I did, I mounted the caps completely differently which allowed more room below on the second ones. To late to change it now.

    I can definitely knock out LSi9 crossovers though. No doubt now that I have done two.

    Woo Hoo
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited February 2011
    ohskigod wrote: »
    ....the LSi9's had fill in it when i pulled them apart. I was a little surprised at that as I've never seen fill in a ported cabinet before. I thought fill added to a sealed cabinet made it act like it had a larger internal volume.

    Lou, I pulled one of my LSi9 XO out last night and strange enough, I didn't see any solid fill inside my LSi9. I only saw the poly fill in mine. What kind of fill did you see inside the cabinet and where is it located inside the cabinet?


    Trey, good work and looks neat! I think you should also get the resistors and the inductors replaced for Lou though.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,749
    edited February 2011
    Resistors are replaced...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,749
    edited February 2011
    Polyfill is normal practice for ported speakers...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • ohskigod
    ohskigod Posts: 6,502
    edited February 2011
    polyfill, no solid fill.

    Trey, those things look off the chain son!!!!!!
    Living Room 2 Channel -
    Schiit SYS Passive Pre. Jolida CD player. Songbird streamer. California Audio Labs Sigma II DAC, DIY 300as1/a1 Ice modules Class D amp. LSi15 with MM842 woofer upgrade, Nordost Blue Heaven and Unity interconnects.

    Upstairs 2 Channel Rig -
    Prometheus Ref. TVC passive pre, SAE A-205 Amp, Wiim pro streamer and Topping E50 DAC, California Audio Labs DX1 CD player, Von Schweikert VR3.5 speakers.

    Studio Rig - Scarlett 18i20(Gen3) DAW, Mac Mini, Aiyma A07 Max (BridgedX2), Totem Mites
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cokewithvanilla
    cokewithvanilla Posts: 1,777
    edited February 2011
    So...... how do they sound?!?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,749
    edited February 2011
    Well...

    Considering I am using a Definitive tweeter, a definitive woofer and a POS Aurisound woofer in open air...

    There is only one way to describe it, lifeless, brittle, midrangey, and bassless

    Other than that - they seem to be stable and ready to rock
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,148
    edited February 2011
    Hehe...
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited February 2011
    I love the boxes!
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter