Would you support a memorial for war dogs?

Danny Tse

I was listening to this story on NPR today and was thinking about the contributions of dogs to our military. It just makes me sad that some feel that these war dogs are nothing more than another tool used in war. Of course, the story also reminded me of the dog that saved our soldiers from a suicide bomber in Afghanistan, only to be accidentally put to sleep here in the US. I suppose a permanent memorial for these K9 heroes is the least we can do.

bobman1235

Look, I love dogs. But at the same time, they can't see a memorial. They have no idea that a memorial is being built in their honor. SO I have a hard time justifying such a thing. It's not like their kids are going to go visit it.

mrbiron

I will only if they pay homage to "Chips the War Dog"......

nooshinjohn

Surely, you can't be serious...

F1nut

Put me in the come on, they're just animals.

Demiurge

Danny Tse wrote: »

I was listening to NPR .

I think we found the source of your problem.

exalted512

bobman1235 wrote: »

Look, I love dogs. But at the same time, they can't see a memorial. They have no idea that a memorial is being built in their honor. SO I have a hard time justifying such a thing. It's not like their kids are going to go visit it.

x2.

I could support a fund to help war dogs find good homes if they needed...and some dog biscuits, but thats about it.
-Cody

ben62670

bobman1235 wrote: »

Look, I love dogs. But at the same time, they can't see a memorial. They have no idea that a memorial is being built in their honor. SO I have a hard time justifying such a thing. It's not like their kids are going to go visit it.

Same thoughts here Bob.

hearingimpared

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Surely, you can't be serious...

I am! . . . and don't call me Shirly!:biggrin:

shack

On 21 July 1994, a War Dog Memorial was dedicated at the US Marine Corps War Dog Cemetery on Guam, to honor the dogs that served in the Pacific Theater during World War II. In the battle for Guam (21 July to 10 August 1944) a Doberman named Kurt saved the lives of 250 Marines when he warned them of Japanese troops ahead. Kurt is honored by a life-sized bronze and granite at the War Dog Memorial on Guam. Carved into the stone are names of twenty-five other Dobermans who gave their lives liberating the island and who are buried nearby.

I know this because The University of Tennessee, which has one of only 28 veterinary colleges in the nation (and one of the most difficult to gain admission) has an exact replica of this memorial on it's campus.

hearingimpared

bobman1235 wrote: »

Look, I love dogs. But at the same time, they can't see a memorial. They have no idea that a memorial is being built in their honor. SO I have a hard time justifying such a thing. It's not like their kids are going to go visit it.

Interesting Bob. I've visited several memorials and none of my parents, relatives or friends were involved or memorialized.

Toolfan66

More wasted money IMO..

shack

United States War Dogs Memorial


Dedicated on June 10, 2006, the United States War Dogs Memorial, located guarding the gateway to the New Jersey Vietnam Veterans' Memorial in Holmdel, New Jersey, consists of a bronze statue of a kneeling Vietnam War soldier and his dog, set on a black granite base. The memorial was designed by sculptor Bruce Lindsay, Architectural Division Manager at Johnson Atelier in Mercerville, New Jersey. A graduate of Bucknell University, Lindsay's studio is adjacent to Grounds for Sculpture, the 22-acre sculpture park on the grounds of the former New Jersey State Fair. The U.S. War Dogs Memorial, while directly representing the War Dog Teams of the Vietnam War, honors all our nation's war dogs and their handlers - past, present and future.

shack

TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote:

More wasted money IMO..

More often than not, these memorials have been funded by the soldiers and the families of soldiers who worked with (and depended on) these animals during the most difficult times of their lives. Tell them their money was wasted.

nooshinjohn

shack wrote: »

More often than not, these memorials have been funded by the soldiers and the families of soldiers who worked with (and depended on) these animals during the most difficult times of their lives. Tell them their money was wasted.

If funded entirely from PRIVATE FUNDS and by the warrior's and their families... build as many as you like. If tax dollars are used, I would rather we spend that money elsewhere.

SolidSqual

actually considering where tax dollars have been spend lately, I might not mind it spent here.

Toolfan66

shack wrote: »

More often than not, these memorials have been funded by the soldiers and the families of soldiers who worked with (and depended on) these animals during the most difficult times of their lives. Tell them their money was wasted.

I get that but how many soldiers come home with out a pot to piss in? and other soldiers and family members are pissing money away on this?

Their money is wasted. Some day we all die and that memorial will mean nothing and that money could have helped out another soilder in a big way to live a better life..

shack

SolidSqual wrote:

actually considering where tax dollars have been spend lately, I might not mind it spent here.

Agreed...and if it means something to the men and women who served or the families of fallen soldiers...it is a small price to pay...and I would rather my tax dollars go for something like this rather than many of the expenditures that go things that are much more trivial IMO.

shack

TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote:

I get that but how many soldiers come home with out a pot to piss in? and other soldiers and family members are pissing money away on this?

Their money is wasted. Some day we all die and that memorial will mean nothing and that money could have helped out another soilder in a big way to live a better life..

BFD...if our government didn't waste billions upon billions of dollars on things much more trivial...you might have a case.

I guess all the war memorals are waste as well. After all...that money could have gone to needy soldiers...right?

The money spent by our govt. for the family of a President (ANY PRESIDENT) for a single "vacation", to any of the spots in the world they travel to could pay for hundreds of these memorials. We could go on and on.

These war dog memorials aren't about the dogs per se...they are about the relationship between these animals and the soldiers. It means something to them...And I am ok with it.

tonyb

Gez Guys, maybe an example would be better. Lets just say you have a dog. One day, your house is on fire,the dog runs back into the house to drag out your kid. Maybe a few years later, the same dog saves the same kid from drowning in a lake. Move on a few more years, the same dog takes a bullet from a gang banger aiming at your kid. Now, when that dog dies, you want to tell me you wouldn't put something extra on his grave to recognize this stellar animal ?
A small memorial to the great achievements of man's best friend is very little to give in return for what they provide.....even if a few studies of the effects of cocaine on monkeys has to suffer.

BTW, Shack is smack dead on.

Tony M

I think each military base could have a memorial for the dogs that have been trained and served the soldiers from those perticular bases.

I know police dogs are respected with high regard here in wilm..
I've seen the skills between trainer and these dogs up close and it's amazing..

The dog would go into a fire if the trainer tells it to.

Toolfan66

Well it's not like I'm not with you on the wasted money of the goverment I agree with you!!! but that was not the topic here now was it?? How offen do you think these guys visit these memorials?? on average once twice a year maybe??

Let me put it this way if I was a soldier I would rather my money help a soldier in need.. But thats just me.

For the record I do understand what your saying as well..

shack wrote: »

BFD...if our government didn't waste billions upon billions of dollars on things much more trivial...you might have a case.

I guess all the war memorals are waste as well. After all...that money could have gone to needy soldiers...right?

The money spent by our govt. for the family of a President (ANY PRESIDENT) for a single "vacation", to any of the spots in the world they travel to could pay for hundreds of these memorials. We could go on and on.

These war dog memorials aren't about the dogs per se...they are about the relationship between these animals and the soldiers. It means something to them...And I am ok with it.

bobman1235

It's a perfectly valid opinion to think they should be built. Those dogs do great things, and honoring them isn't a bad thing. It's just... if you really think about it, it's just a little silly. If people are coming back from war and say they want it, who are we to argue? But if it's just something someone thought would be nice... meh. It is nice, but far from necessary.

fatchowmein

I would support a memorial for war dogs. It's not for the dogs. These memorials are for the people of this nation to serve as a reminder of the sacrifices made and to help flesh out the story.

I don't want to just study the history of the major players in WWII or Vietnam or Desert Storm. I want to read, see, and hear about the stories all the way down to the individual or squad level and if those stories include Kurt saving 250 soldiers then I am more than happy to support such a memorial because it's all about the human condition and sometimes that means including man's best friend.

Thanks, Shack.

tonyb

Man, don't even get me started on whats "necessary" and whats not in this country. Doing the right thing isn't always a necessity. If the boys in uniform wish it, it's the least we could do because god knows we don't do a whole hell of alot for them when they come home.

shack

bobman1235 wrote:

If people are coming back from war and say they want it, who are we to argue? But if it's just something someone thought would be nice... meh. It is nice, but far from necessary.

Everything I read seems to say it is about the soldiers...both as benefactors and proponents of these memorials.

From War-Dogs.com

WAR DOG MEMORIAL - May 8, 2004 at 1:00PM

There is no group of veterans prouder than the dog handlers --- or more properly it is pride in their dogs. Thirty-five or forty years after being in combat with their closest buddy they will shoot out their dog's Preston Brand number (serial number) without missing a beat. On May 8, 2004 at 1:00PM a pedestal with the names and Preston Brand numbers of all dogs KIA (killed in action) since World War II will be unveiled. A naval bell will be rung as each name is announced. And that bell will be tolled over 400 times; once for each dog KIA since World War II.

There are two War Dog Memorials; one at March Air Force Base, CA and the other at The Infantry School, Ft. Benning, GA. Californian Jeffery Bennett put the War Dog Memorial project together. They are two identical enormous bronzes of a dog and its handler in Vietnam-era combat gear.

The Georgia memorial is the one that will have the unveiling. This pedestal is one of twelve pedestals paid for by the different dog handling units. They are separate and apart from the actual memorial.

The dynamo behind the pedestals is Sfc. Jesse S. Mendez (USA Ret.), a 21-year Army veteran who served three tours in Vietnam. Mendez now, as he was when on active duty, is obsessed with training. "Realistic combat training" is the phrase the military uses and the sergeant made sure that the men and dogs that he trained were combat ready. No government money was used in the Memorial or the pedestals. Each group, representing various dog handling groups raised the money for "their" pedestal. Mendez organized and put together the twelve pedestals and their content.

Speaking at the memorial giving an overview of the military dog-training program will be Captain Haggerty. Haggerty, a two-time graduate of The Infantry School's OCS and Ranger School also commanded the 26th Infantry Scout dog platoon at Benning, in addition to a number of other dog assignments. The Captain is perhaps better known as an actor, author and animal trainer, to which he would proudly add, soldier. His head will be bowed as the bell tolls the dogs that gave their lives for the United States.

newrival

bobman1235 wrote: »

Look, I love dogs. But at the same time, they can't see a memorial. They have no idea that a memorial is being built in their honor. SO I have a hard time justifying such a thing. It's not like their kids are going to go visit it.

Truth be told, I'm somewhat indifferent on this. However, this is a ridiculous comment. The memorial isn't so dogs feel better about their race. I mean dogs can't even read, can they? :rolleyes:

mrbigbluelight

fatchowmein wrote: »

I would support a memorial for war dogs. It's not for the dogs. These memorials are for the people of this nation to serve as a reminder of the sacrifices made and to help flesh out the story.

I don't want to just study the history of the major players in WWII or Vietnam or Desert Storm. I want to read, see, and hear about the stories all the way down to the individual or squad level and if those stories include Kurt saving 250 soldiers then I am more than happy to support such a memorial because it's all about the human condition and sometimes that means including man's best friend.

Thanks, Shack.

Well put.

If this were to take away funding from VA Hospitals, I'd say no.
But it doesn't. Nor should it. (Won't go into a diatribe about that issue).

But if ONE soldier, or ONE soldier's family, or ONE soldier's friend finds some comfort or solace in the bronze memorial at ANY point in time, it's worth it. IMO.
If ONE citizen is prompted to ask questions regarding the bronze memorial, and the circumstances behind it, it's worth it. IMO.

If privately funded, it shouldn't have to be.
If publically funded, ... so be it. It should be.

dorokusai

My Dad was a K9/Bomb Unit (MPDC)DC Police Officer for 25 years, among other assignments, and the work of his multiple dogs protected Presidents let alone private individuals on a daily basis.

Working dogs are a valuable resource to most but we considered them family in our broken home. Do they need a memorial? I voted No but am unsure in the minority since where does it stop if that happens. There are animals, mainly canine based, that do a tremendous amount of work in many areas and provide a selfless service to many individuals across the globe.

I'm not sure what the eventual outcome will be but realize that dogs often go where others do not, they find people that others have given up on and they have given their lives, just like any other man, woman, soldier or LEO....or the individual using them for protection or guidance.

It's not always a soldier that rely on the canine...it's often a handler, brother, grandmother or child. I think it's much bigger than war per se. If it's just for that, than NO I don't support it at all.

Will we have a memorial to penguins? I doubt it but they are kinda cool. As far as memorials go, where does it end but I have a huge respect for the dog, the canine.

Shep, Joe, Haywire RIP.

messiah

shack wrote: »

BFD...if our government didn't waste billions upon billions of dollars on things much more trivial...you might have a case.

I guess all the war memorals are waste as well. After all...that money could have gone to needy soldiers...right?

The money spent by our govt. for the family of a President (ANY PRESIDENT) for a single "vacation", to any of the spots in the world they travel to could pay for hundreds of these memorials. We could go on and on.

These war dog memorials aren't about the dogs per se...they are about the relationship between these animals and the soldiers. It means something to them...And I am ok with it.

I couldn't agree more. We (as a country) waste so much money every year on complete crap that it's not even funny. Let's take NASA for example. Their budget this year is just shy of 19 billion dollars. What did they do with 19 billion dollars? They found a new life form. Was it a good one? I guess it's great if you like bacteria that can live in an environment that would kill a human instantly. Did they find it in someplace cool, like Mars, or Jupiter? Uh, no. They found it in California. Did that help anyone? Nope. If NASA would do something useful, like turn that stupid telescope toward the earth and actually fin Bin f'n Laden, then they would earn their 19 billion dollars. Instead they are trying to figure out if Pluto is really a planet or not. And yet you would oppose a couple hundred thousand spent on fallen soldiers?

shack

messiah wrote:

I couldn't agree more. We (as a country) waste so much money every year on complete crap that it's not even funny. Let's take NASA for example. Their budget this year is just shy of 19 billion dollars. What did they do with 19 billion dollars? They found a new life form. Was it a good one? I guess it's great if you like bacteria that can live in an environment that would kill a human instantly. Did they find it in someplace cool, like Mars, or Jupiter? Uh, no. They found it in California. Did that help anyone? Nope. If NASA would do something useful, like turn that stupid telescope toward the earth and actually fin Bin f'n Laden, then they would earn their 19 billion dollars. Instead they are trying to figure out if Pluto is really a planet or not. And yet you would oppose a couple hundred thousand spent on fallen soldiers?

I'm glad you agree with me on that point...but regardless...I cannot agree with you on NASA. Hell, I would double or tripple thier budget in a heartbeat. If you look at the technology we use everyday that came about because of NASA, they may be one of the best investments we have ever made as a country. NASA was definitely not on my list of wasteful, trivial spending...but that is for another thread...so let's not go there on this one.