How high is too high for rear surrounds?

stangjason
stangjason Posts: 341
edited February 2011 in Speakers
I'm contemplating mounting my FXi3's on speaker mounts about 7ft above the listeners heads. Is this too high? If I point them down will it make my surrounds come from above instead of behind as they should?

They will be lined up just wider than my front surrounds which are just under 8ft apart from each other and angeld in towards the center of the room/listener.
Pioneer vsx-1120k, B&K Sonata series video-5 amplifier, Polk Rti8, Fxi3, Csi5, and HSU VTF-1
Post edited by stangjason on

Comments

  • blueboxer
    blueboxer Posts: 621
    edited February 2011
    I have mine about four feet above my listening position (i.e. head level while sitting) and find it to be just about right. I think ideally I would have placed them about three feet above.
  • Monster Jam
    Monster Jam Posts: 919
    edited February 2011
    I think you'll be fine. Every surround sound speaker placement in the theaters here in Vegas have them 15 feet or higher. In the IMAX room, they are WAY higher than 15 feet. Shockingly, there are only 2 surround speakers in the IMAX setup: one in each rear corner.
    Do you hear that buzzing noise? :confused:
  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited February 2011
    It probably also depends on the distance from your seating position. In other words, you wouldn't want them 7' above your head if the wall (or whatever) they're mounted on is only a foot or two behind you. So I say, the farther behind you, the better - within reason.
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 12,769
    edited February 2011
    Keep them low and close as possible...but if your dynamics are not there you can always adjust the levels of each speaker once you run your MCACC to better your listening enjoyment....run your MCACC then right down your defaults...select your favorite movies and/or music then start to play and adjust your speakers accordingly till you find your sweet spots...this may take several listenings

    good luck
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
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  • stangjason
    stangjason Posts: 341
    edited February 2011
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Keep them low and close as possible...but if your dynamics are not there you can always adjust the levels of each speaker once you run your MCACC to better your listening enjoyment....run your MCACC then right down your defaults...select your favorite movies and/or music then start to play and adjust your speakers accordingly till you find your sweet spots...this may take several listenings

    good luck

    I do have them closer and on stands but I feel like they are a bit too low where furniture and other items are blocking their sound. The tweeters are about 44 inches form the ground while on the stands. Tweaters from the fronts are about 38 inches off the ground and the seated position on the couch is about 36-40 inches depending on how upright one sits.
    Pioneer vsx-1120k, B&K Sonata series video-5 amplifier, Polk Rti8, Fxi3, Csi5, and HSU VTF-1
  • Geoff4rfc
    Geoff4rfc Posts: 1,824
    edited February 2011
    blueboxer wrote: »
    I have mine about four feet above my listening position (i.e. head level while sitting) and find it to be just about right. I think ideally I would have placed them about three feet above.

    According to this statement, your "listening position" would be while you're laying down, i.e. four feet below head level while seated. Is that about right????:biggrin:
    When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only BatmanHT Source: Panasonic UB9000 - Display: LG OLED 65 8BPre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-32CHEmotiva: ERC 3 connected/w XLR'sSpeakersPolkAudio Mains: LSiM707, C: 706, S: 702F/X, RS: RTiA9, WS: RTiA9EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 12,769
    edited February 2011
    Geoff4rfc wrote: »
    According to this statement, your "listening position" would be while you're laying down, i.e. four feet below head level while seated. Is that about right????:biggrin:

    OK OK...But I have theater seating:rolleyes:
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 12,769
    edited February 2011
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Keep them low and close as possible

    good luck

    I did mean ear level
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • Geoff4rfc
    Geoff4rfc Posts: 1,824
    edited February 2011
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    I did mean ear level

    Of course, that makes since, but what is bluboxer saying?????????
    When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only BatmanHT Source: Panasonic UB9000 - Display: LG OLED 65 8BPre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-32CHEmotiva: ERC 3 connected/w XLR'sSpeakersPolkAudio Mains: LSiM707, C: 706, S: 702F/X, RS: RTiA9, WS: RTiA9EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is
  • PSOVLSK
    PSOVLSK Posts: 4,757
    edited February 2011
    Geoff4rfc wrote: »
    Of course, that makes since, but what is bluboxer saying?????????

    I'm thinking his surrounds are about 7' off the ground since they are "four feet above (his) listening position (i.e. head level while sitting)."
    Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited February 2011
    stangjason wrote: »
    I do have them closer and on stands but I feel like they are a bit too low where furniture and other items are blocking their sound. The tweeters are about 44 inches form the ground while on the stands. Tweaters from the fronts are about 38 inches off the ground and the seated position on the couch is about 36-40 inches depending on how upright one sits.

    Here: http://www.polkaudio.com/education/showanswer.php?question_num=78

    Polk suggests that 6 to 7 feet off the floor is "normal." So it sounds like your problem is that stands only go so high, and your wall/ceiling mount options are in the 9 to 11 foot range, due to a high ceiling and an open floor plan. That's a tough one! Pics?
  • Knucklehead
    Knucklehead Posts: 3,602
    edited February 2011
    Mine are about 1 foot above ear level. Sounds great.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,656
    edited February 2011
    You should mount your surround speakers off to the sides of the seating location from 90 to max 120 deg . The height should be 72 inches to the tweeter center. This is the best location for surround , if you must vary from this then performance you will sacrifice.

    What are front surrounds?
    OK if you are running stadium seating in your theater and have multiple rows of seating , you can measure your 72 inches off the platform from each row. This is what I do when I have 2 or 3 rows of seating. Each row gets it's own surround speakers. This makes a very full and even surround experience at each row of seating.
    I use direct firing speakers as Bi polars don't work in this setup as they fire at each other and cause canceling.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited February 2011
    mantis wrote: »
    You should mount your surround speakers off to the sides of the seating location from 90 to max 120 deg . The height should be 72 inches to the tweeter center. This is the best location for surround , if you must vary from this then performance you will sacrifice.

    72" is a very precise measurement, but it's meaningless without a measurement of the distance of the speakers from the listener. That's pretty much what I was getting at when I wrote this:
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    It probably also depends on the distance from your seating position. In other words, you wouldn't want them 7' above your head if the wall (or whatever) they're mounted on is only a foot or two behind you. So I say, the farther behind you, the better - within reason.
  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited February 2011
    Here's a diagram to illustrate what I'm talking about.

    A=7'
    B=10'

    So, it's hard to say what a specific height should be without knowing the distance. I would suggest that the speakers could be positioned anywhere along the line, within reason - not so far away that they can't be heard, and not so close so as to be blaring in your ear.
  • stangjason
    stangjason Posts: 341
    edited February 2011
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    Here: http://www.polkaudio.com/education/showanswer.php?question_num=78

    Polk suggests that 6 to 7 feet off the floor is "normal." So it sounds like your problem is that stands only go so high, and your wall/ceiling mount options are in the 9 to 11 foot range, due to a high ceiling and an open floor plan. That's a tough one! Pics?

    No our ceiling isn't a high ceiling. I measured and 7ft is the minimum height I could mount the speakers because of pictures. Yeah my room is an open floor plan and I'm limited to mounting the speakers about 5 ft behind the listener at about a 45 (135) degree angle which brings the speaker distance from center to about 8ft if my memory serves me right. Since it's an open floor plan I have only a sliver of wall to mount my left rear speaker and a whole wall and even a side wall to mount my right rear speaker.
    Pioneer vsx-1120k, B&K Sonata series video-5 amplifier, Polk Rti8, Fxi3, Csi5, and HSU VTF-1
  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited February 2011
    Mine are at 6ft from the floor, about 6 ft apart mounted via the keyholes. I put the nails in to the studs so that they are stable. They sound great and are at the perfect height
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited February 2011
    stangjason wrote: »
    No our ceiling isn't a high ceiling. I measured and 7ft is the minimum height I could mount the speakers because of pictures. Yeah my room is an open floor plan and I'm limited to mounting the speakers about 5 ft behind the listener at about a 45 (135) degree angle which brings the speaker distance from center to about 8ft if my memory serves me right. Since it's an open floor plan I have only a sliver of wall to mount my left rear speaker and a whole wall and even a side wall to mount my right rear speaker.

    So, is it 7' above the listener (~10' from floor) or 7' from the floor? If it's 7' from the floor, I say you're fine - go for it. No need to tilt them down either, IMO.
  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited February 2011
    THIS, for example, would be considered TOO HIGH:

    MLSurrounds2.jpg

    MLSurrounds.jpg
    TNRabbit
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited February 2011
    TNRabbit wrote: »
    THIS, for example, would be considered TOO HIGH:

    MLSurrounds2.jpg

    MLSurrounds.jpg

    I'm scared just looking at the pics. :eek:

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
  • stangjason
    stangjason Posts: 341
    edited February 2011
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    Here: http://www.polkaudio.com/education/showanswer.php?question_num=78

    Polk suggests that 6 to 7 feet off the floor is "normal." So it sounds like your problem is that stands only go so high, and your wall/ceiling mount options are in the 9 to 11 foot range, due to a high ceiling and an open floor plan. That's a tough one! Pics?

    There are some pics in this post. Notice the pictures in the their frames? I would place my right surround above it. I would place the left surround on the slim piece of wall that sections off the entry way and kitchen and that slim section of wall sits further back than the other wall by about 6 inches so I figure I may need to compensate by placing the right surround further away from the listening position.
    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112428
    Pioneer vsx-1120k, B&K Sonata series video-5 amplifier, Polk Rti8, Fxi3, Csi5, and HSU VTF-1
  • jhw59
    jhw59 Posts: 348
    edited February 2011
    I have a drywall ceiling so purchased surrounds that installed into it. Sounds great and makes my spouse very happy...well, she doesn't like the paradigms R and L channel but so far, I'm winning that one.
  • blueboxer
    blueboxer Posts: 621
    edited February 2011
    Geoff4rfc wrote: »
    Of course, that makes since, but what is bluboxer saying?????????
    PSOVLSK wrote: »
    I'm thinking his surrounds are about 7' off the ground since they are "four feet above (his) listening position (i.e. head level while sitting)."

    I am hoping you were able to figure out what others were easily able to. lol
  • Glowrdr
    Glowrdr Posts: 1,104
    edited February 2011
    So... if I were to hang my M70's from the ceiling above my head - what gauge wire do you think I should use? Is 24ga going overboard? lol

    I wonder if someone actually did that, or if that was staged for shock and awe purposes?
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,656
    edited February 2011
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    72" is a very precise measurement, but it's meaningless without a measurement of the distance of the speakers from the listener. That's pretty much what I was getting at when I wrote this:

    Meaningless? It's cool dude your on your own.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • blueboxer
    blueboxer Posts: 621
    edited February 2011
    mantis wrote: »
    You should mount your surround speakers off to the sides of the seating location from 90 to max 120 deg . The height should be 72 inches to the tweeter center. This is the best location for surround , if you must vary from this then performance you will sacrifice.

    I think I am off by about a foot, is the diminished performance that much at that distance? Redoing my dry wall is a pain, but if a foot is that big of a deal I would consider doing it again, or then again I could just by some Mythos 10's and that would make up the difference. lol
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,656
    edited February 2011
    blueboxer wrote: »
    I think I am off by about a foot, is the diminished performance that much at that distance? Redoing my dry wall is a pain, but if a foot is that big of a deal I would consider doing it again, or then again I could just by some Mythos 10's and that would make up the difference. lol

    Which way are you off by a foot? I'd rather be slightly higher then lower. The Mythos 10's rule for surrounds , they are killer.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited February 2011
    mantis wrote: »
    Meaningless? It's cool dude your on your own.

    My point is that a given height, lacking any other reference point, has no real context. It's a point in space. Some people have few options for placement, so they have to work with what they've got. Others, such as with the HT systems you install, have rooms that are often built around "ideal" placements, so it's easy to state a given height. Would 72" be ok if they were mounted 2-3 feet away from listening position? How about 10'? 15'? It's all relative, I think.

    Generally, though, I think you and I are on the same page - it seems we're both advocating a placement behind the listener and a few feet higher than their seated height.
  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited February 2011
    stangjason wrote: »
    There are some pics in this post. Notice the pictures in the their frames? I would place my right surround above it. I would place the left surround on the slim piece of wall that sections off the entry way and kitchen and that slim section of wall sits further back than the other wall by about 6 inches so I figure I may need to compensate by placing the right surround further away from the listening position.
    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112428

    Build a shelf for the left surround, so that it can face forward (as if mounted on a rear wall), and mount the right one on the rear wall (both at the desired height). Run your AVR's auto-calibration and be done with it. They're bipole/dipole design is intended to be diffuse. My surrounds are not equidistant from my sweet spot. It would be impossible, unless I floated one in the air. One wall is 2 feet further away. The AVR is adjusted accordingly.
  • Geoff4rfc
    Geoff4rfc Posts: 1,824
    edited February 2011
    blueboxer wrote: »
    I am hoping you were able to figure out what others were easily able to. lol

    Sorry dude, it was just worded kinda funny, couldn't help Polk-ing fun at you :biggrin:
    When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only BatmanHT Source: Panasonic UB9000 - Display: LG OLED 65 8BPre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-32CHEmotiva: ERC 3 connected/w XLR'sSpeakersPolkAudio Mains: LSiM707, C: 706, S: 702F/X, RS: RTiA9, WS: RTiA9EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is