What is your TT rig?

steveinaz

Haven't heard a TT in about 25yrs...it comes with the Pro-ject RM-5SE.

madmax

You will probably find the preamp makes more difference than anything else. At least that has been my experience. I've tried several different ones along the way. Nothing like vinyl, thats for sure.
madmax

hearingimpared

steveinaz wrote: »

Looks like the 640p has a sensitivity (for a 300mV output) of .5-1.0mV for MC, 3-5mV for MM. The Sumiko Blue point No2 has a 2.5mV output--so I'd imagine the MM input would be best, giving up some gain however. Gain is 39dB MM, 55dB MC.

Is this assumption correct?

Sounds just about on the head of the nail!

hearingimpared

steveinaz wrote: »

Haven't heard a TT in about 25yrs...it comes with the Pro-ject RM-5SE.

Steve, it seems you have your heart set on the Pro-ject. Don't limit yourself to just it, not that there is anything wrong with it. Keep your options open and let Stephen Monte be your guide, I think you will be well pleased.

hearingimpared

madmax wrote: »

You will probably find the preamp makes more difference than anything else. At least that has been my experience. I've tried several different ones along the way. Nothing like vinyl, thats for sure.
madmax

Now that is worthy signature material!

steveinaz

hearingimpared wrote: »

Steve, it seems you have your heart set on the Pro-ject. Don't limit yourself to just it, not that there is anything wrong with it. Keep your options open and let Stephen Monte be your guide, I think you will be well pleased.

Absolutely, just a plan "B". I'll definitely talk with him before doing anything--I just don't want to go overboard on something I'm not sure I'm going to be committed to.

madmax

steveinaz wrote: »

I just don't want to go overboard on something I'm not sure I'm going to be committed to.

Going overboard with something that may or may not please you is the essence of vinyl. :biggrin:

Dawgfish

I'm running a Technics SL-1200 Mk2 with most of the KAB USA mods, Dynovector 20XH cartridge with Soundsmith upgraded cantilever and stylus, and a Jolida JD-9 phono Pre with RCA tubes. It sounds fantastic! It's detailed yet-warm, and has great imaging and soundstage. Frankly I couldn't be happier with my setup and feel no need to upgrade. I would have to spend a lot more than what I have in my current set-up to get small gains. I think I'm going to use the money saved on that to upgrade my interconnects and speaker wire instead, and maybe go to a full tube amp over the tube/solid state amp I'm currently using.

shack

steveinaz wrote:

I just don't want to go overboard on something I'm not sure I'm going to be committed to.

You've been here long enough to know that this group will have you going from zero to warp speed in a single step. There have been several on this forum that have leaped into vinyl and decided it is not for them...for whatever reason. IMO starting with one of the modest TTs is the way to go. Even the entry level TTs from the likes Pro-Ject, Rega or Music Hall are as good, if not better, than some of the "good" tables from the past. If you start with one of these and really like it...then you can sell it and move up. If you don't...sell it and walk away. Either way you can get a good vinyl "tryout" and your $ risk is minimal.

madmax

Buy used and anything you don't like you can trade back into the market. If you can't get over this "new is better" idea you could put together the perfect system, make sure it is exactly what you want, sell it to get all your money back and then buy new replacements. I was going to go this route for awhile with my stuff but then realized the downside of replacing with new: double the cost, burn in time and no other real benifit.
madmax

shack

madmax wrote:

Buy used and anything you don't like you can trade back into the market. If you can't get over this "new is better" idea you could put together the perfect system, make sure it is exactly what you want, sell it to get all your money back and then buy new replacements. I was going to go this route for awhile with my stuff but then realized the downside of replacing with new: double the cost, burn in time and no other real benifit.
madmax

I don't disgree that used is a good alternative, but a used TT is probably one of the most difficult pieces of audio gear to purchase used if you are not familiar with the "nuts and bolts" and what to look for. It doesn't take much for a "nice" TT to perform badly and the learning curve is steep for a novice. Most of the new "plug and play" models take that issue off the table. Used is definitely a buyer beware proposition.

madmax

shack wrote: »

I don't disgree that used is a good alternative, but a used TT is probably one of the most difficult pieces of audio gear to purchase used if you are not familiar with the "nuts and bolts" and what to look for. It doesn't take much for a "nice" TT to perform badly and the learning curve is steep for a novice. Most of the new "plug and play" models take that issue off the table. Used is definitely a buyer beware proposition.

However, for a fee you can take it to a high end shop and they will set up for you. And with all the talent here, how can you make bad decisions!

steveinaz

shack wrote: »

IMO starting with one of the modest TTs is the way to go. Even the entry level TTs from the likes Pro-Ject, Rega or Music Hall are as good, if not better, than some of the "good" tables from the past. If you start with one of these and really like it...then you can sell it and move up. If you don't...sell it and walk away. Either way you can get a good vinyl "tryout" and your $ risk is minimal.

Exactly Shack, that's where my head is right now. I'm not new to vinyl, so I know what to expect---to a degree---but, it's been many years, and my equipment is far better, albeit different sounding from what I had in my TT days. I'm trying to strike a balance where I'm not blowing a ton, but still end up with a system I won't feel like I'll need to unload. $1500-$2000 seems to be a TT sweet-spot for the blue-collar audiophile, but I don't think I'll need that good of a table to enjoy vinyl. I never owned a table more than $699 (I think my Yamaha PX-3 was the most expensive), but also owned the Pioneer PL-1000 (also linear tracking), and Yamaha PF-800.

The other point to consider also, is that most TT's in the $1500-$2000 range DO NOT include a cartridge--so they are actually in the $2000-$2500 range, when you think about it...arrggg. The possible exception being the Clearaudio Concept, which is $1500 w/a MM cartridge.

madmax

steveinaz wrote: »

The other point to consider also, is that most TT's in the $1500-$2000 range DO NOT include a cartridge--so they are actually in the $2000-$2500 range, when you think about it...arrggg. QUOTE]

Ha ha, and the $3000 to $8000 range doesn't include a cartridge OR a tone arm so they are in the $6000 to 11,000 range. :biggrin:

Edit: If you pay enough you will get an empty box.

shack

If I was looking to buy a new TT in the $1,500 range I would probably go for a Marantz Reference Series TT-15S1 (a rebadged Clearaudio Emotion) like mhardy6647's:



There may be better, but I like Clearaudio TTs.

steveinaz

Now I'm leaning VERY hard towards the Clearaudio Concept. I'm reading alot about hum problems with Pro-ject, reliability problems with MMF, and Rega leaves out too many key features for the price tag (P3-24).

Now, before you Pro-ject, MMF, and Rega owners burn me to a crisp; YES, I realize that everyone has problems once in awhile, however, there are very repeatable and serious trends with the Pro-ject issues from the forums I have been on--I see a pattern, plain & simple. Same with MMF, but to a lesser degree; it goes something like this..."after the first year my motor started making noises....." The Rega's limitations are well known (No VTA, and shims are pricey) this just shouldn't "be" on a $1000 turntable, I don't care what your brand name is. My $600 1980's Yamaha had tone arm height adjustment capability. Though reliability seems to be a mainstay with Rega--so if I do stay under $1500, it'll be the Rega.

steveinaz

That Marantz/Clearaudio hybrid looks nice Shack.

blakeh

I agree with what some of the previous posters have stated about buying a used table. If you're not heavily into vinyl, you may not know what to look for as far as alignment and mechanics go. I don't think that means that you should write a used table off completely, but if you think you've found a good deal, have a shop that does TT work take a look at it for you.

I have been a CD guy my whole life. I collected about 400 80s 12" singles over the years, but for the past decade I haven't had anything to play them on. I lucked out when Rich (SCompRacer) mentioned that he might be selling his Yamaha YP-D10 table about six months ago. Rich is the most knowledgeable guy I know when it comes to TTs and he came over to my house and helped me set everything up. I knew I was buying it from a trusted source and knew it was taken care of.

I was in the exact same boat you're in. In my case, I didn't want to spend much more than about $600 on a table and phono preamp because I wasn't sure how much I'd actually use it. I still listen to my Squeezebox Touch 90% of the time, but it's nice to know I have a very decent table for vinyl when I want to spin it.

jm1

I had a request for a picture of the new plinth while it was bare wood so I thought I would share with everyone. It needs a good fine sanding then the finish can be applied. Did not grain/color match the maple as it will be a deep black semi gloss varnish.

SCompRacer

blakeh wrote: »

....Yamaha YP-D10 table .....

Thanks for the kind words Blake! That DD Yamaha with the heavy wood base is an extremely high quality table. It more than holds its own among present day tables. It sports a very powerful motor, has a dead quiet drive system with rock solid speed and a tonearm with adjustable azimuth and VTA.

FTGV

That old Yammy looks absolutely mint.

tonyb

That Yamaha looks fantastic. Did Rich even use the thing ? Looks brand frickin' new.

shack

Keiko wrote:

Just curious, how did that PL100 project turn out, Steve?

I got it working, put an Ortofon cart on it and hooked it up in a vintage Pioneer rig. Sounded decent...but I think it needs a new belt. It seemed to lag a bit. When my daughter moved back in I needed to take that rig down for the room, so it has been a while since I played with it.

blakeh

Rich took pristine care of it. It's one of the nicest examples of a table from that era that I've seen. Even the dust cover is near mint. I throw an album on and sweet music comes out!

I'm not posting this to brag about the table, but rather to relay how well Rich takes care of his equipment! It's nice that there are still people out there who take care of their gear.

hearingimpared

blakeh wrote: »

I agree with what some of the previous posters have stated about buying a used table. If you're not heavily into vinyl, you may not know what to look for as far as alignment and mechanics go. I don't think that means that you should write a used table off completely, but if you think you've found a good deal, have a shop that does TT work take a look at it for you.

I have been a CD guy my whole life. I collected about 400 80s 12" singles over the years, but for the past decade I haven't had anything to play them on. I lucked out when Rich (SCompRacer) mentioned that he might be selling his Yamaha YP-D10 table about six months ago. Rich is the most knowledgeable guy I know when it comes to TTs and he came over to my house and helped me set everything up. I knew I was buying it from a trusted source and knew it was taken care of.

I was in the exact same boat you're in. In my case, I didn't want to spend much more than about $600 on a table and phono preamp because I wasn't sure how much I'd actually use it. I still listen to my Squeezebox Touch 90% of the time, but it's nice to know I have a very decent table for vinyl when I want to spin it.

FTGV wrote: »

That old Yammy looks absolutely mint.

Keiko wrote: »

I like it! :cool: :biggrin:

tonyb wrote: »

That Yamaha looks fantastic. Did Rich even use the thing ? Looks brand frickin' new.

Every piece of audio gear Rich touches turns to gold.

steveinaz

Shack
Music Direct has 2 demo model Marantz TT-15S1's, one is a "demo" at $1125, the other is marked as a "show piece" for $1275.

I'm liking this table too, comes with an outstanding cartridge. It's on my "list."

Just an FYI

TroyD

With the Pro-Ject and the Music Hall's....I mean, hell, they are Eastern-Bloc products, so I think the quality issues are a given.

Now, I personally, have little experience with Rega tables, but, I'll take a well built, simple table any day. For a newbie, the Rega P1, you can't get more simple....and by all accounts, a great sounding table. As far as VTA and stuff like that.....pffffft. Not something I'd get wrapped around the axle about, but that's just me.

BDT

strider

I've got a Project Debut III that's stock except for an upgraded platter; it's hooked up to a Hagerman Bugle. I think I have $500 into the while shooting match.

There's really not a bunch of upgrades available for the table, which is good because IMO spending $500 upgrading a $300 TT is not the best way to spend your audio $. If I were doing it over I'd spend more upfront on something that had more upgrades and adjustments, like one of the Clearaudio or VPI models.

mhardy6647

steveinaz wrote: »

Shack
Music Direct has 2 demo model Marantz TT-15S1's, one is a "demo" at $1125, the other is marked as a "show piece" for $1275.

I'm liking this table too, comes with an outstanding cartridge. It's on my "list."

Just an FYI

Good prices; very good value (and, of course, I am very biased).

steveinaz

I REALLY like the Marantz. Adjustable tonearm, isolated motor, excellent build quality, and damn fine cartridge. I think I may have found the "just right" combination, even at it's $1499 typical price.