Addicted to near field.

Ricardo

I want to use a full range driver to build a speaker and drive it with no more than 2 watts.
I will do this some day.

dorokusai

treitz3 wrote: »

I just thought of this and it may not be near field but hear me out....maybe it is....

We were at an audio event late last year and we had a rig that we didn't have any room for inside. We were gonna move the pool table downstairs to set it up but....long story short? Wasn't gonna happen.

So, a buddy of mine were drinkin' a cold one trying to think of what we could do. Nothing came to mind due to space limitations and it became cigarette time, so we went outside. Just for **** and giggles, I had mentioned that we should set it up on the porch. "Not that anybody would listen to it" was my comment but it was determined that we just didn't have any other spot to set it up.

Well, we set it up and this was [in our opinion] definitely NOT the best location for said rig. The speakers were about 7-8 feet apart and due to the porch railings being so close, the furthest you could sit back was at tops 4 feet away. It was just a simple rig with tubes, a run of the mill CDP and SDA's.

As soon as it was set up, nobody left that deck for three hours straight until we had to go do something else. The sound stage was 8 to 10 feet out from the edge of the speakers and the depth was something I had experienced before with SDA's, however, there was something positively different about it.

Call me crazy but that was one of the best sounding rigs at the event. Not bad for a rig that was thought of as nobody would listen too.

Still don't get how this would work with an SDA speaker but it did. Rather well too, no matter the tube amp we put on it.

It doesn't sound crazy at all. Some of the coolest rigs I've heard have been weird, in odd locations or just plain crazy.

treitz3

I'm actually surprised that you say that. I was preparing to put on my flame suit. SDA's and near field? Whoda' thunk? It definitely worked though. I hope to do it again next year with some better gear. It was that good.

FTGV

ben62670 wrote: »

I am using these with some pretty good results. I need a sub for games though.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-828

Not a bad looking fullranger for the price.

I'm using a slighly different version of this. http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZMV5.html
The low crossover point and steep slope combined with the close driver spacing make them well suited to near field use.The bottom extends into the low 50's but for the heck of it I''m working on a 10" subwoofer to add to them.

BlueFox

I ran across that idea on Mapleshade's "free tweaks" section on their web-site.

"Almost everybody sits way too far from their speakers, that is, 8' to 10' or more. Try a low chair (or floor pillow) 5' away. You’ll hear a phenomenal increase in clarity, bass impact, and soundstage—roughly like spending 100% more on your speakers. Sitting close (aka near-field listening) tremendously reduces all room acoustic problems and the need for expensive room treatments."

http://mapleshadestore.com/upgrades_speakerplacement.php

When I want to do it, I put the recliner in the upright posistion, and lean foward. It sounds so good I will just start laughing, but reclining in the recliner also has its advantages. :biggrin:

treitz3

BlueFox wrote: »

Try a low chair (or floor pillow) 5' away. You’ll hear a phenomenal increase in clarity, bass impact, and sound stage

This is why I posted the thread about raising the sub woofer level. When I get down more toward the floor, the end result as to what hits my ears just sounds better. I have often thought that raising the speaker height would also sound better but I haven't gotten to making that thread yet.

This thread rocks. It has given me motivation to do some experimenting with the subs again. I kinda got lost in the "honey do" list but I have the risers sitting on my front porch. It's now just a matter of installing them.

BTW, the quotes above from Madisound are spot on to what I have observed so far in my audio travels.

treitz3

treitz3 wrote: »

BTW, the quotes above from Madisound are spot on to what I have observed so far in my audio travels.

The same goes for rising yourself "up", if you will. Take for example Ted's place. Trey's speakers and listening to BB King LIVE at the Regal. You sit down in the sweet spot. It's a great performance. That said, you move back 8-9 feet and stand up? You can watch him walk across the stage without trying.

Those that were there know exactly what I'm talking about.

Even though this example is not within the realms of near field listening, it touches on some of the aspects of what not listening in "the sweet spot" can produce. Up from the sweet spot, down from the sweet spot and closer to the sweet spot can all [in their own way] yield their own attributes.

That said, the only way I would go up is if I had a large room. I do mean large. No exceptions.

Face

FTGV wrote: »

Coaxials like these from SEAS https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=35_40_402_275&products_id=8767 and KEF's UNI-Q designs should work very good for near field use.

Don't forget Tannoy dual concentrics.

schwarcw

I've owned a pair of Rogers LS 3/5A (15 ohm) which sounded incredible with a small integrated Scott amplifier, tube tuner, CD player awesome sound!

I now use a pair of Kef 101's. Same tweeter and woofer as the original Rogers LS 3/5A, same cabinet, however they put the crossover underneath the sealed cabinet as to not breach the BBC patent.

Near field is fun. I'm looking to get a small single woofer, no crossover speaker. An Omega or a Fostex based cabinet is in my future.

fishbones

I'm relieved to hear some of the opinions here. I feel lately like I just don't fit in to the audiophile crowd 'cause I'm not enjoying it the way many say they do - and I have some of the same equipment. I was saying something similar to this (but in a different way) on another thread. It's rough around the edges and a bit wordy, but my point was similar to what you guys are referring to with near field listening. To me, it's just more engaging when the music is *around* me like in real life - instead of only 6'-10' in front of me. Don't get me wrong, I want things to have a fairly natural placement in front of me (not 4 singers coming out at me from each corner of the room), but the spatial *air* that comes from sounds in real life heard all around us needs to be there too (for me). Near-field listening, or 4 speakers, is the closest I get to this. When I listen to my 2-channel system, I find that even with all the switching and buying of equipment that I've done - I'm still just judging it, instead of enjoying it. I want to enjoy it. When I'm nearfield at my computer, or listening in my SUV (4 speakers), I enjoy it first, judge it last. Many of the audiophile requirements coming out of my 2-channel system are there, but one thing always gets me - all the good sound is TRAPPED behind some imaginary wall 5' in front of me. It makes me want to bust down the wall with a sledgehammer, but there ain't no wall. It's just the end result of taking natural sound, compressing it, recording it, mixing it, processing it and then faintly reproducing it out through a maze of electronics in my system. When I listen to 4 speakers or near-field the sound wraps around me in a more natural manner as it would if there was a live performance in the room. I find I don't judge it as much, just enjoy it. Anyone else go through this turmoil?

Oh, and FTGV, those Madisound speakers look very cool! Have you tried them, or anyone else on here heard them? There is no reviews on them and they seem very interesting?

FTGV

fishbones wrote: »

Oh, and FTGV, those Madisound speakers look very cool! Have you tried them, or anyone else on here heard them? There is no reviews on them and they seem very interesting?

A number of years ago I built a pair of speakers with an earlier version of that SEAS coax driver and have heard a number of KEF's UNI'Q models.While the coincidental configuration does have some inherent problems the ones I have heard all did a very good job of the imaging/soundstage thing.

Here is a link to someone using what appears to be the same SEAS driver in a commercial(non kit)speaker. http://www.soundstage.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=143:von-schweikert-audio-unifield-1-loudspeakers&catid=55:full-length-reviews&Itemid=4

VR3

I kind of do the near field thing --

My speakers are roughly 10 feet apart and I sit maybe 5-6 feet from the center stage...

fishbones

FTGV wrote: »

While the coincidental configuration does have some inherent problems the ones I have heard all did a very good job of the imaging/soundstage thing.

What were the problems you experienced if you don't mind me asking?

FTGV wrote: »

Here is a link to someone using what appears to be the same SEAS driver in a commercial(non kit)speaker. http://www.soundstage.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=143:von-schweikert-audio-unifield-1-loudspeakers&catid=55:full-length-reviews&Itemid=4

The review points out that the VMA speaker was not very forgiving of poor recordings or equipment sourcing it, I wonder if that's the driver, or the what was built around the driver that gives it that characteristic. I listen to mostly bad recorded stuff (rock/pop), so this wouldn't work for me.

vc69

This is a buddy of mine's near-field rig. Sounds amazing.

Face wrote: »

Don't forget Tannoy dual concentrics.

I so want to hear a pair of Tannoys

heiney9

Ricardo wrote: »

I want to use a full range driver to build a speaker and drive it with no more than 2 watts.
I will do this some day.

That will be my next project, to either buy a single driver speaker or build one and drive it with less than 10 watts.

At times I enjoy my computer rig and the intimacy of the small room and close listening position more than the main rig. The only thing missing in near field, smaller speaker listening experience is "scale". My 5B's can't deliver the scale the 1C's can. I know from listening to your set-up with the Maggies this is not an issue. You're room is small Ricardo, but you have it "dialed in" and it sounds fantastic!!!

H9

Face

heiney9 wrote: »

That will be my next project, to either buy a single driver speaker or build one and drive it with less than 10 watts.

At times I enjoy my computer rig and the intimacy of the small room and close listening position more than the main rig. The only thing missing in near field, smaller speaker listening experience is "scale". My 5B's can't deliver the scale the 1C's can. I know from listening to your set-up with the Maggies this is not an issue. You're room is small Ricardo, but you have it "dialed in" and it sounds fantastic!!!

H9

If scale is what you're looking for, the above mentioned setup is a step in the opposite direction.

heiney9

Face wrote: »

If scale is what you're looking for, the above mentioned setup is a step in the opposite direction.

Mike, I realize that. I have "scale" with the main rig. The single driver speaker will become part of the computer room rig. Not completely sold on the idea yet.

MillerLiteScott

I use the Best Buy Insignia NS-B211 concentric speakers for nearfield listening that were real cheap a few years ago. I bought a pair on craigslist for $40. I replace the caps and the resisters with 1% Daytons and Mills resistors. They work very well for nearfield listening in my opinion. They image really well, have a nice deep soundfield, and the sound extends beyond the outside of the speakers with well recorded material.

I enjoy the nearfield experience but like H9 said you do not get the impact of larger speakers but that is to be expected.

Scott

Face

Those Insignia's sound really good with GR Research(Danny Richie's) crossover and cabinet mods. And as you mentioned Scott, they work great for nearfield listening.

sda2mike

great topic! i love to listen to some dead shows while 'nearfield'..i have a jolida fx10 tube int. and their mini dac along with some old skool klh 32's...it really sounds great up close and if i walk away it's barely audible:)

MillerLiteScott

Here is a thread I started a while back about near field if anyone cars for a looksee.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88993&highlight=millerlitescott

hoosier21

Face wrote: »

Don't forget Tannoy dual concentrics.

that's what Daddy wants to try

Russ

FTGV

fishbones wrote: »

What were the problems you experienced if you don't mind me asking?

Since the tweeter is sitting at the center of the woofer the very high frequencies are somewhat irregular because of the reflections off of the woofers cone.Here is a link showing raw response of the tweeter and woofer. You can see the top end is a bit ragged. http://www.seas.no/images/stories/prestige/pdfdatasheet/h1333_t18re_xfctv2_datasheet.pdf
Also since the tweeter is effectively horn loaded by a moving horn the acoustic load seen by the tweeter changes with woofer displacement.This can generate higher levels of intermodulation distortion than might occur with physically separated drivers.On the flip side with the woofer acting as a wave guide for the tweeter the result is very controlled directivity.

The review points out that the VMA speaker was not very forgiving of poor recordings or equipment sourcing it, I wonder if that's the driver, or the what was built around the driver that gives it that characteristic.

Looking at the frequency responses shown in the link in the review it appears that there is an excess of energy in the 1-2k region which IMO would make it forward sounding and unforgiving on some material.I believe it's the result of choices the designer made in development of the crossover not the drivers.

Face

FTGV wrote: »

Looking at the frequency responses shown in the link in the review it appears that there is an excess of energy in the 1-2k region which IMO would make it forward sounding and unforgiving on some material.I believe it's the result of AWFUL choices the designer made in development of the crossover not the drivers.

Fixed.

FTGV

Face wrote: »

Fixed.

Thanks Mike,I concur.I think Mr VS needs to upgrade his measurement lab.

fishbones

Thanks FTGV for the great info. I'll be looking further into this.

Face

These look interesting for those who are looking for a near field FRD with some bottom end. https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=9036

Ricardo

https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=45_241_308&products_id=8320

$830 each

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Face

Ricardo wrote: »

https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=45_241_308&products_id=8320

$830 each

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

I'd take this instead: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-346

schwarcw

Face wrote: »

I'd take this instead: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-346

Mike, what Madisound cabinet would you recommend with that speaker?

Thanks!