Powering LSi 7/9/15/25 - you better have preouts baby!

nguyendot

Alright guys,

we all know this has been asked so many times:
"I just purchased the LSi xx, will my 100w/channel Pioneer/Denon/whatever receiver power it?"

You have to ask yourself a few questions to answer your first one:

1. Do you like good sound?
2. Do you want to get the most out of your speakers, or just enough to hear them?
3. Do you have a fire extinguisher that is fully charged?
4. Did you allocate some of your total budged to a good amplifier?
5. Is your receiver DESIGNED (not just tolerant) for 4 ohm operation?

If you answered no to any of those (except #3), then yes you can use your receiver to power your LSi speakers.

It is pretty much a unanimous vote on the forums that to power your LSi speakers you need real power. This is power that can only be given by a dedicated amplifier, or a real integrated such as NAD which are designed to run 4 ohms.

Why do you ask? Well most receivers aren't rated to run at 4 ohms, and those that are "capable" do so by limiting the total current available, thereby restricting your performance. You also have the danger of overheating your amplifier, and toasting both it and your minty LSi's. Running a real amplifier such as an Adcom 555 or the like (take your pick as long as it's designed for 4 ohms) will give you the correct amount of power, both watts and amps to drive your speakers. Not only will you get the full quality from them, but you won't have the danger of overheating.

What's this about pre-outs you say? Well most people prefer to still use a receiver because they will want to use it in their home theater setup still, and for their ease of operation. To use an amplifier with your receiver, it needs to have PRE-OUTs for the channels you wish to add the amplifier too. Simply look on the back and look for preout connections for L/R/C/RS/LS and so on. If you only see sub preout, you don't have preouts at all and need to purchase a better receiver. Don't run out and just buy a new one, consider used ones of a higher caliber as well. That's another article to be written later.

On the budget part I mention if you allocated some to an amplifier. A lot of people go out and purchase the LSI's and don't think about what they'll power them with. This is akin to designing a Ferrari and only allocating 5% of the budget to designing the engine. When you purchase speakers, remember it's synergy of the system as a WHOLE that will give you the sound, not just the speakers themselves. Amplifiers range in price all across the spectrum. You can find nice used ones sometimes on the flea market for $200 if you're lucky, all the way up into the thousands for you crazy people who have more money than sense. What amp you pick is up to you - I'd search the forums for reviews as there are many. There's no sense in asking again, it's been answered so many times.

So in short - no your receiver isn't going to power your LSi's very well. If you want to get the most out of them, use a dedicated amplifier and let them do what they're made to do - sing. If you want to use your receiver, that's also fine. Just make sure it has preouts. Connected to an amp.

P.S. The fire extinguisher thing is no joke - if you drive LSi's too hard with a wimpy receiver, expect smoke at the least and a nice electrical fire at the most.

polkfan38

Awe, damn it!
Emotiva is a good inexpensive brand to look at. They have a pre/pro and a 5 channel amp that would be about $1,000 or so in total. About the same as a decent AVR.

jinjuku

polkfan38 wrote: »

Awe, damn it!
Emotiva is a good inexpensive brand to look at. They have a pre/pro and a 5 channel amp that would be about $1,000 or so in total. About the same as a decent AVR.

God knows I am in enough threads where their amps are getting needlessly bashed, but for heavens sake stay away from their Pre-Pro.

They couldn't even get the their 2 channel DAC correct out of the gate. Owners are having to send them back to the factory to get the gain stepping/ramp reprogrammed because the gain increments weren't 0.5dB. People were at 90dB at noon on the gain knob.

polkfan38

Nice. Thanks for the info. I was actually considering buying one. I guess you get what you pay for!

nguyendot

Need to make this a sticky for new comers (that was my plan).

Next thread as we had suggested previously:
Biamping with your receiver - you're just wasting wire, son.

polkfan38

Yup! Fads come and go. I tried this at a "high end" shop once. A/Bing bi wire and not bi wire. NO DIFFERENCE!
On a side note, what happened to using banana plugs? There seems to be a movement to spade type ends. Ug. I still use the old open end wire and sinch 'em down!

nguyendot

I switch speakers too often so using banana plugs is much more convenient. Open wire was a pita, and spades still requires me to unlock the nuts.

If I didn't buy and sell speakers like people chew gum, I wouldn't have that problem.

polkfan38

That's awesome! Which model was/is your favorite?

vmaxer

Okay, I am going to ask a dumb question here. My nephew is wanting to buy a set of LSi15's from me, but currently only has a Onkyo TX-SR607 receiver. He asked me if he set his receiver to cross over the bass below 80Hz to his sub could he get by for a while until he can get something better to power them. I really don't know, I have heard of others using receivers for these speakers, but I never have.

So, any advise

Is it a bad idea no matter how they are hooked up?? He also said his receiver was capable of bi-amping them... I am not up to date on this receiver, so I thought I would ask.

Thanks

txcoastal1

Need an entire section named and dedicated for beginners full of sticky's like this...IMO
It sure have helped me right from the get go

Ron

txcoastal1

vmaxer wrote: »

Okay, I am going to ask a dumb question here. My nephew is wanting to buy a set of LSi15's from me, but currently only has a Onkyo TX-SR607 receiver. He asked me if he set his receiver to cross over the bass below 80Hz to his sub could he get by for a while until he can get something better to power them. I really don't know, I have heard of others using receivers for these speakers, but I never have.

So, any advise

Is it a bad idea no matter how they are hooked up?? He also said his receiver was capable of bi-amping them... I am not up to date on this receiver, so I thought I would ask.

Thanks

If you control your play while shopping around for an amp you are fine...if you are concerned your nephew will abuse and want to show off after being told then scratch my suggestion

eclimax13

man i just wish people would stop saying the lsi's are the like the ferrari of speakers :rolleyes:...this is the second time ive heard this analogy...everything else i agree with

Monster Jam

eclimax13 wrote: »

man i just wish people would stop saying the lsi's are the like the ferrari of speakers :rolleyes:...this is the second time ive heard this analogy...everything else i agree with

I totally agree with you. LSi speakers are NOT the Ferrari of speakers! They are the Maybach of speakers damn it!!!

tonyb

vmaxer wrote: »

Okay, I am going to ask a dumb question here. My nephew is wanting to buy a set of LSi15's from me, but currently only has a Onkyo TX-SR607 receiver. He asked me if he set his receiver to cross over the bass below 80Hz to his sub could he get by for a while until he can get something better to power them. I really don't know, I have heard of others using receivers for these speakers, but I never have.

So, any advise

Is it a bad idea no matter how they are hooked up?? He also said his receiver was capable of bi-amping them... I am not up to date on this receiver, so I thought I would ask.

Thanks

Bad idea, the 607 isn't near what it takes to drive the LSI 15's. Also a bad idea bi-amping from a receiver, bad idea on top of bad idea equals crappy results.

nguyendot

eclimax13 wrote: »

man i just wish people would stop saying the lsi's are the like the ferrari of speakers :rolleyes:...this is the second time ive heard this analogy...everything else i agree with

I could have just said car and the analogy would have had the same effect.

eclimax13

Monster Jam wrote: »

I totally agree with you. LSi speakers are NOT the Ferrari of speakers! They are the Maybach of speakers damn it!!!

Hahaha

vmaxer

tonyb wrote: »

Bad idea, the 607 isn't near what it takes to drive the LSI 15's. Also a bad idea bi-amping from a receiver, bad idea on top of bad idea equals crappy results.

Thanks, that's what I thought, but thought I would ask since I don't really know anything about the receiver he has.

He is just starting to get back into this since he recently bought a house and can now play at decent volumes.

comfortablycurt

vmaxer wrote: »

Okay, I am going to ask a dumb question here. My nephew is wanting to buy a set of LSi15's from me, but currently only has a Onkyo TX-SR607 receiver. He asked me if he set his receiver to cross over the bass below 80Hz to his sub could he get by for a while until he can get something better to power them. I really don't know, I have heard of others using receivers for these speakers, but I never have.

So, any advise

Is it a bad idea no matter how they are hooked up?? He also said his receiver was capable of bi-amping them... I am not up to date on this receiver, so I thought I would ask.

Thanks

I've got an Onkyo 606, and I'd be very hesitant about driving LSi's with it.

If he ACTUALLY does stay out of the volume knob...it would be alright as a temporary fix IMO. I've driven my SDA 2A's with my 606 successfully...if I got too high on the volume though it started heating up quick.

Bi-amping them would be a waste of time IMO.

Setting the crossover to 80hz or 100hz or so would help, since the 607 wouldn't have to drive those lower bass frequencies.

winterwinter307

comfortablycurt wrote: »

I've got an Onkyo 606, and I'd be very hesitant about driving LSi's with it.

If he ACTUALLY does stay out of the volume knob...it would be alright as a temporary fix IMO. I've driven my SDA 2A's with my 606 successfully...if I got too high on the volume though it started heating up quick.

Bi-amping them would be a waste of time IMO.

Setting the crossover to 80hz or 100hz or so would help, since the 607 wouldn't have to drive those lower bass frequencies.

Onkyo 606? looks great stuff for sure.

nguyendot

winterwinter307 wrote: »

Onkyo 606? looks great stuff for sure.

Thanks for the wonderful contribution.. your comment was absolutely useful, not.

vmaxer

nguyendot wrote: »

Thanks for the wonderful contribution.. your comment was absolutely useful, not.

Yep, you go man!!!!

comfortablycurt

winterwinter307 wrote: »

Onkyo 606? looks great stuff for sure.

I guess...it's basically just an entry level receiver. A good one as far as entry level receivers go...but it is what it is. It's only used for watching an occasional DVD...all of my music listening is on my 2 channel rig.

All in all, I wouldn't recommend using a 606(or 607) to drive LSi's, or any 4 ohm speakers. As I said above, you could get away with it as a temporary solution, but you'd be pushing the 607 to its limits.

cfrizz

winterwinter307 wrote: »

Onkyo 606? looks great stuff for sure.

Welcome Winter. I think you need to do some research on here, before you go recommending a receiver that doesn't have preouts to run the power hungry LSI speakers.

The Onkyo 606 does NOT have the power that is needed to drive the LSI's to their full potential. It would sound weak and anemic, and to try to cure it you would try turning up the volume which would only cause the receiver to go into protect mode before it burned itself out.

The LSI's require a separate amplifier to get the best out of them. That means quite a bit more money is going to have to be spent to get a more expensive receiver that has preouts and then getting a separate amp as well.

So unless you are willing to spend that money to make sure that the LSI's have what they need to run to their full potential, it is better to purchase less hungry speakers.

mdaudioguy

^^^ You are absolutely correct, but it's unclear what Mr. Winter is up to- Join, and then make 5 useless posts in 3 minutes...

nguyendot

Shameless bump

nguyendot

Bump again - time to refresh some noobs

tonyb

nguyendot wrote: »

Bump again - time to refresh some noobs

Not trying to burst your good intentions, but imho, you wasting your time. Even if it was a sticky, you'd get 2 post bellow it asking the very questions your trying to reduce. Been around here over 10 years, and the same questions will and do come up over and over. It's the nature of the beast. Used to bug me too, but hey, this is an audio forum and not everyone takes the time to use the search feature to find an answer. It's quicker to just post a question I guess. I don't mind it so much anymore except when the same question gets asked in the same day one or two threads up from the previous same question.

Look gents, not everyone is on the same level of know how in this hobby and we can't assume they all know the basics. We try and help as many and as often as needed, with courtesy and a smile, though I myself will admit thats not always possible. Just try and use some patience and understanding is all I'm saying.

nguyendot

I didn't see any one ask per se, I just like to bump it every so often for those tactful enough to search first, ask second.

obsidian

Hi,

I have LSi15 fronts, LSiC center and LSiFX surrounds currently connected to an older Sony STR-DA1000ES (100W per channel, discrete). While I understand this isn't ideal for these power hungry 4ohm speakers it seems to get plenty loud for me. Watching movies max volume we go to is ~-24dB...tv viewing around ~-32dB.

I've recently upgraded my other HT components (TV, etc) and wanted to upgrade to a newer receiver. In researching what works good with the LSi's I of course often read, get a separate amp! So, here's my question -- if I don't go beyond volume levels on the receiver that cause distortion or shutdown, will more power and separate amplification really improve sound quality? I was discussing this was a friend and he insists that it would only help if I wanted to play at louder volumes with less distortion...which I don't really care about. I just want better sound quality at my current volume levels. Is this correct or will separate amps somehow provide better sound at the same volume levels? If so, could someone please explain why?

P.S. I've been looking at Denon 2112CI and Onkyo NR-709 AVRs...anyone have specific experience running LSi's from them?

Thanks

B Run

obsidian wrote: »

I was discussing this was a friend and he insists that it would only help if I wanted to play at louder volumes with less distortion...which I don't really care about. I just want better sound quality at my current volume levels. Is this correct or will separate amps somehow provide better sound at the same volume levels? If so, could someone please explain why?

P.S. I've been looking at Denon 2112CI and Onkyo NR-709 AVRs...anyone have specific experience running LSi's from them?

Thanks

Your friend couldn't be more incorrect honestly. I don't think any of those receivers are even rated to drive 4ohm speakers, and it can damage them. You really should look into a nice receiver with preouts and a used amp. It'll be a night and day difference in sound quality, it's not just about volume.

nguyendot

It's not a matter of louder, it's a matter of better. You lose a lot of dynamic range as the Sony ES you have now is current-limiting. If you get any deep lows (which is not 100% dependent on volume), the receiver will current-limit and you will have a loss of quality.
It's not going to hurt you, but you are not running 100% of what the speakers are capable of, and can possibly damage your speakers given the right circumstances. The Sony ES receivers were only designed to tolerate 4 ohm loads, not run effectively with them. I had a 555ES and it worked with 4 ohm loads (Magnepans), however switching to a dedicated amplifier opened them up to their full potential. Remember, it's not just volume, it's dynamic headroom, and current. Also - your receiver isn't really discrete, since it still only has one power supply shared among all the amplifiers in it. No receiver really is.