VPI Scout TT mat ???
george daniel
Posts: 12,096
Guys,I have a scout with the standard acrylic platter,,300 rpm motor upgrade,anti skate,,and JMW memorial tonearm,and Joe's clamp,with that said,whats the consensus regarding mats.Thank you kindly.
JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
Post edited by george daniel on
Comments
-
-
I have a Scout TT and have tried lots of different configurations. I havent tried a mat but you may want to check Agon and AudioAsylum forums for other comments. What I found has been:
- Make sure the plinth is isolated on a solid table
- If possible, set the tension on the plinth feet the same and level the table the plinth sits on
- Ensure your spindle to pivot distance is 223mm. Get a Mint LP protractor and good magnification to use it. Its worth the money.
- Use a non-elastic thread drive belt instead of the supplied rubber band. You will need some form of electronic speed control to feed the motor about 63Hz to get the correct platter speed. A PS Audio P300 works well for this. Monofilament fishing line is too slippery; silk thread worked the best or thick carpet/sewing thread. Use a blood knot for its low profile. I will never again use a stretchy material for a belt after using thread.
- Periphery ring clamp
- Signature tonearm is much better than the standard.
I would suggest to start with the first four points.
The biggest difference thus far has been making a new plinth from a self damping material. This had been a risky venture with an unknown result as no one else has tried this but has been well worth the cost and effort.
picture
Audio qualia
Arthur SchopenhauerAll truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident. -
^ Is that a Corian plinth?
GD,
Are you looking to address a specific issue, or just asking in general?
Agree in general with BDT... a mat kinda works against your clamp. However, were static a major issue, an anti-stat mat can help.More later,
Tour...
Vox Copuli
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb
"Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
"It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
"There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD -
Thanks guys,, no static issues,,TT is on a 1.5 inch maple base,,motor is connected to a medical grade transformer based PS.Ocassionally I have heard what I would describe as "motor noise" between tracks,and if I tap on the plinth,it kinda reasonates thru the speakers.I'll experiment with some type of damping (such as a mousepad) under the motor.I appreciate the replies.JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
-
I really like my Herbie's Sound Labs Way Excellent II mat. Seems to help with bass extension and detail. I use it on both my main rig tables.
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/ttmat.htmSDA-1C (full mods)
Carver TFM-55
NAD 1130 Pre-amp
Rega Planar 3 TT/Shelter 501 MkII
The Clamp
Revox A77 Mk IV Dolby reel to reel
Thorens TD160/Mission 774 arm/Stanton 881S Shibata
Nakamichi CR7 Cassette Deck
Rotel RCD-855 with modified tube output stage
Cambridge Audio DACmagic Plus
ADC Soundshaper 3 EQ
Ben's IC's
Nitty Gritty 1.5FI RCM -
Rumble can be a ****... Isolating the motor to eliminate an external vibration route sounds like a plan to me. What's your rig sitting on, i.e., particle board shelf, wood cabinet, glass? You may need a denser material, e.g., marble.
The main bearing is also a potential cause. If your motor isolation yields no improvement, I'd check this next.
That your plinth tapping is picked up is not surprising. Where is the arm when you've done this? Is this during play or with the arm on its rest? If either of these, use the arm lift to suspend the arm in mid-air and tap. I don't know the Scout, but from a cursory look at Scout pics the tone arm pivot looks as or more susceptable to plinth vibration pick up than the platter.More later,
Tour...
Vox Copuli
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb
"Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
"It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
"There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD -
I don't think it's the motor, I mean, the motor is isolated from the plinth. I'm suspecting that it's the bearing. Drop a little Slick 50 in there and see how that works.
I've not had any issues with the Scoutmaster, however, get in touch with DAGLJAM6, his little isolation bricks are pretty amazing.
BDTI plan for the future. - F1Nut -
Thanks guys--hmmm,, never thought of slick 50,,, although my father swore by it.JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
-
What ever you use, make sure its high viscosity so it doesn't run (fall) out of the inverted bearing leaving it dry.george daniel wrote: »Thanks guys--hmmm,, never thought of slick 50,,, although my father swore by it.
Is there enough lithium grease in the bearing now? I will reassemble my VPI plinth and tap it to see if I have any resonance issues. I don't recall hearing any 'motor' noise between tracks.
Arthur SchopenhauerAll truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident. -
What is the sound that you are experiencing sound like? I have recently begun hearing a tapping or knocking sound when the needle is tracking, in between tracks or during very quiet parts of tracks....Zu Soul Supreme
Coincident Frankenstein mkIII
Esoteric K-07 -
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! No mat, just couple the record to the platter with the clamp and you have the finest in damping etc.
+1 on the bearing and lubing it up a bit! -
Just recalled this. Your belt might be grabbing. Have a look at this post.
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showpost.php?p=706121&postcount=93
Arthur SchopenhauerAll truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident. -
Just recalled this. Your belt might be grabbing. Have a look at this post.
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showpost.php?p=706121&postcount=93
If it is a grabbing belt and you use the talcum power (which I use) method laid out by John, make absolutely sure you use "scentless" talcum power. I've found that the added chemical used for scenting power is too slick. -
Directly, yes, but not externally through whatever they are sitting upon... the motor is isolated from the plinth.
I laughed, but you're serious? Never heard of using Slick 50, but seems plausible.Drop a little Slick 50 in there and see how that works.
If its a bearing issue, Id clean the well and inspect the bearing before adding lube and Id at least consider the lube VPI recommends which appears to be:
jm1,AudioKarma Thread wrote:In response to an e-mail asking what they recommend, VPI replied that they use white lithium based grease on their inverted bearings and Mobil 1 or fishing-reel oil on their other bearings. Nothing too exotic here.
I ask again, Is that a Corian plinth?
gd,
There was a laboratory supply place that delivered marble slabs for analytical balances on the cheap. Google is not producing it (on page 1 anyway) and link is buried in the back up to my defunct Dell PC. If I come across it, I will post it. But of course your local countertop installers are an option. Sink/ cooktop cutouts are about the right size.
gd, is hearing rumble... think mill stone rolling. Your sound may be a drive belt issue.I have recently begun hearing a tapping or knocking sound when the needle is tracking, in between tracks or during very quiet parts of tracks....More later,
Tour...
Vox Copuli
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb
"Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
"It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
"There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD -
Bruce when I spoke to VPI's customer service four years back they told me any good heavy motor oil grade would do just fine as long as I didn't go crazy . . . a drop on the shaft, one in the well and one on the bearing was what was recommended. I did that and it worked very well however, I was able to get a free bottle of VPI's bearing lube and used that. My next try is to clean out the well, bearing and shaft and use a bike chain lube that jm1 sent me. He raved about its benefits.
-
There is no "well" for an inverted bearing used by the newer VPI platters. This is why you need lithium grease or a high viscosity oil so it doesn't flow out of the inverted bearing mechanism leaving it dry.
Tour,
Follow the link for info. Corian rings like a bell so I would never use it for anything audio related.
Arthur SchopenhauerAll truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident. -
John, I'm having a brain **** here. My platter (TNT) is of the inverted bearing ilk. I"m sure Mike from VPI recommended a drop in the well or I could be thinking of my old MK II platter. UGH!!!! I hate it when I can't think straight!:frown::eek::biggrin:
-
This web page has a good picture of the inverted bearing you can "click" to zoom into.hearingimpared wrote: »John, I'm having a brain **** here. My platter (TNT) is of the inverted bearing ilk. I"m sure Mike from VPI recommended a drop in the well or I could be thinking of my old MK II platter. UGH!!!! I hate it when I can't think straight!:frown::eek::biggrin:
http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/38831/VPI-VPI_TNT_Super_Platter-Turntable_Upgrade
Arthur SchopenhauerAll truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident. -
Looking at the pic the TNT is not an inverted bearing shaft. I was wondering why Mike at VPI said the super platter wouldn't fit my TT, I thought it was because it was too big.
-
Okay,,today I'm off to get some sewing thread and lithium grease,,and will be practicint the bloodknot.Last night I did use the "talcum powder in a bag",,checked the speed,,and left the bag in the kitchen,,and I then hear this George,, as my wife had found the bag and wondered what it was,,I guess you had to be there to appreciate it,lol.JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
-
george daniel wrote: »Okay,,today I'm off to get some sewing thread and lithium grease,,and will be practicint the bloodknot.Last night I did use the "talcum powder in a bag",,checked the speed,,and left the bag in the kitchen,,and I then hear this George,, as my wife had found the bag and wondered what it was,,I guess you had to be there to appreciate it,lol.
Priceless! Thanks.
If you can't vary the Hz output frequency on the power supply, you will not be able to use thread drive as the platter will turn too sssllloooooowww.motor is connected to a medical grade transformer based PS
Arthur SchopenhauerAll truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident. -
hearingimpared wrote: »Looking at the pic the TNT is not an inverted bearing shaft. I was wondering why Mike at VPI said the super platter wouldn't fit my TT, I thought it was because it was too big.
All the current VPI platters use this same bearing. Not sure what you have.
Arthur SchopenhauerAll truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident. -
LOL I can picture that, gd.
Not even an inverted well? According to Stereophile they had one as recently as 2003. Even in newer models the shaft and the bearing that sits atop it slide into something Either that or VPI has invented one hell of a balancing actThere is no "well" for an inverted bearing used by the newer VPI platters. This is why you need lithium grease or a high viscosity oil so it doesn't flow out of the inverted bearing mechanism leaving it dry.stereophile.com 16 Feb 2003 wrote:The Scout has an inverted bearing, the well of which is machined from sintered bronze
Times change not long ago Corian was the rage for speaker baffles, arm boards, etc.Tour, Follow the link for info. Corian rings like a bell so I would never use it for anything audio related.
Got it laminated wood Do I see a hint of laminate lines running front to back? Appears to be a great number of 1/8 or so slats laying on their sides
One last Slick 50 thought I saw it mentioned in some AK posts, so it seems its not uncommon to use it for TTs. If it contains chloroparafins (as STP did), then Id stay away from it. I worked in a plant that made chlorowax in my younger days... nasty stuff. Corrosion inhibitors have to be added to tame it for use and most end uses are in fairly diluted state.More later,
Tour...
Vox Copuli
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb
"Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
"It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
"There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD -
I can't remember who told me to use Slick 50...but it was someone reputable...for the life of me can't remember though. That said, I've been using it since I got the first VPI.
Gotcha re the isolated motor and the platform it sits on.....and it's damn near impossible to eliminate all the sources of rumble. It's just the nature of the beast.
That is too funny about the powder. PRICELESS.
BDTI plan for the future. - F1Nut -
All the current VPI platters use this same bearing. Not sure what you have.
My TNT platter is not inverted John.
Doesn't the inverted bearing type have to fit in an inverted well? How else would it stay upright?
EDIT: Duh never mind the next post answered my question. -
I can't remember who told me to use Slick 50...but it was someone reputable...for the life of me can't remember though. That said, I've been using it since I got the first VPI.
Gotcha re the isolated motor and the platform it sits on.....and it's damn near impossible to eliminate all the sources of rumble. It's just the nature of the beast.
That is too funny about the powder. PRICELESS.
BDT
The worse offender for rumble is just the energy from the speakers hitting the TT/tonearm/cartridge. The only way around that is to have your turntable in another room. Back in the '80s I had my whole rig wire through a wall in another room to keep the airborne energy of the speakers (especially the SDA/SRSs) from hitting all the components.
Another cause which can be avoided that people bring upon themselves is closing the dust cover while listening to LPs. It's like sticking your head in a drum without playing it but the drum getting hit by the airborne energy of the rest of the band. -
Not even an inverted “well”? According to Stereophile they had one as recently as 2003. Even in newer models the shaft and the bearing that sits atop it slide into something… Either that or VPI has invented one hell of a balancing act…
The spindle mounts to the plinth and points upwards, the sleeve is set into the platter. Not sure I would call any part a well as this has other implications.
Arthur SchopenhauerAll truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident. -
Quiet on the set….. Places people….. Mark….
TurntableBusters Scene 23 Take 1
CLAP
… and ACTION
jm1: Not sure I would call any part a well as this has other implications.
Tour: First, who are those people behind you? Second, what implications??? Do you mean suffering communication accuracy through the use of turntable terminology that dates back to the 50’s? Or do you mean…
Dr. Peter Venkman: …the fact that this forum is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Tour: What do you mean, "biblical"?
Dr. Raymond Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Tour – real wrath-of-God type stuff! Fire and brimstone coming down from the sky! Rivers and seas boiling!
Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
Winston Zeddmore: The dead rising from the grave!
Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!
Tour: Enough! I get the point! And what if you're wrong? What if george has a bearing issue? Won’t he be risking further damage, if he does not clean the well that you at first said does not exist and now simply won't acknowledge because the term does not fit some self -imposed paradigm?
Dr. Peter Venkman: If we're wrong, then nothing happens. We go to jail, peacefully, quietly. We'll enjoy it. But if we're right, and we can stop this thing...Tour – [Tour looks at him incredulously.] you will have saved the lives of millions of registered CPer’s.
Cut..... That's a wrap.....More later,
Tour...
Vox Copuli
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb
"Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
"It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
"There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD -
Now this is entertainment,,where else can you find this short of Hollowood,,eh?
JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut) -
Quiet on the set .. Places people .. Mark .
TurntableBusters Scene 23 Take 1
CLAP
and ACTION
jm1: Not sure I would call any part a well as this has other implications.
Tour: First, who are those people behind you? Second, what implications??? Do you mean suffering communication accuracy through the use of turntable terminology that dates back to the 50s? Or do you mean
Dr. Peter Venkman: the fact that this forum is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Tour: What do you mean, "biblical"?
Dr. Raymond Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Tour real wrath-of-God type stuff! Fire and brimstone coming down from the sky! Rivers and seas boiling!
Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
Winston Zeddmore: The dead rising from the grave!
Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!
Tour: Enough! I get the point! And what if you're wrong? What if george has a bearing issue? Wont he be risking further damage, if he does not clean the well that you at first said does not exist and now simply won't acknowledge because the term does not fit some self -imposed paradigm?
Dr. Peter Venkman: If we're wrong, then nothing happens. We go to jail, peacefully, quietly. We'll enjoy it. But if we're right, and we can stop this thing...Tour [Tour looks at him incredulously.] you will have saved the lives of millions of registered CPers.
Cut..... That's a wrap.....
Well, I guess you know better.:rolleyes: Just don't pass on your knowledge by suggesting a low viscosity lubricant as there is nothing to keep the fluid between the sleeve and spindle.
Arthur SchopenhauerAll truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident.
