ebay sellers beware! update

jim 249
jim 249 Posts: 347
edited November 2010 in The Clubhouse
Hi All; It looks like I lost all my money and the turntable I listed on ebay. The buyers bank also charged paypal a $20.00 charge back fee which they then passed on to me. I also got hit with the credit card transaction fee even though I did not receive any funds. So lets add this up: $128.00 sale price plus $45.00 shipping plus $20.00 charge back fee plus $5.47 credit card fee plus $13.74 sellers and listing fee and I am out the turntable plus $212.21! I tried to email ebay to at least get my sellers fees back but got no response. This is my last dealings with suckbay!!!!!!!!!:mad:
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  • messiah
    messiah Posts: 1,790
    edited October 2010
    Ebay doesn't give a damn about the seller. Sorry to hear that they F'kd you like that. Craigslist, Polk sales forum, or Audiogon are all better options.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    Benjamin Franklin, February 17th, 1775.

    "The day that I have to give up my constitutional rights AND let some dude rub my junk...well, let's just say that it's gonna be a real bad day for the dude trying to rub my junk!!"
    messiah, November 23rd, 2010
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  • dee1949
    dee1949 Posts: 1,425
    edited October 2010
    ...How did it happen?????? More on the story. Sounds outrageous!!!
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  • wz2p7j
    wz2p7j Posts: 840
    edited October 2010
    You should be entitled
    to your unit back? Just re-sell it somewhere.

    Chris
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  • wz2p7j
    wz2p7j Posts: 840
    edited October 2010
    From eBay's Buyer Protection FAQ:

    Do I need to send the item back to the seller?

    If you've opened an item not as described case for a purchase covered by eBay Buyer Protection, then you must typically send the item back to the seller before getting a refund. You must also provide eBay with the return shipping tracking number, and for items valued over $250, we also require signature confirmation. Once we've confirmed the item was returned to the seller, you'll receive a refund into your PayPal account.

    Did this not happen with your case? Why? As an eBay seller, I'd like to know.

    Sorry about your experience. Sounds like it sucked. :(

    Chris
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,212
    edited October 2010
    Plane trip, knock on door, punch POS in the grill, take turntable smash it in the street, go to airport fly home, turn on some tunes, and have a drink!!
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  • dcmartinpc
    dcmartinpc Posts: 844
    edited October 2010
    Sounds like the credit card company is the one who is causing all the problems here. The credit card company took the money back. That took eBay and Paypal out the equation. Something doesn't smell right overall though... Not on your end though. I would think you should be able to maybe contact the buyer's credit card company and maybe explain the situation to them. Quite frankly, this is theft, and the buyer has committed a crime.

    Don
    Living Room: Adcom GFP-750 (Upgraded), Squeezebox Touch, Oppo BDP-83, Pioneer DV-79AVi, Parasound HCA-3500 (Upgraded), SDA SRS 2 P/B (Gimpod, Sonicaps, & Mills)

    Theater: Denon 4311ci, Oppo BDP-93, Parasound HCA-2205+HCA-2200II, Polk LSi9, LSiC, LSiFX, LSi7, Custom 18" TC Sounds sub with 2 18" PR, Sharp XV-Z12000, Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M (isf Enabled)

    Bedroom: HK AVR354, Pioneer DV-47a, Parasound HCA-1500a, Polk LSi9
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,773
    edited October 2010
    dcmartinpc wrote: »
    Sounds like the credit card company is the one who is causing all the problems here. The credit card company took the money back. That took eBay and Paypal out the equation. Something doesn't smell right overall though... Not on your end though. I would think you should be able to maybe contact the buyer's credit card company and maybe explain the situation to them. Quite frankly, this is theft, and the buyer has committed a crime.

    Don

    PayPal causes all the problems. PayPal has the ability to respond to any credit card charge back, and go to bat for the seller. Problem is, they usually don't. They don't really know anything about the item, or it's actual condition, so how can they?

    He can't contact the CC company. They will only deal with whoever made the charge, and that's PayPal.
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  • dee1949
    dee1949 Posts: 1,425
    edited October 2010
    ...You are right!! Ebay has lost touch with the sellers. The sellers are what makes Ebay.... NO product....No sells. Sellers are afraid of negative feedback. Too afraid is the reason I don't sell there.

    My experience with a tt....won a Dual 1228....came smashed...dust cover cracked....tt...didn't turn on. Contacted seller and sent pics....they offered to refund $$$ plus shipping and not to send item back. I offered to pay for certain parts....they declined. I gave "GREAT" feedback. Ebay has lost it's base supporters.
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  • wz2p7j
    wz2p7j Posts: 840
    edited October 2010
    Jim, did you just offer to give this idiot his money back up front if he returned the unit? How did this escalate into a CC chargeback?
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  • jim 249
    jim 249 Posts: 347
    edited October 2010
    How did it happen?????? More on the story. Sounds outrageous!!!


    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107697
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  • jim 249
    jim 249 Posts: 347
    edited October 2010
    Jim, did you just offer to give this idiot his money back up front if he returned the unit? How did this escalate into a CC chargeback?

    Read the above link and that should answer your question.

    Thanks for all the moral support!!!!!!!
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  • dee1949
    dee1949 Posts: 1,425
    edited October 2010
    ...the buyer was probably a stinking "lawyer"! Knew he could get away with it. A new type of scam. Next will be that you need a "Witnesses" and a Pro Stamp of approval. So much for Fleabay as a seller. Still a good place to buy.
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  • jim 249
    jim 249 Posts: 347
    edited October 2010
    My experience with a tt....won a Dual 1228....came smashed...dust cover cracked....tt...didn't turn on. Contacted seller and sent pics....they offered to refund $$$ plus shipping and not to send item back. I offered to pay for certain parts....they declined. I gave "GREAT" feedback. Ebay has lost it's base supporters.

    I would have done the same thing if this guy had not sent pictures of "damaged" parts that were not sent with the table.
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  • jim 249
    jim 249 Posts: 347
    edited October 2010
    Here is a link to ebay with the TT.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300470249077
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  • dee1949
    dee1949 Posts: 1,425
    edited October 2010
    jim 249 wrote: »
    Here is a link to ebay with the TT.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300470249077

    Ciao Jim

    MY reply had nothing to do with your sell!!!!! Just saying that sellers take it up the arse....because of negative feedback on one side only. There are always 2 sides to a story. Buyers are now the "SCAMER'S"!!!....only due to EBAY and Paypal.
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  • wz2p7j
    wz2p7j Posts: 840
    edited October 2010
    I've actually had pretty good luck with eBay, both as a buyer and seller over many years. What I like about the concept is that you create this huge market, which creates liquidity, which in turn creates pretty fair prices. (see Adam Smith).

    I'm small potatoes on eBay but I try to view myself as kinda a mini-WalMart or something. People are trained that they can return merchandise almost under any circumstances. In some cases it approaches down right thievery but the big retailers have trained the consumer to this. So when I'm selling, I just go for the good feedback score, it's worked so far.

    Most sellers I've worked with on eBay have bent over backwards to make me happy. I do think this forum is overly hard on eBay. Now, having said all of that, some creep did screw me about a year ago on a printer. My only truly bad experience on eBay.

    He's changed his eBay name about 4-5 times in the last year. Racks up huge numbers with lousy feedback. I've been able to track him because the jerk was stupid enough to give me a link to his on-line store in one of his e-mails. The on-line store has a link to all of his eBay auctions.

    Eventually a like printer will come up and I'll bid on it. Then send back the POS printer he sent me. Then sell the good printer for some $$ and buy something I like.

    Jerks will always eventually get what is coming to them. It's better if you can give 'em what is coming to them. :):)

    Not advocating revenge, just sayin'............. :p:p

    Chris
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  • jim 249
    jim 249 Posts: 347
    edited October 2010
    Hi Chris; I have also had relatively good luck with ebay. Check my feedback through the above link. It only takes one ah*le to ruin things though!
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  • wz2p7j
    wz2p7j Posts: 840
    edited October 2010
    If he won't even return your unit, that is downright thievery!

    Yeah, my 1 bad experience on eBay kinda soured me too.

    Your buyer is somewhat active on eBay. Keep an eye on him. See if the TT comes up for sale (sans cartridge) or similar item.

    Yes there are thieves everywhere. I had a guy steal a gold chain right off my neck one time. Doesn't mean I'm going to stay indoors the rest of my life :):)

    Chris
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  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 6,727
    edited October 2010
    Something doesn't make sense here and I get the feeling you are leaving out details, or you failed to do you part at some point.

    Credit card companies don't just do charge backs unless their customer can prove either they: a) didn't receive the item, b) item was not as advertised (which requires the item to be returned), and/or c) the item was returned but they did not receive a refund, or finally d) the charge was unauthorized (hard to say that with PayPal though).

    In all cases, the credit card company requires some documentation from both parties and I know they require proof of sending the item back for cases b and c.

    I know from from being on the opposite side of things that credit cards do not make it easy.
    For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore...
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,773
    edited October 2010
    billbillw wrote: »
    In all cases, the credit card company requires some documentation from both parties and I know they require proof of sending the item back for cases b and c.

    I know from from being on the opposite side of things that credit cards do not make it easy.

    I've had to do 2 charge backs before. The credit card company told me the retailer had so many days to respond, don't remember how many. If they don't respond, they automatically decide in the customers favor. If they do respond, then you have to provide all the documentation.

    In one case I had to provide all kinds of documentation and return the item. In the other, I had to do absolutely nothing, and was told it was up the the retailer to arrange for their goods to be shipped back or picked up.

    My guess is PayPal never responded.
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  • jim 249
    jim 249 Posts: 347
    edited October 2010
    Something doesn't make sense here and I get the feeling you are leaving out details, or you failed to do you part at some point

    I can not figure out what you are saying here. Paypal is the one taking the credit card, not me. Paypal requires sellers to take credit cards selling on ebay. I have no contact with the bank and therefore can not even respond to them. I have listed auctions on ebay before and stipulated no credit cards accepted, and ebay has canceled the auction. I am really at a loss as to what could be left out.
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  • sm88
    sm88 Posts: 353
    edited October 2010
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=160475493535&si=0F7zmI3mo4TnfyPEKwPB%252FlPr29A%253D&viewitem=#ht_480wt_1159

    He also bought this BO Turntable. Did his name happen to be "Bill"? Because someone asked the seller a question about the arm / cartridge
    Current System:
    Paradigm Signature S2 v2
    Conrad Johnson MF2500
    Wyred4Sound DAC2
    Audioquest Black Mamba II

    For Sale:
    3x Wilson Cub's
    Conrad Johnson MF2500
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,953
    edited October 2010
    Don't know enough details to say one way or the other but ebay and paypal have become such a pain in the arse to use,why bother. I've had good luck with audiogon or even craigslist.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • jim 249
    jim 249 Posts: 347
    edited October 2010
    He also bought this BO Turntable. Did his name happen to be "Bill"?

    I just checked my old emails and his name is William. Yes it is Bill. As I originally said in my previous thread this guy was after parts. Thanks for the info.
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  • sm88
    sm88 Posts: 353
    edited October 2010
    Would it be worth writing the seller of that other turntable and asking them if they can identify the ding / nasty stylus as being the ones from THEIR TT and not yours? Would serve as evidence
    Current System:
    Paradigm Signature S2 v2
    Conrad Johnson MF2500
    Wyred4Sound DAC2
    Audioquest Black Mamba II

    For Sale:
    3x Wilson Cub's
    Conrad Johnson MF2500
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  • jim 249
    jim 249 Posts: 347
    edited October 2010
    Would it be worth writing the seller of that other turntable and asking them if they can identify the ding / nasty stylus as being the ones from THEIR TT and not yours? Would serve as evidence

    Email sent. Thanks
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  • leroyjr1
    leroyjr1 Posts: 8,785
    edited October 2010
    Where is this guy located?
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  • jim 249
    jim 249 Posts: 347
    edited October 2010
    My guess is PayPal never responded.

    Paypal did respond. They said with the info I provided that they would challenge the banks findings, however the charge back has been completed. They are still trying, but I don't have much hope for this one.
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  • jim 249
    jim 249 Posts: 347
    edited November 2010
    Hi All; Here is an update. I lost my case with paypal. All my money and the table. Are you ready for this one? He just did the same thing with another seller on ebay on the same model table. Here is a link to that one. Ebay sucks!

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=350397503461&si=wntzbJikFlgI9plzDP5t8OAEcgk%253D&viewitem=

    You need to go to page 5 of the sellers feedback left for others to see the updated feedback' This seller sells a lot of stuff and gets great feed back.
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  • leroyjr1
    leroyjr1 Posts: 8,785
    edited November 2010
    How do you know he did the same thing again?
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