Setup and Rti A9s

PiG

Hi Guys,

I've been lurking the forum for some time now and enjoying the quality info that gets paid forward here. That being said, I'm hoping I can get more of the same with my situation/issue relating to speaker choice and setup.

For starters my current setup is 5.1:

Fronts - RTi10s
Centre - not worth mentioning ... cough... sony...cough (hoping to get a CSi A6 soon)
Surround - RTi8s
Subwoofer - Sony (this one is decent IMO)

Running off a Technics AVR SA-DX 950 that's probably around 8-10 years old (entry level, nothing special) claims to be 100W/channel but I know they're lying. The devils in the details. This probably won't be upgraded too soon (how often have you heard that?).

I use my setup for 70% HT and 30% music listening. My room size is about 15ft by 20ft. I'm planning on sticking with 5.1, the room isn't suited for much more.

Here are my questions. First off, I have the opportunity to uprade to RTi A9s in place of my RTi10s. Given, my current setup and receiver do you guys think this is a good idea? will I be able to run the A9s without clipping them to death (still hazy on what that is exactly); I don't go super loud anyways. I do hope to get the CSi A6 soon.

Second, if I do choose to upgrade to the A9s I'm wondering what you guys think will make a better surround speaker. Shoud I use the Rti10s as surrounds or stick with the RTi8s as surrounds? I should say I love the bass that the 10s produce even with my entry level AVR but I find the midrange to be a bit lacking even congested and dull really; it's been a while since I had my 8s as fronts but I don't remember them having that issue (I know this is an epic discussion on the forum, I've read much of it).

For the surrounds question I'll have to get rid of either the 10s or 8s depending on which I use so I'm hoping you guys can let me know WHY you would keep one over the other for surrounds.

Thanks and Happy New Year!

leroyjr1

I'd definitely go with the A9's and I like surrounds over my head so I would sell both the 8's and 10's.

tonyb

The rti10's are some really nice speakers for HT. However, maybe give some thought to upgradeing the receiver with one that has preouts to add an amp down the road since you like your bass. That old tech maybe 100 watts driving 2 channels, but 5 channels I'd be surprised if it was pushing any more than 60 watts. This could be the reason why your not too happy with the sound of the RTI10's. The A9's would suck up even more juice, so I wouldn't expect a big improvment in sound without a big improvment in power.

PiG

leroyjr1 wrote: »

I'd definitely go with the A9's and I like surrounds over my head so I would sell both the 8's and 10's.

Yeah I sometimes find the higher they are the better but I think I'd like to give the setup a shot with the A9's as fronts.

So you don't think I'll clip the A9's to death?

leroyjr1

PiG wrote: »

Yeah I sometimes find the higher they are the better but I think I'd like to give the setup a shot with the A9's as fronts.

So you don't think I'll clip the A9's to death?

No, just be smart with the volume and you'll be fine until you get more power.

PiG

tonyb wrote: »

The rti10's are some really nice speakers for HT. However, maybe give some thought to upgradeing the receiver with one that has preouts to add an amp down the road since you like your bass. That old tech maybe 100 watts driving 2 channels, but 5 channels I'd be surprised if it was pushing any more than 60 watts. This could be the reason why your not too happy with the sound of the RTI10's. The A9's would suck up even more juice, so I wouldn't expect a big improvment in sound without a big improvment in power.

Yes this is what I eventually had in mind for a future receiver I noticed the Onkyo NR 708and Pioneer VSX 1120-k were the earliest models of the two respective manufactures that had preouts.

About the tech, those were the details I was talking about the THD is pretty bad too from what I remember (not claiming to know what that means sound wise though).

I've used the 10's in stereo mode and they do come alive more but the midrange still seems consistent with what some others are complaining about, a muddy feel to it all. With a CSi A6 in tow would this still be a moot point?

PiG

leroyjr1 wrote: »

No, just be smart with the volume and you'll be fine until you get more power.

I don't usually go below -35db or so on the the AVR with the current setup, I'm not sure if that's enough for you to go on, but is that "smart" or risky?

dorokusai

I'd suggest seriously upgrading your AVR before you do anything. Just because you're not clipping the AVR or loudspeakers doesn't mean its not causing damage, even with minor barely audible distortion. The RTiA9 will kill your current receiver and/or...a few mistakes on the volume dial and you could easily fry your tweeters.

Take 30 days off from audio, sell what you need to sell, including the Technics and invest in a refurbished Onkyo from OneCall.

PiG

dorokusai wrote: »

I'd suggest seriously upgrading your AVR before you do anything. Just because you're not clipping the AVR or loudspeakers doesn't mean its not causing damage, even with minor barely audible distortion. The RTiA9 will kill your current receiver and/or...a few mistakes on the volume dial and you could easily fry your tweeters.

Take 30 days off from audio, sell what you need to sell, including the Technics and invest in a refurbished Onkyo from OneCall.

More great advice from all you guys.

I won't lie I was hoping that I wouldn't be hearing this last bit

PSOVLSK

dorokusai wrote: »

I'd suggest seriously upgrading your AVR before you do anything.

+1. You already have nice speakers. Upgrade the AVR, possibly add an amp and you'll think you upgraded speakers.

I've got a Denon 1906 (I think that's the model) that I'd sell pretty cheap. You could probably get it and a decent amp for around $350 total.

dorokusai

There's a Denon 1708 for $220 in the Flea Market that would be way better than what you have now. I'd get that and stick with your current RTi series. Do the RTiA down the road or something else perhaps. The Denon is a great deal and feature packed....plus pre outs. Better move quick.

BtrSound

Does the 1708 have pre outs? I have just purchased the RtiA9's for my front and Rtia7's for the rear and I am running the 1911. It does not have pre outs, and in my opinion is not churning enough wattage to sufficiently power them. I am thinking about upgradeing to the Denon 3311 or Onkyo TX-NR1008/1007.

PiG

BtrSound wrote: »

Does the 1708 have pre outs? I have just purchased the RtiA9's for my front and Rtia7's for the rear and I am running the 1911. It does not have pre outs, and in my opinion is not churning enough wattage to sufficiently power them. I am thinking about upgradeing to the Denon 3311 or Onkyo TX-NR1008/1007.

I'm not sure if the 1708 has pre outs but I've read some reviews and don't think it would be ideal for myself. If it doesn't have preouts that's probably a deal killer in itself.

PiG

OK, so far I'm hearing some mixed opinions about whether I should use A9's or just stick with the 10's and whethere my receiver can handle them.

If you guys were to choose between an Rti8 or Rti10 for surrounds, which do you guys feel is more suited to the task???

Thanks again!

dorokusai

The owners manual is more than available online PIG...it's exactly what I looked at. I'm out, good luck.

tonyb

BtrSound wrote: »

Does the 1708 have pre outs? I have just purchased the RtiA9's for my front and Rtia7's for the rear and I am running the 1911. It does not have pre outs, and in my opinion is not churning enough wattage to sufficiently power them. I am thinking about upgradeing to the Denon 3311 or Onkyo TX-NR1008/1007.

Both of those receivers are fine, but I would still think about adding an amp even with those receivers.

cnoat

PiG wrote: »

OK, so far I'm hearing some mixed opinions about whether I should use A9's or just stick with the 10's and whethere my receiver can handle them.

If you guys were to choose between an Rti8 or Rti10 for surrounds, which do you guys feel is more suited to the task???

Thanks again!

My 8's do an outstanding job as surrounds.I have never heard the 10's.But my 12's sounded pretty bad until I got some power going to them.I am with doro on this.You will see a huge improvement with a new quality reciever.

gp4jesus

I agree w/the power upgrade/increase argument. A component's sound quality biggest influence is (are?) the one(s) driving it.

IMHO if your system is under powered you will say WOW(!) when that changes*. Likely you'll also realize the higher QUALITY power "by-product"-your "icing on the cake!" I KNOW what having "surplus power**" sounds like... ...effortless!
* check my signature
** had it for years in several forms

After that, decide to either:
1. match (replace) your center to work w/your current LR (less $$)
or
2. go w/the A9/CSi A6 combo (more $$$)

cheers tony

PS: sig need updating: Proscan 35" out-Toshiba REGZA 42" LCD in; 8 kids w/one more pending

PSOVLSK

I'm sure the 1708 has pre-outs or Doro wouldn't have recommended it. I know the 1906 I mentioned has pre-outs because I've used them.

Here's the link where I bought it: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70318

Again, if you're interested let me know. I can send pictures, but it looks as good today as it does in the pictures I linked.

tonyb

gp4jesus wrote: »

8 kids w/one more pending

Oh man, condoms ain't your bag I guess.:biggrin:

Congrats anyway.....curious though, do they all have your first name like George Foreman did ?

PiG

dorokusai wrote: »

The owners manual is more than available online PIG...it's exactly what I looked at. I'm out, good luck.

I wasn't suggesting that it didn't have preouts. I just didn't get that far in my research, I came across a number of user reviews that cited a reoccuring reliablility issue with this particular model and I thought I'd steer clear that's all.

I appreciate the help regardless.

Truth is I'm sure I agree with you that a new receiver is probably past due. Just that I can have the A9's for a decent price at the moment and so if I go that route it throws my upgrade scheduled out the window; I can't afford to do both immediately. Initially I had only intended on get the CSi A6 first then upgrade the receiver which a number of you have suggested as a good route.

BeRad

The center channel is arguably the most important speaker for HT use. If you upgraded that and the AVR first, you would notice a MUCH larger increase in sound quality, than if you upgraded the mains. Don't forget that adding a separate amp will make almost any speaker sound like a completely different speaker (in a good way).

When I added a B&K 2ch amp to power my RTI8's, I was THRILLED. I loaned it to my friend to use on his A7's and he jokingly told me that I'm not getting the amp back because the sound was so sick (and he is not even close to an audiophile, just a casual listener)

I think you will get the best sound for your buck if you went with a new center and AVR, then an amp (even just a 2 or 3 channel), and then get into upgrading the mains.

mdaudioguy

Lots of A9 talk here lately, but IMHO, you should work toward unleashing the power of those 10s. They deserve more love! They even work great as center channels.

PSOVLSK

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110018&highlight=R50%27s

If an amp does this for R50's, imagine what it will do for your Rti 10's.

PiG

I couldn't see upgrading to A9's without having power to back them up. It'd be like throwing a 4 cylinder into a Lambo. It has all the sexy looks, but will still leave you less than thrilled when you take it for a drive.

we've all fallen for the sexy looks at one time or another, haven't we?

One thing to consider would be an attempt to sell both the 8 and 10 and go with the A9 and some A1/A3's for surrounds. Hell, you could even look at the RTi4/6 on Crutchfield for the surrounds. They are selling new for $150/250 a pair. If you could work that out as an even trade, or even close to it, you might be able to meet both your needs and not sacrifice much sound in the process.

A nice option but I'm up in the GWN so this wouldn't be an option and I'm worried by the time I'm done selling and buying I'll not have saved a great deal for a slight downgrade.

Lots of A9 talk here lately, but IMHO, you should work toward unleashing the power of those 10s. They deserve more love! They even work great as center channels.

Wish I had the space for the third one. I'd definitely go for that first.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...hlight=R50%27s

If an amp does this for R50's, imagine what it will do for your Rti 10's.

Great link thanks! I'd have to upgrade the centre, avr and get amped... in truth this is what I would have wanted to do eventually if i didn't have the A9's available, but they had to show up and wreck the marriage...

PiG

Assuming I'm going with using Rti A9's as fronts and upgrading to a CSi A6 all run on a Pioneer vsx 1120-k for an AVR would you use Rti 10's or 8's for surrounds. I know a lot of it is personal preference, but I'm not certain as to how much and what type of sound within a movie is reproduced by surrounds.

Thanks

BeRad

I'd probably run the 8's since the A9s are going to squeeze the life out of the avr as it is, adding the 10's to the mix will just make matters worse.

gp4jesus

Bottom line: get your electronics up to snuff. I'd start @ the beginning w/the source but...
1. this seems a "speakers versus amps" debate...
...upgrade your SSP/AVR* so you CAN drive 'em**w/higher quality/quantity power.
* important to get the SSP part right along the way. Doing so will give you aural immersion
** regardless of which speakers you settle on

2. Get your source right (e.g. Blue Ray) & CONNECT it*...
"You MUST retrieve those one & zeros CORRECTLY! NOTHING you do after that can make up for any failing here." See 3. below.
* ... correctly! That's as far as I'll go with that. Any further will ignite thread derailing mud slinging!

3. Don't connect mediocre sources w/cheap ICs to great electronics and expect great results. Consider:
a. VCR connected, via coax, to THE state-of-art 50" TV.
b. middle to upscale market Blue Ray player connected to a middle to upscale market 50" TV using aftermarket IC(s).
My $ is on "b" as the better viewing experience. This applies to sound too.

4. Saved the end for last. Looked into what RTi8/10s are. The RTi A5s & 'A7s replace them respectively; its no accident their driver complements are the same. RTi & RTi A series speakers [inside] are far more similar than different. Don't quote me but I believe both product lines use the same tweeter, very similar, if not the same, mids & woofers. They do have slightly different XOs*. The CSi A5 matches your '8s & '10s hence your first choice for a center speaker ensuring the (very critical) best possible, to quote an earlier post, timbre match.
* you could upgrade all 5 channels' XOs** for way less than used A9s & retain 5 channel timbre match!
** XO caps. Click on http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61727&highlight=capacitor+shootout

5. Connections. If you don't have it covered, Parts Express sells 30' rolls of 12 ga OFC speaker wire for $9.80 each; a mere $.33/foot! W/tips! Ye-a-h I know, some reading this will say "So-and-so company's wire..." Heavy OFC speaker wire that's real cheap! I'll PM you my experiences with wire.

gp4jesus

tonyb wrote: »

Congrats anyway.....curious though, do they all have your first name like George Foreman did ?

No; all have different names, none w/my name.
Oldest by birth, the rest adopted through foster care.

tony

tonyb

gp4jesus wrote: »

No; all have different names, none w/my name.
Oldest by birth, the rest adopted through foster care.

tony

Your a good man...with patience of steel. I think I'd be in a rubber room with that many kids.

PiG

BeRad wrote: »

I'd probably run the 8's since the A9s are going to squeeze the life out of the avr as it is, adding the 10's to the mix will just make matters worse.

Yeah... sounds like a good idea. I'm just not sure if the surrounds would even benefit from having woofers. I know they'd be underpowered as it is just thinking down the line if I get my hands on an amp and it'll free up the AVR to feed the surrounds a little easier.

Thanks!