I felt I had to comment

Jstas

Originally posted by Al@polk
You are saying that you are worried that our plans to appeal to the teens will mean that the product will be all "sizzle' and that we will ignore your needs. Further, that the outlaw image of the tuners is not one that is appropriate for Polk.

It is not our wish to trade one market for another. We hope and believe that we can serve you both. We have no intention of creating product that is simply "eye-candy" - they can get that from someone else. As for the outlaw image - we believe that the "Too fast, too furious" image can create lasting damage for both the performance and audio aftermaket. For that reason, Polk has signed as a charter sponsor of RASR (Racers Against Street Racing). This is a program developed by SEMA to promote legal racing at tracks. It has the support of most of the biggest names in professional racing and local goverment. You'll be seeing more about this in the press soon.

Well first off, I don't think the products of Polk Audio would go to pot. I think that the reputation of Polk Audio would end up being just another "ricer brand" and that is pretty much market death. Hot rodding has been and will be around for years but the cartoonish looking cars of the "ricers" is a fad. It's fleeting, I'm already starting to see it's decline in the gaudy, outlandish looks and more down to earth renditions of performance over looks.

On the idea of lots of sizzle, no substance. I see alot of useless crap marketed to the "tunerz". But for every 9 products I see, 1 or 2 are actually worth something so the stuff is out there. there is no reason Polk Audio can't make things that perform but also appeal cosmetically to the people who want the flash. Infact, I wish more companies across the entire automotive aftermarket would make more substance behind the flash! So kudos to Polk Audio for wanting to accomplish that. All I worry about is the marketing. Don't market to the "tunerz", market for them. If you are running ads in magazines, don't put a flashy, fancy ad from Super Street in Car and Driver too. Build a product that anyone can like or at least find something to like about them and then market it to seperate demographics. If you build a product that perfoms well, it doesn't really matter what it looks like. If it puts up the technical numbers and sticks to or exceeds them, it could look like a Vogon for all I care! (That was an obscure Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy reference)

Just some ideas about marketing. Well, at least what has worked for me. A perfect example is Crutchfield. For years Bill Crutchfield has relied of word of mouth more than anything. How does that work? He offers plenty of choices in product. Good choices too! Then he backs it up with stellar customer service! Polk Audio already has that formula in place. Just make a few more choices. One gripe I had about the MOMO stuff was that you couldn't get woofers or tweeters seperate. You HAVE to buy a whole set. That is a limit to choices.

Also, another thing that works for Cruthfield is the customer comments in the catalog. Make your ads with customer cars in them. I know there are people out there who would love to have thier car in an ad. Hell, you could even attend an IASCA event and grab someone who is running Polk Audio products in a class and build an ad around thier car. Most people would want either a few dollars for the ad or some sponsorship money or equipment. That would be more advertising. It;s a huge bang for the buck too! Somebody sees the car from the ad and they have to stop and take a look because its "COOL! Look! It's that car from that ad in <insert car magazine here>". Then they start talking to the owner of the vehicle and Polk Audio HAS to get mentioned if they are going to start talking about car audio. Now, if it sounds GREAT, the walk matches the talk, you know? Anyway, the point is, true, honest to goodness real people telling me what they like works 10 times better for me than just some cheesy over-sexed ad in a magazine. Since Polk Audio is about the customer and giving them one hell of a product, find that customer and use them in your ads. Let them speak for you. It's a simple ad with a low budget that has an incredible impact.

sntnsupermen131

actually now you can buy the tweeters seperate...i dont think you can buy the drivers seperate though
-Cody

[Deleted User]

Originally posted by Jstas
Make your ads with customer cars in them.

We are currently running an ad campaign with three people that use our stuff (Kathryn Gallagher, T.J. Topper and Kyle Gilbert). It is run in several national magazines such as Car Audio & Electronics, Mobile Entertainment, and Super Street just to name a couple.

Jstas

Well, I don't see Polk Audio ads in the magazines I get.

I am usually seen reading:

Hot Rod
Car Craft
Popular Hot Rodding
Car and Driver
Popular Mechanics
Popular Science
Truckin'
SVT Enthusiast (not a real large circulation and no ads)


Where I think you should run a couple ads is in Truckin' for car audio and in Popular Mechanics/Science for the home audio stuff. All 3 magazines have huge circulation. Truckin' has been on an audio equipment kick and even has an entire section devoted to it. The Pop. Sci/Mech. magazines also have large circulation and the people who read those kinds of magazines are technology junkies. Ads in those magazines would probably reach more buyers than the typical audio only related magazines.

Also, adevrtising in those kind of magazines would send the message that Polk Audio isn't just about audio for the snooty audio geek guys. I know the Truckin' magazine would be nice. I'm so tired of seeing Visionik, MTX, Jensen and Sony ads in them.

But then again, you guys could run ads wherever someone will take your money.


Actually, this dude's car would be an excellent ad to run in like Hot Rod!

http://www.polkaudio.com/car/installs/view.php?id=25

You guys should find a customer with a truck with a nice install and use that for an ad too.

Thom

The problem is that money runs out at some point. We can only put together so many ads and run them in so many magazines. The Momo co- branded line(s) is most appealing to the "tuner" crowd, or car guys in general. I'm not a truck guy but I'm guessing Momo isn't something you see in a lot of trucks. Therefore a Polk/ Momo ad might not do us a lot of good. In the future when/if we have a Polk Audio ad it would likely stand more of a chance. I always thought our old ads with Matt would have worked for the more mainstream (non- car) mags.

The problem now is that 2 of our 3 lines will be Momo so it'll take a little time to develop a new "best" line.

Thom

Originally posted by Jstas
Well, I don't see Polk Audio ads in the magazines I get.

Actually, this dude's car would be an excellent ad to run in like Hot Rod!

http://www.polkaudio.com/car/installs/view.php?id=25

You guys should find a customer with a truck with a nice install and use that for an ad too.

His ad only ran in Mustangs & Fast Fords, I believe. We've also considered trucks on a few occasions but it's never panned out.

sntnsupermen131

I have a truck...to bad its a pos...but it has a nice system...
too bad its not in working order as of now...
-Cody

sntnsupermen131

Originally posted by Thom
His ad only ran in Mustangs & Fast Fords, I believe. We've also considered trucks on a few occasions but it's never panned out.

not even the harley truck?
i forget whats in it...but if its good then you could run it in...oo i dunno...a motorcylce magazine?
-Cody

Jstas

Originally posted by Thom
His ad only ran in Mustangs & Fast Fords, I believe. We've also considered trucks on a few occasions but it's never panned out.

I think his ad can apply to more than just Muscle Mustangs and Fast Ford considering the fact that it is a classic Mustang.

Cody's idea with the Harley Davidson truck is cool too and since its a specialty truck that covers both trucks and motorcycles, it'll do good for trucks or motorcycles.

Now, what would be really cool is if you convince somebody with a fatty '51 Mercury to use Polk Audio stuff in that ride! Talk about impact!

I just thought though that the ad campaign for BFGoodrich and the Comp T/A tire ads was so successful, they branched it off to other lines of BFG tires. You know, the ones where they mounted BFG tires on different cars and trucks and ran the ads in magazines that pertained to each vehicle respectivly. That ad campaign had alot of impact and I have seen posters of those ads hanging in alot of places. BFG is still getting exposure from those ads 3 years after the ad originally ran. I'm not saying to rip off BFG but that was a simple idea that had a huge impact.

sntnsupermen131

and wasnt their a viper with momos in it?
that would definetely want to make me buy momos...dodge viper...BAD **** CAR...very expensive too...yet the momos arent that expensive...so that must mean that they sound damn good...and what?...theyre not totally out of my price league!...cuz you know a guy with a viper would be able to afford any type of audio he wanted...and he went with momos...so i can have momos in my(insert typical daily driving car here) and theyll be just as good as what the guy in the viper has!
typical consumer reaction i would think...
-Cody

Jstas

Originally posted by Thom
The problem is that money runs out at some point. We can only put together so many ads and run them in so many magazines. The Momo co- branded line(s) is most appealing to the "tuner" crowd, or car guys in general. I'm not a truck guy but I'm guessing Momo isn't something you see in a lot of trucks. Therefore a Polk/ Momo ad might not do us a lot of good. In the future when/if we have a Polk Audio ad it would likely stand more of a chance. I always thought our old ads with Matt would have worked for the more mainstream (non- car) mags.

The problem now is that 2 of our 3 lines will be Momo so it'll take a little time to develop a new "best" line.

I didn't see this post before the other one.

I understand the money thing. Ads get expensive. I'm not saying to run an ad in every magazine. But if you want to break into new markets, you want exposure in those new markets. Popular magazines from those new markets would be the best place to do it. Maybe you cut back on the number of ads run in the car audio mags where your reputation is established. Provide your kick **** speakers for tests and evaluations. That right there is advertising that won't hit the ad budget in most cases. Take that money you save are put ads in other magazines where you want to get exposure.

[Deleted User]

The ad campaign was based on the fact that "real" people use our product. All of the people that were used in our ads were not affiliated with Polk and already had our speakers in their cars. Hell, I would've gladly volunteered my car for an ad, but that wasn't the message they were trying to make.

PoweredByDodge

whoa whoa whoa -- "u dont see momo's in trucks" --

um...

i own a truck

john owns a truck

cody owns a truck

lots of other people own trucks --

namely - two installers at the local CC who've got them stacked with momo gear (well last time i checked about a year ago... dude ripped out his JL 12's replaced em w/ momo's).

we all run polk.

my old man runs polk in his truck

maybe there's a good point there -- POLK is run in lots of trucks... Momo is run in some, but maybe not as many... sometimes the cosmetics dont appeal to truck guys ... but if the consumer had half a brain they'd realize that the speaker most likely will not even be seen in the door so cosmetics are virtually irrelevant.

anyway - just my two cents.

trucks sell -- SUV's and Pickups are selling like hotcakes these days... and the people dropping 40 grand on a new quad cab usually have full intent on putting audio in said truck. whether its big audio or little audio -- its audio, and with three distinct lines varying in price / power / etc etc... polk has the equipment to market to them and keep em happy in whatever suits their need.

Jstas

I have 2 trucks. Both have Polk Audio speakers in them. No MOMO though. I have dB and EX (original series).

My dad has DX 6x8's in his truck (2000 F150 Ext. Cab).

My brother has EX speakers in his 97 Ranger.

I installed EX 5 inch speakers in an 87 Jeep Wrangler.

I am going to be installing Polk MOMO 6.5 inch components and now, maybe an 8 inch MOMO sub in a 2000 Jeep Wrangler.

If a guy I know with a Dodge Caravan is serious, he'll most likely have Polks in that.

A guy at work wants to put Polk Audio speakers in his 2002 Chevy Silverado Ext. Cab.

Another guy wants Polk Audio for his Asstek...I mean Pontiac Aztek.

I also see a few "Customer Installs" on the main site with Polk Audio speakers in SUV's and pickup trucks.



On top of that, pretty much half of all new vehicles sold in this country are trucks. You are cutting out half of your total market in automotive applications by having the attitude that "people in trucks don't want Polk Audio".

Actually, it's kind of insulting. I don't even know how to take it. On one hand, it can be construed as people who own trucks don't appreciate the product. On the other hand it can be construed as people who own trucks aren't good enough for Polk Audio stuff. Or it could totally be turned around and asked of you, what's your problem with people who own trucks? But I will take the higher road and hope that you are not one of the mentality that everyone who drives a truck is a dumb redneck.

Trucks are easy to install audio equipment in and lose a small amount of utility. They also hold a hell of alot more audio stuff and can support more power, in most cases, than most cars. If I were a speaker company, I'd go after the truck market. It's huge! Especially since there are very few rear wheel drive vehicles with V8's anymore. Trucks are turning into the "muscle car" replacement. All those guys who grew up with the muscle cars now are making high 5 to high 6 figure incomes. They can afford this stuff easily and would gladly buy it in most cases if someone TOLD them it was out there!

Thom

When I said that I didn't think Momo was big in trucks, I don't mean Polk/ Momo speakers- I'm talking about Momo seats, pedals, etc. I realize that truck sales are huge and SUV sales keep increasing but the Momo thing appeals most to guys with "sporty" cars. Or guys that think their car is sporty. I think if the current ads ran in truck magazines most people would overlook it because it says Polk/ Momo and all the ads are cars (and mostly imports). We would need completely different ads and that's not my department.

Thom

Polk as a company has never hated trucks. Have you ever seen the demo vehicles from years ago? Let's see, there was an F- 150, F- 150, F- 150, F- 150, F- 150, F- 150, and a few more F- 150's mixed in there.

Steve@3dai

And the Ford Escape, can't forget that one.

Steve@3dai

Originally posted by Jstas
On top of that, pretty much half of all new vehicles sold in this country are trucks. You are cutting out half of your total market in automotive applications by having the attitude that "people in trucks don't want Polk Audio".

I don't honestly see other companies going for trucks specificly, but that could be that I don't read the right magazines. I think there's a couple other overall issues at hand:

1. People don't want to spend a bunch of money on stereo equipment (this includes install) that will sound better over their stock stereos. They don't see why with all the road noise, wind noise, etc they should honestly be that worried about car audio.

2. Stock systems are getting better. Most (if not all) vehicles are coming with CD players as standard options. That used to be the reason to upgrade, at least the deck. Aftermarket car audio can't be that profitable, it's the OEM where you make the serious money. You get into a contract with GM or whoever to put Polk into their showroom cars, NOW you're making money.

3. Stereo shops don't appeal to the mass markets. Unfortunately, a lot of stereo shops don't have the greatest image with consumers. They have loud cars all around them constantly (that usually just boom), and a lot of the time just a mom or dad walking in there just wanting a simple speaker change or headunit change doesn't get the service they are used to at other stores. They usually find something to charge extra for and such if they see that they can get away with it.

So I think there's bigger overall issues that need to be addressed. Some can be helped by Polk Audio, some can't.

I also think that the "ricer" fad as some people call it won't die. The people that spend the serious money on their "ricer" cars aren't just gonna go away. They spend the money for show or performance. Show cars and trucks are only a VERY small market, VERY small, and I also do not think that they have that much of an impact on the normal consumer's buying preferences.

Maybe Polk should run an ad that goes towards the normal soccer mom in her SUV, Caravan, or Volvo. "We can make you car sound better, without the boom". Car audio has a tainted name IMO, and it needs to be fixed.

-justin-

Hey Thom, don't forget about that F-150 truck.

~JB

sntnsupermen131

okay polk...this is what you should do...get a 2002/2003 2500hd 4 door sport bed gmc with 4wheel drive and 4 wheel steering...take it muddy...get it so muddy that you cant tell what color the paint is
at the top of the ad put
"YOU THINK THIS IS DIRTY, YOU SHOULD HEAR THE SYSTEM"
picture of truck here with
below
picture of sony xplod speakers
"GO WITH POLK/MOMO, WE'LL CLEAN IT UP"
picture of momos here
-Cody

Jstas

Steve,
You are looking at it from a very biased point of view. Trucks are no longer the workhorse only. Since most of them have more room in them than a full-sized family sedan, people are buying them as the family hauler. Those families are purchasing DVD entertainment systems for thier vehicles now too and upgrading stereo equipment to suit. Same thing goes with minivans, SUV's and even full-sized vans. Hell, a guy at work just dropped 8K installing a DVD/audio system into his Mazda Millenia to occupy the kids on a long trip! The market is there, nobody is marketing to it and that is the problem. Since Polk Audio has a good name in home theater, why can't they have a good name is car theater?

As far as you assessment as to why people aren't looking for audio, I think you are dead wrong. Yeah, stock stereos are getting better but, not the base stereo. They are still junk. To get something "better", you have to get a premium package that most people don't want or can't afford. Even then, the stereo can cost 3 grand on the options list and I can put together a stereo that sounds much better than that "premium" stereo for roughly 1/3rd the cost. People don't realize that though because nobody markets to that. Everybody goes after the specialty markets.

As far as trucks go, they are not your typical family car. If you ever get a chance, walk through a SEMA show and look at how much stuff there is to customize trucks. Look at the magazines. Goto a Barnes and Noble, you can read one without buying there. Truckin' Magazine is the largest automotive magazine out there at over 250 pages a month. THAT is a HUGE magazine! People customize trucks. One of the first things to go is the stereo. You know who sells stuff to truck owners? Sony, MTX, Rockford Fosgate, Pioneer, Power Acoustik,and so on. Why? Because they run ads and sell stuff to companies that sell truck accessories. They are in the market, people know who they are. I goto my SVTOA and National Lightning Owners Club events and show people my Polk Audio/Kenwood stereo and I have to clean up the drool from jaws hitting the floor. The one thing they all ask besides how much it cost is WHO IS POLK AUDIO? About the only Mid to High grade company that makes audio equipment that they know of is Rockford Fosgate and they view them as the Holy Grail of car audio because they don't know any better because nobody told them! The truck accessorie business is a multi-billion dollar a year business and audio products are roughly 10-15% of that, according to SEMA. How can anyone ignore a slice of that large of a pie that is that big?

As far as the "ricer" thing being a fad, it is. Sport/Compact Performance or Import performance is not. It has been around since the 40's and 50's when cars like Triumphs, Austin Healeys, MG's, Aston Martin's, Ferrari's, sPa's, Fiat's, Alfa Romeo's and so on were tearing up the streets. The Anime look to these cars that are nothing more than all-show, no-go is the fad part. As soon as this generation hits maturity, they will not be too interested in that stuff anymore. It happens. These fads are based in realistic hobbies like hot rodding. Take a look at Vans, remember them? Truckin' Magazine should have been called Vannin' Magazine! Hell, even Hot Rod got in on the act! Now the only time I see vans is hauling kids or contractors. It's a fad that will pass and the true enthusiasts and tuners (aka: hot rodders) will still be around. So don't get uppity about it. Nobody is accusing anybody of anything.

As far as overall issues, I think I got the big picture. I think you think you have the big picture but it's a bit bigger than you care to believe. I can't give Polk Audio ideas on what to make an ad say. I'm not a marketing guy. I am a gearhead than has been hanging around cars for about 15 years now. I know the industry, I know quite a few people that would serve to impress but I don't like to drop names. I know what works, I know what doesn't. I've seen alot come and go. I've seen alot come and stay. What I am saying is that I am speaking form experience. It may seems biased or skewed but it really isn't. Polk Audio has the right idea going after the Sport Compact crowd. And if you ask me, the "boom-boom" reputation came from the Sport Compact owners. And while the Sport Compact crowd is a big market, the truck market is at least twice as big. That is the truth and anyone who doesn't see merit to that or a profit margin well, they are just blind and in denial.

Jstas

Originally posted by Thom
When I said that I didn't think Momo was big in trucks, I don't mean Polk/ Momo speakers- I'm talking about Momo seats, pedals, etc. I realize that truck sales are huge and SUV sales keep increasing but the Momo thing appeals most to guys with "sporty" cars. Or guys that think their car is sporty. I think if the current ads ran in truck magazines most people would overlook it because it says Polk/ Momo and all the ads are cars (and mostly imports). We would need completely different ads and that's not my department.

So don't market the MOMO lines. Market the DB line. And MOMO offers truck wheels, steering wheels, seats, harnesses and hell, damn near everything else that they have will fit a truck. But they don't market to trucks at all so of course no one in trucks knows that MOMO has anything for thier vehicles.

Thom

Uh, Paul, I counted them and I got 3...

RuSsMaN

Not knocking Escape owners out there, but isn't the Escape more of a (use an Elmer Fudd inflection) twuck than a truck ?

PoweredByDodge

eh -- escape is an suv -- its a smaller one, but when u think about the fact that the OLD chevy blazer (like 98 - 2001) was virtually the same size or maybe a little smaller, you begin to relize that the escape isn't small -- suv's have just been on steroids last few years.

escape is like the suv equiv of a ranger or s-10... while you're excursion is monstrous.

anywho -- thom's right more or less -- truck owners may not find "MOMO" attractive... they may not even know who momo is... and while momo makes truck stuff... i'll grant you that most people probably didn't even know it.

however... i dont think u'd be marketing momo itself to truck owners... you'd be marketing polk -- u know there are two names in that "Polk-Momo" -- since the ricers like to forget the first one exists, the truck people can forget the 2nd one exists.

i think u get the general idea -- push product specs, features, performance on the truck / suv community -- push the cosmetics, the momo name, etc etc on the rice community.

u guys musta really took a big hit budget wise, either that or magazine ad prices went through the roof -- cuz i used to see like maybe 2 ad's a month in random magazines for polk stuff, whether it was HT or 12V, i haven't seen one now in a while.

dont fret though -- i dont think mag ads make or break anybody's co. -- its word of mouth. when little johnny b. good wants to get his new speakers on his 17th birthday, his buddies are all gonna say "Get this, get that, get whatever" -- and he's gonna buy that stuff... so getting into somebody's car quick and makin em happy is key. note - can't just get in the car if u dont make em happy -- cant make em happy if u dont get in the car... both are essential.

ugh -- i dont wanna do my homework -- i'm killing time... *twiddling fingers*... *whining* i wanna go play with the car, my grandmother hoodwinked the old man and got insurance for it today -- plates tomorrow... life is good

PoweredByDodge

LMFAO @ Reagan....lolol.

"why i was just tellin nancy..." -- lolol.

best part was i could HEAR the voice as i was reading it...

Steve@3dai

Originally posted by Jstas
Steve,
You are looking at it from a very biased point of view.

And you aren't? All you've been talking about lately is how Polk has been denying the truck/suv market. I didn't mention any kind of bias in my first statement. Please, before jumping to conclusions read again. I've been in the audio biz for a while, and into cars longer. Please, don't mistake me for some newbie ricer that just wants boom. I know what music is, and I know what it sounds like. I know what cars and trucks can do.

One guy puts a 8k dvd system in his car, wow, that's one person. Now if millions of people but 8k dvd systems in their car, then that's a market. Let's not go into the "I know this one guy...." arguements.

And if you think the "boom boom" came from the sport compact crown, you sir, are quite mistaken. It was the mini-trucks, and low-riders of the 80s that had systems to bust out the new "rap" sound that was progressing into the mainstream.

The normal consumer does not want amps in their car, fancy headunits, and other devices that cause complexity to their driving experience and look like a nice item to steal for thieves. There are people out there working for car companies on their built-in dvd systems to make them as simple and user friendly as possible. A lot of the aftermarket systems have a required learning curve to use, which most people don't want to fool with.

I've been to CES, thanks, I am well aware of what is out there. I am involved with the local car clubs and meet all types of people with trucks, suvs, hot rods, and sport compacts. I'm not a one trick pony.

I was making a general, non-confronting arguement and you attacked me. That's not how you should discuss something.

Steve@3dai

And please, stop with the rice generalizations. You are making assumptions that are not correct. A lot of the "rice" out there can embarrass a lot of the "redneck".

What if I renamed the hot rod/truck scene to "rednecks" or "hicks"? I don't think you'd appreciate that.

RuSsMaN

Good one Paul!

Rice to me is the 'stickers = horsepower' crowd. (or yellow paint it seems). The 'ricers' in my book are the posers that strap on a Boeing wing, a **** pipe, and a 'powered by' sticker and somehow think they now have a race car.

As far as the 'real' import enthusiasts (ones that actually tune and make perf mods), I think it's cool, and actually reminds me of the stories my dad would tell me about hot-rodding in the 40's and 50's. Lots of similarities, limited budget, modding 'cheap', lightweight (for the time) cars in their garages and backyards on the weekends.

///end de-rail, sorry///

Cheers,
Russ

Jstas

Originally posted by "Polk" Paul DiComo
The truck and SUV market is HUGE and there is plenty of aftermarket audio gear going into them. Just go to any midwestern or southern city on a summer weekend and the odds or good that there will be a truck or mini-truck show going on with most of the vehicles have some sort of aftermarket ICE. There a re dozens of magazines and web sites dedicated to trucks.

When we were outlining our marketing plans for this year we realized that we could not afford to address both the import sport compact folks AND the truck fans AND the hot rod/American lovers. We saw the biggest opportunity with sport compacts and focused there with a token presence in Muscle Mustang mag. Our hope is that sales will grow, thereby increasing the ad budget and we can reach out to the truck guys too.

We love trucks and know of quite a few top-notch show trucks where the owners chose Polk, so if we do ads with trucks we have plenty of candidates to shoot (photographically). BTW, we have two, count 'em, 2 Escapes.

Paul (Polk Marketing Manager/PR guy)

Now that is an honest answer without excuses! thank you, I completely understand. I was never trying to guilt you guys into doing something that wasn't financially feasible. I just saw way too many disparaging remarks concerning the community and it led me to believe that there was a woefully bad misconception. I nor anyone else who responded, recieved an answer like you gave. Now that I understand, it's all good.