Choosing a DAC

drselect

Ok I am looking for a DAC. I will be mainly using a PC as the source (USB connection) and "The Commander" tube amp driving my CRS+. I was hoping to find a DAC that had the Wolfson WM8741 mostly because I like the sound of the Wolfson in me pioneer which I know is a WM8740 but want to stay in the Wolfson family. I was trying to keep the budget at less than $400. I have so far found two possibilities:

The Opus DAC from TPA: Cost: $240+shipping+++other stuff.
http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/digital/opus.aspx

The NFB-3 from Audio-gd: Cost $370 delivered to front door
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/NFB-2/NFB2EN.htm

I am a little concerned about the my ability to put the OPUS DAC together but like the idea of being able to tinker with it like adding a metronome but do I really need a metronome.

I like the NFB-3 having multiple input in case I want to use Coax in place of USB but am not sure it has as good of components as the OPUS specifically the power source which form what I have read around here is a big deal.

Would appreciate any thoughts/input you may have on these two DACs or any other DAC that has the WM4871 chip.
Thanks

danz1906

Cambridge DacMagic?

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=320

Face

The analog section has more to do with the "sound" of a particular unit than the chip itself. Cambridge's players all have a similar sound even though they use different DAC chips.

I would check out the DacMagic or V-Dac.

drselect

danz1906 wrote: »

Cambridge DacMagic?

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=320

Face wrote: »

I would check out the DacMagic.

Thanks guys for the response. The DacMagic was in the top four along with the Music Hall 25.2/.3. The reason it didn't make my top two was some of the reviews I have read talked about problems with the USB connection and other said it could be improved upon with a better power supply. It would be nice to be in a situation that I could hear one before I purchased but at this time I can't.

Face you did make me think thought about how DacMagic would sound compared to my Pioneer SC-27? If I used it with the SC-27 could I tell if it was there or not?

Face

Honestly, I don't know. I'm unfamiliar with the sound of Pioneer's higher models.

zingo

Rest assured that Audio-gd's power supplies are very good, and that little NFB-3 DAC uses a 50W R-Core transformer and 20,000uf of filtering capacitance on its regulated power supply. I have the NFB-7 which uses one 35W R-core for the digital board and another two 50W R-cores transformers for the analog boards. Kingwa is always focused on power supply when he's building components, and it shows in Audio-gd's sound and build quality.

drselect

Thanks for the info Jake. I had a question about the USB connection but checked and saw that the NFB-7 doesn't have USB. How are you connecting to it? and have you tried different connections to see if there is a sound difference?

zingo

I am using optical right now, but am getting a DH Labs digital coax cable this week and will be doing an A/B test between the two. Because my system is 25' from my PC music server, I decided to not run USB, so I never considered it as an option. I am however also going to do an A/B test on using a digital USB transport (Musiland 01USD) verses an internal sound card with digital out.

zingo

drselect wrote: »

The Opus DAC from TPA: Cost: $240+shipping+++other stuff.
http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/digital/opus.aspx

You would have to check with Jeff (bikerboy) to see what an actual build cost would be, but I've heard it cost most people at least twice the cost of admission to build a Twisted Pear DAC.

drselect

I will be interested in results of your test.
I currently don't have a sound card for my pc but the mother board (ASUS P5Q-E) has Coax and optical outs. However I was leaning toward the using UPS based on some research. And one of the advantage for the TPA DAC was the fact that it has I2S and I could add a mentrone were it doesn't look like the NFB-3 has that capability.

zingo

drselect wrote: »

I will be interested in results of your test.
I currently don't have a sound card for my pc but the mother board (ASUS P5Q-E) has Coax and optical outs. However I was leaning toward the using UPS based on some research. And one of the advantage for the TPA DAC was the fact that it has I2S and I could add a mentrone were it doesn't look like the NFB-3 has that capability.

Quote from HeadFi:

All three inputs of the NFB-3 are slammin'...no worries there at all....... I have been using usb to spdif converters for a while... Curiosity gets the best of me and I think they do have a purpose with various applications. Since Kingwa pumps out great products, I will give the DI a shot.

The other thought is to take advantage of the promo pricing for the NFB-3, as the only thing better than an Audio-gd product is one that's on sale. :cool:

drselect

Who for a second there I got worried because I thought you were going to suggest:

zingo wrote: »

The other thought is to take advantage of the promo pricing for the NFB-3, AND GET BOTH :cool:

zingo

drselect wrote: »

Who for a second there I got worried because I thought you were going to suggest: The other thought is to take advantage of the promo pricing for the NFB-3, AND GET BOTH.

That would just be overkill... :biggrin:

bikerboy

Hi Guys,
Dacs are a sore subject now since I just killed my BuffaloII this weekend trying to installing some new regulators. I'm having to use the Buffalo24 now. The 24 is 2 generations old and sounds good but I was spoiled with the Buffalo32. So I have to say the TPA dacs are great for the money and have a medium learning curve to build. But if I can build one you should be able to also. The SPDIF/Mux is $130 and needed if you want digital switching. So for less than $500 you can have a sweet dac. A usb module, opus, ps, and case. But a BuffaloII with the ESS 9018 will sound better. TPA is working on a 24/192 usb module that will be out soon. I didnt read the whole link but I didnt see any talk about 24/192. Jake should come over with the new dac and listen to the 2.3 that are finally broken in. That nfb-7 looks nice. Then we could let you know what sounds better.

drselect

Thanks bikerboy for the reply.
Since a lot of this is new to me and I will spend some time looking on line but was wondering the OPUS dac has a combo which includes a USB module is that different/better/worse than the SPDIF/Mux for $130?

drselect

zingo wrote: »

That would just be overkill... :biggrin:

Thats true but it could be fun:biggrin:
Unless the WAF kicks in than it could be just kill...:frown:

george daniel

Look at Scott Nixon,,affordable,dependable and good sound.

george daniel

here

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlconv&1296166148&/Modded-Scott-Nixon-Tube-DAC-

drselect

george daniel wrote: »

here

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlconv&1296166148&/Modded-Scott-Nixon-Tube-DAC-

OK now another one to put on my tube DAC list.
I had spent some time looking at the Music Hall 25.2/25.3 but than shied away from it because I have some reservations of jumping into the big pool of tubes instead of wading into them. Wanted to warm up to the tubes starting with the integrated amp and then maybe add other tube components latter (DAC, CD...) Thats part of my thinking of going with the Wolfson DAC because I have a point of reference and than I could continue on the journey further down the rabbit hole.

heiney9

drselect wrote: »

OK now another one to put on my tube DAC list.
I had spent some time looking at the Music Hall 25.2/25.3 but than shied away from it because I have some reservations of jumping into the big pool of tubes instead of wading into them. Wanted to warm up to the tubes starting with the integrated amp and then maybe add other tube components latter (DAC, CD...) Thats part of my thinking of going with the Wolfson DAC because I have a point of reference and than I could continue on the journey further down the rabbit hole.

A tubed dac is wading into tubes, a tubed integrated is jumping into the big pool.

H9

drselect

heiney9 wrote: »

A tubed dac is wading into tubes, a tubed integrated is jumping into the big pool.

H9

Dang it... I was afraid of that.:eek::biggrin:

Not real sure I took the right path but I am sure trying to enjoy the journey

Now if I could just convince Santa that I was nice enough this year to get a DAC and a quad set of Svetlana Winged "C"'s

drselect

Have decided to go with the NFB-3 from Audio-gd http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/NFB-2/NFB2EN.htm for now and will start looking into building a tube DAC.
I appreciate all of your input.
drselect

drselect

The Audio GD NFB-3 DAC finally arrived. I had order it in December but it did not arrive until early this week. I got it hooked up via USB to my computer and via optical from a Sony bdp-s470. After I figured out that I had the mouse sound ON which was causing some weird distortions things settled in. I can definitely tell when it is connected either from the computer or the Sony. To me it sounds warmer and more detailed. Need to order some more cables to try comparisons of different connections to computer and bdp to see if it makes a difference. A few picture of its inside:

steveinaz

Face wrote: »

The analog section has more to do with the "sound" of a particular unit than the chip itself. Cambridge's players all have a similar sound even though they use different DAC chips.

I would check out the DacMagic or V-Dac.

+1 Bravo!

PrazVT

My DACMagic was a significant step up from the receiver's DAC. That's all I have to compare with, but everything sounds sweeter with it

zingo

drselect wrote: »

The Audio GD NFB-3 DAC finally arrived. I had order it in December but it did not arrive until early this week. I got it hooked up via USB to my computer and via optical from a Sony bdp-s470. After I figured out that I had the mouse sound ON which was causing some weird distortions things settled in. I can definitely tell when it is connected either from the computer or the Sony. To me it sounds warmer and more detailed. Need to order some more cables to try comparisons of different connections to computer and bdp to see if it makes a difference. A few picture of its inside:

Congrats on the new DAC, and it's a great looking unit! The sound will improve slightly as its components burn-in, so sit back and enjoy. I don't think I'll ever upgrade my Audio-gd DAC as I can't imagine better sound quality for < $3K.

drselect

Face wrote: »

The analog section has more to do with the "sound" of a particular unit than the chip itself. Cambridge's players all have a similar sound even though they use different DAC chips.

I would check out the DacMagic or V-Dac.

steveinaz wrote: »

+1 Bravo!

Face and/or steveinaz I want to first admit that I am still learning lots of things when it comes to DACs. I would much prefer to be able to hear and learn then just read but location means everything. So most of my learnings are based on what I find/read on the net and much of what I have read discusses the DAC chip playing a major part of the sound. I have also read discussions about the power supply making a difference and can understand tubes in the analog section impacting the sound. Are there other specific components in the analog section that should be considered?
I suppose another way to ask the question is there anything that Cambridge does in the analog section of there DACs to give them a specific sound?
I know I have already selected a DAC and do enjoy it but learning curve is very steep and the rabbit hole is very deep....
Thanks

LuSh

I've spent a couple of weeks now trying to understand computer audio better and while I have a long ways to go I've come across some very interesting information.

I'm curious what OS you're using and what playback software you'll be using. This is probably more important than the differences between similar priced DAC's.

drselect

LuSh wrote: »

I've spent a couple of weeks now trying to understand computer audio better and while I have a long ways to go I've come across some very interesting information.

I'm curious what OS you're using and what playback software you'll be using. This is probably more important than the differences between similar priced DAC's.

I am currently running Vista 64 bit and using media monkey for playback. The DAC is connected via USB but was wanting to see about coax conected to an out that is wired to the motherboard-I currently don't have a sound card.

LuSh

I haven't used or demo'd but check out J River Media. I keep hearing good things about the quality of playback using that software. I have only heard first hand Pure Music on a very high end Mark Levinson system along with a Dac Magic and Revel speakers. I used iTunes from a Mac Book Pro and then used Pure Music (which add's itself to iTunes and disables iTunes for playback but maintains cover art and all organization) and it was a jaw dropping experience. I mean it really made me think for a long time afterward. The learning curve on PC audio is steep.

The great thing about J River Media and Foobar is you can try the free downloads and see which offer the best output results. My conclusions have lead me to believe that getting good sound from a PC is tough, it can be done but you have a hell of an operating system to get by so try a few different players out. Once you get the DAC of your choice.

With regards to your preference to Wolfson...it isn't the chip set but how it is integrated in a system. I use a DAC that is almost 20 years old but the single bit phillips tech was sound it was the power supply that makes the difference...having said that I've heard an rDAC and it does have Async USB output topology from digital mega giant dCs and it's within your budget.

DMara

You've made me lean toward this Kingwa NFB-3 DAC, drselect, since I've been looking for a DAC for my PC music server, too. Please, if you can, do a review of the DAC letting us know what you like and don't like about it