so where is our psw-808

J9_ls1

Isn't this supposed to be released by now? If not now, it is supposed to be close to August right?

organ

If I remember correctly, it's being pushed back until this fall. I'm going to try to demo the 808 and see if it's that much better than the 650.

Maurice

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by organ
If I remember correctly, it's being pushed back until this fall. I'm going to try to demo the 808 and see if it's that much better than the 650.

Maurice

It will be a large improvement over the 650. In fact the 505 will give a 650 a run for the money.

I think the 808 will be a very respectable sub in terms of power extension and SQ.

Doc

VR3

If it dosnt play 110db it can sit on a log and rot. If it can't hit to 20hz or below it can suck my big toe. If it has tons of port turbulance it can kiss my dog. I don't care for Polk subwoofers. I have yet to hear a *good* one. Their alright, but I'm tired of hearing this boom machine that shames their speakers. Polk would sell alot more speaker system if they had better subwoofers. IMO. Maybe the 808 will be an unmatched quality.
I'll take the SVS over the Polk anyday. But man that finish is friggin awesome. LSi finish on a sub! Su-weeeeeeeeet! Although, it is on the floor - hope your not clumbsy!

goingganzo

and the 808 i bet will be around 800-1000 bucks for that you can get a real sweet sub i bet my sub will distroy 2 808 hands down

VR3

Polk needs to get rid of these friggin 10 inch woofers and get something *REAL*. WTH is up with that?????
I know they are more accurate than a 12 inch woofer.
But any high quality 12 inch woofer, or 15...heck even a HQ 18 inch woofer is good. I wouldnt buy the 808 on principle of the 10's. I prefer *atleast* a 12. 12's move ALOT more air in comparison. Dual 12's, the PSW-1200 is a good example.
Dual 18's would be awesome! I would have to get in on that kinda action!
Polk,
Drop the 10's and get something worth a rant please. Ya'll sell alot more subwoofers. IMO.

J9_ls1

Is it due out by August? I am thinking about just calling a rep and seeing if they know an approximate release date.

fireshoes

Sid, I thought you had gotten over the driver size thing?

VR3

Well, until you can show me a 6.25 inch woofer that can play louder without the surround imploding, I won't change my attics.
I have heard 8 inch woofers. Not enough SPL.
Heard a Velo HGS 10 inch, large amounts of SPL, but large amounts of THD at low exstention. The Velo also cost 1,400. The Polk will cost no more than 1,000 and will sport 2. Which means less costly drivers. Less costly amps. ETC - The 808 will not be anything special. IMO.

Wilson Audio's Subwoofer sports a 10 inch. It is rated average and cost bundles. If it sported a 19 like its bigger brother, which holds dual 19's it would be highly rated. BTW - Its not. If it was, then possibly I would change my mind about small drive subs if they had a 4,000 dollar driver in it!! :rolleyes:

I prefer a 12 inch woofer over anything. Because I feel a subwoofer is not anything smaller than a 10. I also believe a 10 inch subwoofer is REALLY pushing the definetion of a subwoofer. Doc can lay down specs, lay outs, whatever he wishes. I have yet to *see* a 10 inch sub or smaller lay down the SPL. But they are accurate. No Doubt.

If 10's were as good as 12's or close to, SVS would use them.......do they?

dorokusai

I want a Bose subwoofer.....it has 20, 4 inch woofers in a tuned port enclosure, that brings frequency response to a whopping 175hz!!!!!

HOLY SHITE!!!!

That SOB would shake the.....well move the....hmmmm....let me know that there was bass!!

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
Heard a Velo HGS 10 inch, large amounts of SPL, but large amounts of THD at low exstention.

Cool your jets here, Sid. You may not like the sound of the Velo HGS 10, but whatever you were hearing was not distortion.

The high gain servo circuit in the HGS series specifically is designed to keep distortion to less than 2% at all volumes and frequencies.

You can't hear 2% THD from a subwoofer - no one can. It becomes audible up around 10-15% and even then might not be objectionable. Hell, the Sunfire subs crank out almost 50% THD at low frequencies and high volumes, and some people seem to love sound. Remember, harmonic distortion is simply the woofer creating harmonics (multiples) of the source frequency.

So with a pure 25 Hz sine wave input, you would measure how much sound of its own the woofer creates at 50, 75, 100 Hz, etc. These are known as 2nd, 3rd, 4th order harmonics, etc. When you sum them all together, the total volume of all the harmonics created by the woofer is referred to as "total harmonic distortion".

Then you compare THD to the volume of the actual sine wave, and express it as a percentage. This is harder than it might seem, because the dB scale of a log base 10 function, and you cannot say that 60 dB is 50% of 120 dB, for example.

The SPL of the sine wave and of each harmonic needs to be converted to non log, and THEN you can mathmatically add them up and create a fractional percentage.

The only way to measure THD is to run a spectrum analysis on the woofer output and actually look at and measure the peaks of the sine wave and each harmonic.

That's actually why the HGS series doesn't play as loud as one might expect given it's size and power. The servo circuit ramps down the volume the instant it see any distortion being produced.

For example, a single SVS Ultra can actually play louder than the HGS-18. But the SVS has somewhat higher distortion as a trade-off. Keep things relative here, though - the guy who compared the HGS-18 and the Ultra says the Ultra driver is the closest thing to a servo design (without actually being one) from a low distortion standpoint, that he has ever heard.

Doc

VR3

I see you didn't comment on the small woofer stand point

I get what your talking about, bass frequencies are loud, and boomy, I can't detect thd. But my dang M&K has a flappy driver, so it distorts everytime it runs into trouble....:rolleyes:

faster100

people claim to hear THD, I just don't believe it :rolleyes:
Unless like spec said, when it gets to higher levels ok... then its still up in the air.

wlrandall

After calibrating last night I played around with the low freq sweeps on the Avia disk. My bigger problem is my stinking house. I was not amused with the walls, cabinets and everything else "singing" along with the sweeps...I hate the way houses are built these days. Maybe some folks are cursing their subs when they should be looking at the room it's in.

For those that are interested, two PSW350s will nail >110 dB; surprised me! That is until you get down to 27 Hz...

VR3

My room dosnt rattle man........

it shifts.......

My house is 3 inches off center, and out of square. With a poorly braced attic. The walls have 1 nail for each stud, needs 2 so they dont turn and rattle.

The only way to rattle proof a house is to put glue on each end of each stud, and glue the walls to the floors, and glue everything basically. Other than that, it will always rattle. Build them great or build them poor. Without glue, they shall rattle.

The only way to get the studs to stop moving is to put OSB over them to hold them in place, then sheatrock is. That is also the only other way, but glue it still needed of course......

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
I see you didn't comment on the small woofer stand point

I get what your talking about, bass frequencies are loud, and boomy, I can't detect thd. But my dang M&K has a flappy driver, so it distorts everytime it runs into trouble....:rolleyes:

I'm sure you can hear what is left of the blown driver flapping around on your M&K.

I'm just saying no Velo HGS subwoofer creates any audible distortion if it is functioning correctly.

And yes, we all know bigger drivers move more air, all things being equal.

But a smaller driver is not inherently better than a bigger driver in terms of speed or anything else. The only advantage is its ability to play at higher frequencies.

That's why the 6.5" driver Polk uses is typically crossed over to the tweeter at 2,100 Hz. Try that with an 18" driver.

Doc

VR3

Doc, I'm not talking about the blown woofer.......

:cool: M&K woofers, if you ever hear one flap in the breeze all day. Its like a constant pop each time it hits anything harder than 100db......

The blown woofers just makes a constant BLEH sound....

I'll take an 18 inch subwoofer over a 6.5 inch sub anyday. Although I wouldnt cross it over 60hz....:rolleyes:

J9_ls1

Anyone think it will be out by the end of August?

VR3

Bobish........

I know a smaller woofer sounds better. Common sense.

No SMALL driver can produce the SPL unless they are coupled together in large quanities. IMO.....all the way.

VR3

I bet it will be an accurate ****. But will it be able to do the SPL??

VR3

Sean,

Small woofers + Big Sound = Lots of XMAX

Small Woofer + Lots of XMAX = BIG SURROUND

SMALL + LOTS OF XMAX + BIG SURROUND = EMPLODED SURROUND......

Large Woofer + Good Quality = Good Quality Sound

brettw22

Some people keep that 'always right' part of them past their teenage years.......just ask Demi

RuSsMaN

I have 6.5 inch drivers in my SRS's, and that 2ch rig can cruise right past 120db, and still have a little play in the gas pedal.

Then of course, those *wimpy* 6.5's also are what makes the 15" passive radiator move, taking me right down to the 20-22Hz range.

Cheers,
Russ

brettw22

Are you just begging for a big EFF YOU Russ?

brettw22

Sean, if i wasn't so sure that's what Russ was sayin, I wouldn't have brough it up.....;)

Dr. Spec

Sid,

If you are going to bandy about terms, at least use them in the proper context.

xMax refers to the maximum linear distance the woofer cone can travel in one direction. It is usually measured in mm. Beyond xMax, the surround or cone or suspension will start to stretch/deform and will impede woofer's movement, causing a non-linear waveform.

xMag is the absolute maximum distance the cone can travel just before the VC former strikes the magnet backplate and the woofer "bottoms out".

xMax is used in conjunction with the effective surface area of the driver (Sd) to determine the maximum swept displacement of the driver in one direction, and then in the opposite direction. This total displacement is referred to as Vd.

The highest output driver for home use right now is the 15" Adire Tumult, which has an xMax of 34 mm and a Vd of 5.1 liters. That driver can move a LOT of air with extremely low levels of distortion.

In comparsion, the SVS dB-12 Plus driver in my PB2+ has an xMax of about 26 mm and a Vd of about 2.6 liters. Since I have two drivers, the PB2+ woofers can move about the same amount of air as a single Tumult woofer.

In general, an xMax of over 15 mm is considered a "high excursion" driver, and anything over 20 mm is exceptionally high and quite rare.

Doc

mantis

Ok not liking the HGS10 by Velodyne....huh.How many REAL subs have you heard??????????

Velodynes are amoung the very best subs made period.HGS is what Velodyne is all about.

Most subs on the market are not up to par.Velodyne is one that is.Clean clear and plays very deep bass.Pressure is what they are all about.........learn more, get out of the closet.Experience this thing called life.........stop talking smack.It's old

VR3

I heard the HGS series. Not worth the price tag. But yes, it was great sounding. IMO.

By the way Dan.....

WTH are you talking about? HOW did you get Velodyne into this subject? Did I miss something?

Mantis....

I have heard --

Wilson Audio
B&K
Mcintosh
Definitive Technology
Velodyne HGS, CHT
M&K
Polk Audio
Bose

I think I have heard PLENTY of good, accurate bass to know what it sounds like. The Wilson Audio wasnt even a subwoofer (X-1). Has a built in subwoofer but it was loud, and way accurate. Probally the most accurate bass I have ever heard so far! I loved it. The Velodyne HGS10 , by the way -- Did not even come close to the accuracy, or the output or dream of doing so against the Wilson Audio. Bigger Woofers, of a higher quality walked right over the 10 inch woofer that the Velo sported...surprised? no....

VR3

Well.....

be like Russ......

Get settled with the Ports.......