LSI9's!!!

jkrepner

I just bought a new pair of LSI 9's and even though the LSI M series will be here soon, I love them and they'll be here next week along with a DSW micropro 4000...which is being phased out too. Anyway, I need the stuff now and the new stuff will likely cost more when it comes out. I really feel like I made a good choice and I'm super excited to get these awesome little monitors fired up.

My new Pioneer receiver has a bi-amp function and I'm thinking of using it to bi-amp the LSi9's and using two older external amps to drive the center and the rears to keep the receiver from working too hard. I'll also try to run the speakers from the external amps to see what sounds best.

If anyone with LSi9's is reading this, I'd be curious to hear what worked best for you in regards to amps. Also, what height stands did you go with?

Thanks!
Jeff

fishbones

Welcome to CP!

External amp for your receiver is definitely the way to go, though I would beware of bi-amping. I haven't tried it personally, but many on here feel it is usually a downgrade in sound quality with power demanding speakers (like your LSI's).

Good luck!

grimmace19

I love both pairs of my LSI's from my adcom 7500. As for stands, the speakers are very deep and wide and proper stands are hard to come by. Because I use my 9's for back speakers I had to have tall stands to get above the couch. I recommend these:

http://www.racksandstands.com/Raxxess-Config-u-Raxx-ESS-RX1049.html

I believe they make a 36 inch version as well. Very sturdy and you can put sand inside of them to weight them down. 14x14 inch top platform works great for the lsi's. I grabbed up some black shelf liner non-slip stuff and it's working out perfectly.

dorourke07

I started with mine bi-amped from the receiver and then tried standard with no noticeable difference. Adding the amp woke the speakers up. Much tighter bass and more clarity in the highs and mid-range. Now I actaully think I need more power to really run them properly. External amp is the way to go.

PSOVLSK

My 9's are currently powered by an Emotiva XPA-5 in my HT with good results. I've also powered them with a Carver tfm-55 and an Adcom 545. My order of preference would probably be Carver, Emotiva, Adcom based on the models I've run. I have mine on 30" Sanus stands.

janmike

My LSi9's, LSIFX's & LSiC are all powered with a Proceed AMP5.

Ericw2431

way better wit an external amp

Bernal

My LSi's are all powered with a SUNFIRE Grand Signature - Bob Carver's and SUNFIRE Cinema Grand:biggrin:



01) DENON AVR-4308CI: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH A/V Home Theater /MultiMedia Multi-Source/Zone Receiver with Networking and WiFi/170 watts x 7 channels
02) SUNFIRE Grand Signature - Bob Carver's and SUNFIRE Cinema Grand
03) OPPO BDP-83SE Blu-ray Disc Player w/SACD & DVD-Audio
04) OPPO DV-980H 1080p Up-Converting Universal DVD Player with HDMI and 7.1CH Audio
05) DENON DVD-2500BTCI: Blu-ray Disc™ DVD/CD Digital Player/Transport
06) HITACHI P55T501. 55" HD1080 Plasma HDTV
07) POLKAUDIO LSiC (Center speaker)
08) POLKAUDIO LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker)
09) POLKAUDIO LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker)
10) POLKAUDIO LSiC Vertically (Surround speaker)
11) POLKAUDIO LSiC Vertically (Surround speaker)
12) POLKAUDIO LSif/x LEFT (Surround back speakers)
13) POLKAUDIO LSif/x RIGHT (Surround back speakers)
14) VELODYNE OPTIMUN SERIES 12"(High Output Digital EQ SubWoofer 2400W/1200WRMS)
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=98096 (Not updated)

ohskigod

external amp, and do NOT be afraid of the power. If you find yourself asking "is this amp too powerful for these?" the answer is "NO!". Go the used amplification route, and go big

the LSi9's are my favorite bookshelf. very under appreciated....usually because they are underpowered.

tonyb

Most likely your receiver can't handle the 4 ohm load. Best to use the amps for the 9's and let the receiver handle the center and surrounds. That would be way easier for your receiver to handle. Forget about bi-amping from the receiver,your wasting your time.

danz1906

Welcome to the Club-Congrats!

jkrepner

Thanks everyone, I didn't expect such quick feedback for my first post. That's very nice.

As for amps: I have a 9 year old NAD THX 2 channel amp with a 4 ohm switch. It isn't terribly heavy, but I think it is 100w /channel. I also have, what some would consider bizarre, an even older 100wpc 6 channel Kenwood THX amp from a system they built when they tried to get into higher end components. Anyway, it sounds like I'd be best to initially use the NAD for the L/R lsi9's, and let the kenwood THX amp and Pioneer receiver power the center (LSIc) and rears and zone 2. I'll play around to see what sounds best.

I read on a forum somewhere in my endless reading on these, of a fellow who split the L/R out's from his pre-amp into two 2-channel amps, using one amp's L to drive the woofer and the same amp's R to power the mid/tweet. The other amp did the same for the L. To me that seems like the best because it would eliminate cross talk between channels. Does this method hold water? Maybe that is the normal way you guys do it--who knows?

Also, as far as placement I can basically do whatever I want. Should I place the speakers as far apart from each as I am from them? Is that too wide? The room is about 15.5 wide, I'm about 12 feet away.

I found some suitable side table furniture pieces I thought about using, but they are 20" high and I'm guessing I need to be in the 30" to 36"

Thanks again on the amp info, and thanks for the stand recommendations. I do like Raxxes stuff.

I sense the more power the better and can see new amps in the near(ish) future.
Jeff

mmadden28

jkrepner wrote: »

...along with a DSW micropro 4000...which is being phased out too....

What gave you that idea?

jkrepner wrote: »

....Also, what height stands did you go with?
...

Tweeter should be about ear height

Keep in mind that when using different amps in the same system, that some amps have different 'gain' factors (such as 32dB) so when adjusting the volume, one amp(channel) may 'get louder' faster/slower than another--For example when you turn up the volume your left and right might get louder faster than the center channel resulting in a lower volume center channel at higher global volume. Follow that? If they'll all the same or real close it'll work out

Best bet with the LSi9's is to externally amp them, you might want to consider a decent 3-5 channel external amp. If you go with a 3 channel amp, let the receiver handle the surrounds.

Oh yeah, congrats on the new speakers and Welcome to Club Polk!!

EndersShadow

I have a Carver 5 channel amp myself and plan on running the LSi9's and a LSiC off it and my surrounds off my Integra...the Carver can give 293 watts per channel with 2 channels driven...so I am hoping it will drive the front three with no problems...

dcmartinpc

Both Parasound and Adcom amps pair VERY nicely with the LSi series IMHO. I run nothing but those 2 brands for amplification in my systems. There are other things out there, but these 2 have been very solid performers for me. I currently have 2 pairs of LSi9's. One in my home theater/2 channel system and one pair in my bedroom 2 channel system. External amplification will BRING THEM TO LIFE! I feel parasound amps pair very well with Polk speakers. External amplification is DEFINITELY what you need. A Parasound HCA-1500a, HCA-1200II, Adcom GFA-555, or GFA-5800 or 5802 would ALL work well. The prior can be had for VERY good prices. You just need to keep your eyes open on eBay and Audiogon. It all depends on the sound you are looking for. The Adcom's and Parasound's have a slightly different sound. The Parasound HCA-2200II would be an AWESOME amp for LSi9's, but they tend to be more expensive and harder to come by.

Your best bet is to try and find someone near you who has an amp you can borrow and listen to in your room, or take your stuff over there and check it out. I know that is kind of hard, but I have spent too much $$$ trying to figure out what I liked and wish I would have had someone close by where I could have auditioned some purchases before I made them.

The Carver Sunfire Signature is a phenomenal amp, but tends to be a little more on the expensive side :eek: Used amplification is the way to go. You can try the NAD, but I will tell you, the LSi series CRAVE power in the worst way. It might be a little anemic for the LSi9's.

Welcome to Club Polk!

Don

jkrepner

Thanks mmadden28, I understand your point on different amps. Sounds like it could add another layer of difficulty within my system.

Oh, my local shop (in Baltimore) said Polk has just a few 4000's left and that it is being phased out. I guess I shouldn't say that it is being closed out without knowing for sure, though I could see them coming up with something new around the LSI M launch. I really don't know. The shop matched Crutchfield's price -- who just stopped selling the sub a week or 2 ago -- so I got it way below the $1700 MSRP which was probably too high to begin with. I like the room EQ system on the micropro 4000 though I won't know if it really makes a big difference or not until I get it in my room. The sub is pretty small, so that will help with placement options.

I'm really happy to get amp recommendations from everyone and will start checking prices of these. I've known/listened to Adcom and their (Good F*cking Amp) series.

Emotiva has a sale on their 3 channel model, but other than people on forums saying they are good I have no idea how they sound. Something like their 3 channel amp is in my budget now, but I'm still not confident with internet brands and prefer to support local shops when possible. It sure looks cool though.
http://emotiva.com/xpa3.shtm

Thanks everyone. I haven't owned Polk since the little M series monitors I ran as surrounds many years ago.

EndersShadow

jkrepner wrote: »

mmadden28, my local shop (in Baltimore) said Polk has just a few left and that it is being phased out. I guess I shouldn't say that it is being closed out, though I could see them coming up with something new around the LSI M launch. I really don't know. They matched Crutchfield's price -- which they no longer have anyway -- so I got it way below the $1700 MSRP which was probably too high to begin with. I like the room EQ system on the micropro 4000 though I won't know if it really makes a big difference or not yet. It's small, so that will help with placement options.

I'm really happy to get amp recommendations. Emotiva has a sale on their 3 channel model, but other than people on forums saying they are good I have no idea how they sound. Something like their 3 channel amp is in my budget now, but I'm still not confident with internet brands and prefer to support local shops when possible. It sure looks cool though.
http://emotiva.com/xpa3.shtm

Lots of folks here like the XPA3, they also like Parasound, NAD and Adcom. You will get a much better bang for your buck on amps going with used. Audiogon.com is a great place (or the For Sale section here) to start looking.

If your on a budget I would suggest used, most solid state amps last a long time if properly cared for.

Here are some suggestions:
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108130

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107707 (using 2 channels per speaker (bi-amp))

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105799

PSOVLSK

My experience with Emotiva has been positive. My XPA-5 has served me well for a couple of years now. I bought the XPA-5 and and LMC-1 used, but was able to transfer the warranty with no problems. I had a couple of issues with the LMC-1 and I sent it to them and everything was repaired within a couple of weeks at no cost to me (except the cost to ship it to them). They also gave me a remote since the one I bought didn't have one.

Some act as though Emo is the best thing since sliced bread...others act as though it's junk. From my experience, it it neither. It is a pretty good amp at a pretty good price. It's not a "reference" amp, but to me it mates well with the LSi9's.

You will get more bang for your buck buying used, but if you like the comfort of a warranty, new may be the way you prefer to go.

Where are you located? Perhaps you are near someone who has either an Emo, 9's, or both.

jkrepner

Thanks again, I'm in the Baltimore area. Maybe someone at Polk's HQ will invite me to come audition amps? Ha Ha.

The Emo seems nice, but will review the other options once the speakers come in.

edit: are any amps made in the USA or some other fair trade (ish???) country? I know the Emo stuff isn't but what is? It doesn't really matter I suppose, but when possible I like to fight the good fight.

Thanks
Jeff

dorourke07

Parasound and Lsi's are good friends.

jkrepner

Wow, I just looked up their site... that stuff looks awesome.

PSOVLSK

dorourke07 wrote: »

Parasound and Lsi's are good friends.

Though I don't have first hand experience, I would believe this to be very true. I have a Parasound tuner and pre- and love them both.

Check out www.audioadvisor.com for a good deal. They probably don't have it anymore, but not too long ago they had a nice price on a closeout Parasound 5 channel amp.

dorourke07

I do not have experience with a lot of different amps but I have enjoyed the sound from the little Parasound 2125 that is powering my 9's. Big difference over just using my AVR. I got mine from Audio Advisor.

ohskigod

not a surprise that youre enjoying it.........just know that down the road, you have room for amp upgrades long before you need different speakers (if ever, my 9's arent going anywhere.)

jkrepner

Ok, I found the specs for my NAD amp and a nice little write up on the unit.
http://powerampshop.com/nad-2700-thx-monitor-series-power-amplifier-stunning

I bought it new, and it was made until the mid 90's, so I guess it is closer to 14 years old! Anyway, it is the 2700 THX and I found the manual online. I might be ok with this thing on the LSi9's. It claims to be stable to 2ohms, 150wpc into 8 and almost double that into 4. I bought it to drive a pair of Klipsch KG4 because it was a warmer sounding amp that helped tame the bright (harsh) horn-loaded tweeters. Anyway, it didn't sound all that much better than the Kenwood THX amp (or the Onkyo receiver that eventually powered them), so I kind of disregarded it. But now that I think about it, the Klipsch are 8ohm, and well into the 90's for efficiency, so they could be powered with a headphone jack on a ipod for Pete's sake and still shake the room. The NAD didn't even get warm running those things.

http://nadelectronics.com/products/hifi-amplifiers/-2700THX-Stereo-Power-Amplifier

All of this stuff has been in storage the last few years and the past few weeks I've been listening to my new Pioneer receiver powering the 20 year old KG4's. IT sounds terrible. Last night I hooked up my NAD amp and it sounds wonderful! I can't get over how bad the amps are in my new receiver. What does one expect with a $500-600 receiver, huh? So there is ZERO chance this will do anything but power rears (maybe) and act as a pre-amp and video switcher which it seems to be pretty awesome at.

mmadden28

jkrepner wrote: »

...

edit: are any amps made in the USA or some other fair trade (ish???) country? I know the Emo stuff isn't but what is? It doesn't really matter I suppose, but when possible I like to fight the good fight.

Thanks
Jeff

I hear ya...
Emotiva is designed, engineered and supported in the US, but manufactured in their own plant in China.
And alas, Polk Audio is much the same, designed and engineered in the US, but manufactured overseas (I think China as well).

I haven't done any research on it but I know that Odyssey amps are manufactured in the US.
http://www.odysseyaudio.com/manufacturing.html

As far as Emo amps go, the XPA-3 and 5 are geared more for HT where the XPA-1 and 2 is geared more for 2 channel--There built a bit different inside.

Also keep in mind that while the LSi9's are a 4 ohm nominal speaker, they do dip to 2 ohms or less at certain frequencies-so concentrate on a high current amp (preferably 2 ohm stable), not just a high wattage amp.

jkrepner

Interesting stuff. I notice in my preliminary searches that not all amp manufactures list the actual current delivery capability of their products. Odyssey and Parasound both do--Emotiva and NAD only say "high current design". This brings me back to my sales days at Circuit City circa 1993 and our push to get customers into HK receivers though they often bought the higher wattage offerings from Sony & Pioneer instead.

Is this a case of chasing specs? I mean, now the 2 channel monster XPA-2 from Emotiva is on sale within striking distance.

Still waiting for my shop to call me with my new little gems, btw.

jkrepner

Hey Everyone, I just wanted to follow up now that the LSI's are in and I've had a chance to do some listening.

First off, speakers this size have no business reproducing bass this deeply and cleanly. I'm really impressed with how low these guys hit, especially the "in your chest" mid bass. I even pulled them out from the walls a bit to reduce the bass. I haven't gotten the Micropro 4000 in yet, so I'm running these as large speakers and can't get over how much bass they make. Really cool!

The sound stage is airy and open with a nice amount of front to back depth. The sound stage so far doesn't extend out much past the boundaries of the speakers, but I suspect I need to do more placement testing to get them to open up. The LSI's in my room seem to be very susceptible to placement and just a few minor changes in tow-in or distance apart makes quite remarkable changes in sound. Should I be shooting for an equilateral triangle or should they be closer together? Maybe I need to be back more? Right now everyone is about 10-12' apart in a 15.5' wide by 25' room. A doorway to the right would prohibit me placing the right any further towards a corner.

The tweeters are 180 from the horns I've owned, and pretty different than any other speaker I've heard in this range. These tweeters don't sound screachy at higher volumes, yet somehow manage to still reproduce sound well at low volumes. I like that I can listen to these at mid volume and still hear rich highs (and lows too). During my speaker auditions over the last few weeks I felt like many times I'd have to turn the volume up to get a full sound, but these seem to do well at any volume. I'm sure that has just as much to do with the room as the speakers, but it's my initial impression thus far. Overall, I'd say they produce a warm easy to listen to sound.

The cherry side panels are real wood, btw, and not laminate. They have a very high wife/girl friend approval factor with their sharp looks and small size. I still have lots of tweaking to do, I need to buy stands (sitting on the old 27" tall speakers at the moment), and work on the acoustics of the just completed basement but feel like I made the right choice.

Oh, so far what works best seems to be to bi-amp with the old Kenwood THX amp. I'm splitting out of the pre-pro/receiver and using 4 of the 6 channels to drive the LSI'9--other 2 channels won't be used. Initially I had them amped with the 2 channel NAD, but found the bi-amp sounds better. However, now that they are broken in more and I've played some with speaker placement (about 2.5' from back wall and about 2' from side walls) I want to try the NAD again. If the Kenwood still sounds better (it weighs and cost almost double the NAD and got good reviews a decade and a half ago!!!) then the NAD will be bridged to drive the center until I move on to better amplification.

Thanks everyone and thanks Polk. These are serious speakers and even with my modest amps sound better than anything I've heard within hundreds of dollars (if not more).

On a side note: I'm using a Pioneer as a pre-pro with MCACC, which is Pio's version of Audyssey, and so far I'm not sold on this. I get that it makes the speakers deliver even response to the listen area but to my ears it is a bit clinical sounding. Admittedly this is the first unit I've owned with any sort of room EQ system, but so far the bad seems to be outweighing the good. I really need to play with it more so this is by no means a final verdict and I was really looking forward to the magic I thought MCACC would deliver. I haven't gotten the rest of the surrounds hooked up yet, but I can imagine it helping to smooth out the differences between the fronts and rears and to offset room issues in multichannel mode, so if nothing else I'll use it then. I can't help but to imagine a speaker designer's grief listening to a speaker he/she built after being EQ's flat. Who knows?

-Jeff

PSOVLSK

Congrats. I know my 9's (or 7's or 15's) won't be going anywhere. They may well be the last speakers I own.

mmadden28

jkrepner wrote: »

...
The cherry side panels are real wood, btw, and not laminate....
....

They're still laminate, just real wood veneer vs. vinyl. Well I guess you could say MDF is real wood too . Personally I think they took great care in the veneering process--seamless and matching, esp from the side to the bevel--they really do look good and I own both cherry finish varieties.

jkrepner wrote: »

...
On a side note: I'm using a Pioneer as a pre-pro with MCACC, which is Pio's version of Audyssey, and so far I'm not sold on this. I get that it makes the speakers deliver even response to the listen area but to my ears it is a bit clinical sounding....

The auto setup MCACC/Audyssey is really just a tool to help account for room acoustics and get you 'most of the way there', but usually you still have to tweak a bit here and there to account for your individual taste. Personally I always bump the surrounds and sub up a bit from the auto setup. I also use an SPL meter to check things out as well. You also want to dbl check the distances it may have calculated--might need tweaking there too.

What do you mean when you say 'clinical sounding'? What mode? 5.1 surround or 2 channel stereo. The adjustments MCACC makes aren't to tone or anything, just to SPL levels and delays between the speakers and such (I'm pretty sure anyway). Have you tried whatever the equivalent is for Pure Direct mode when listening to 2 channel Stereo??

I suppose it could be a synergy thing with the amps your using too--some amps are said to be warm while other's bright--its possible there is a different mix of amp 'coloring' going on here-just a thought.

Congrats on your acquisition and satisfaction thus far. :cool:

jkrepner

Clinical in that things sound more clear, but lose character in someway..like a pair of studio headphones designed to hear everything evenly (for good or ill) for sound mixing purposes. With that said, I just started reading the MCACC thread on AVS forum and as you said there is still some tweaking to dial things in once the auto is done.

I suspect it could be a delay or reverb setting buried somewhere in some menu on the receiver. I need to do my homework on this before I post, huh?

Oh, I'm also adjusting the listening area for better acoustics. I doubt these bare drywall walls are doing me any favors (recently finished basement).:frown: