ground loop problem

aboroth00

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

If using a power conditioner I would roll some equipment plugs to help with hum. I use a Monster 5100 which uses an isolation transformers to isolated ac outlets, I assume to reduce any hum / noise problems.

A ground loop will not be cured or even affected by an isolated transformers. All the 5100 claims to do is to reduce hum from RF or radio frequency hums. A different in potentials of grounds causes a hum. Companies generally choose an arbitrary voltage in which to ground their equipment an a difference in voltage may cause a ground loop hum.

aboroth00

TrashyTrucker wrote: »

nap wrote: »

Don't mean to hijack this thread but...
I used these cheater plugs to stop the ground loop interference in my system. My two amps are both on the cheater plugs to stop this hum.

Tell me I didnt waste hundreds and hundreds of dollars on AQ PC's and AQ king cobra IC's to have to rely on a cheap 2 dollar part? :mad:

I am using the Panamax 5100 to condition the incoming ac. I have ea. amp powered by AQ pc's. BUT! on my source/avr (pre) I am also using a AQ pc that is 3 prong too, but the avr has only a 2 prong input.

Q: perhaps on the pre I should roll the AQ pc with the stock pc to see if that works? Just thought of that while typing.

But those dang cheater's work now :mad:

thanks for reading,
Matt :biggrin:

There are several things you can do to avoid using an isolation transformer. I've gone through this and it's very annoying. Try to plug everything into the same outlet. Then if you do, please do not use a cheater plug they are dangerous and only meant to be a temporary fix. Try to trace where the hum is coming from, whether ti's your CATV or a simple RCA connection to your TV.

My ground loop was a result from a RCA out from the receiver to the TV, I didn't even need.

If these do not solve your woes try Jensen transformers, their parts are rated unlike other chinese parts to keep a faithful signal. Here's a link: http://www.jensen-transformers.com/.

aboroth00

aboroth00 wrote: »

TrashyTrucker wrote: »

There are several things you can do to avoid using an isolation transformer. I've gone through this and it's very annoying. Try to plug everything into the same outlet. Then if you do, please do not use a cheater plug they are dangerous and only meant to be a temporary fix. Try to trace where the hum is coming from, whether ti's your CATV or a simple RCA connection to your TV.

My ground loop was a result from a RCA out from the receiver to the TV, I didn't even need.

If these do not solve your woes try Jensen transformers, their parts are rated unlike other chinese parts to keep a faithful signal. Here's a link: http://www.jensen-transformers.com/.

If you have any questions give me a PM, i know some other cheap alternatives in case your hum from your CATV.

aboroth00

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

If using a power conditioner I would roll some equipment plugs to help with hum. I use a Monster 5100 which uses an isolation transformers to isolated ac outlets, I assume to reduce any hum / noise problems.

Sometimes power conditioners increase hum such as passing your CATV through the "Filter" which adds a voltage to the line.

disneyjoe7

Good point thanks.

Ethancf

I had hum in my old house. Used cheater plugs. Moved to new house with same equipment and cable connections without cheater plugs. No hum.

New house solved the problem.

disneyjoe7

Or old house with new wiring works too I'm sure.

aboroth00

Ethancf wrote: »

I had hum in my old house. Used cheater plugs. Moved to new house with same equipment and cable connections without cheater plugs. No hum.

New house solved the problem.

Often times older houses use multiple grounds. Of course multiple grounds can cause problems such as your cable man grounding somewhere else other than where the rest of the house is grounded. Newer houses tend not to have this problem.

aboroth00

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

Or old house with new wiring works too I'm sure.

It's not necessary newer wiring, but how the house is grounded.

disneyjoe7

Agreed but if I was going through the trouble to rewire grounds, I think its best to start over.

aboroth00

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

Agreed but if I was going through the trouble to rewire grounds, I think its best to start over.

Only a certified electrician to do that. With that said redoing the wiring in any home is going to be an expensive ordeal.

disneyjoe7

Agreed.

TrashyTrucker

Question:
My house ground is good....but...
Would it be safe to ground the Satellite to house ground? Ive done research that a hum can persist if two units are following seperate grounds. hence the satellite is grounded seperately.
I asked my electrician friend and he thinks I am ****! Of course he isnt into high end audio equipment. Ive presently placed two cheaters on my biamped Haflers on my fronts. I have tried everything except move the ground on the satellite. And or roll my Ic's. They are new Ic's from AQ, but that doesnt mean something is defective.

Matt

jinjuku

aboroth00 wrote: »

A ground loop will not be cured or even affected by an isolated transformers. All the 5100 claims to do is to reduce hum from RF or radio frequency hums. A different in potentials of grounds causes a hum. Companies generally choose an arbitrary voltage in which to ground their equipment an a difference in voltage may cause a ground loop hum.

Have to disagree with you there. An isolation transformer between two pieces of equipment on two different circuits prevents equipment from having an alternate path to ground.

Check out this RANE Engineering note.

TrashyTrucker

jinjuku wrote: »

Have to disagree with you there. An isolation transformer between two pieces of equipment on two different circuits prevents equipment from having an alternate path to ground.

Check out this RANE Engineering note.

Thanks for the read Jinjuku:

I tried and found some success with tying the two amps together with some external chassis ground strap. I then ran a strap from between them to the AVR (pre).
Wow this experiment greatly reduced the volume of the noise! It may not have totally elliminated it altogether, but it is a start. I plan to run additional straps to ty into other componets and check back with you all with any new results. I am well pleased with this progress. ( I am not a fan of lifting the grounds permanently with cheaters. )

thanks for reading,
Matt :biggrin:

aboroth00

jinjuku wrote: »

Have to disagree with you there. An isolation transformer between two pieces of equipment on two different circuits prevents equipment from having an alternate path to ground.

Check out this RANE Engineering note.

Using a power conditioner in my experience has the potential to make it better and make it worse, but no power conditioner I have used has solved a ground loop hum.

Using something like a isolation transformer from Jensen transformer does work well.

aboroth00

TrashyTrucker wrote: »

Thanks for the read Jinjuku:

I tried and found some success with tying the two amps together with some external chassis ground strap. I then ran a strap from between them to the AVR (pre).
Wow this experiment greatly reduced the volume of the noise! It may not have totally elliminated it altogether, but it is a start. I plan to run additional straps to ty into other componets and check back with you all with any new results. I am well pleased with this progress. ( I am not a fan of lifting the grounds permanently with cheaters. )

thanks for reading,
Matt :biggrin:

Yeap that does seem to work well. I heard some people had some success by connecting all their equipment with metal chassis with speaker wire so they sort of share the same ground. There's a piece of equipment to help with this but I forgot the name of it. Hopefully I can come up with it

I would try to trace where the hum is coming from. it's probably a result from an unbalanced connection. And using as Jinjuku suggested a isolation transformer is a good method also. However, they are expensive. I would suggest that you avoid investing in a power conditioner until you try other methods first. Also try and use digital connections wherever you can.