Balanced IC question

98Badger

I've recently upgraded my gear so all the electronics have fully balanced circuitry. As of now, I am using monoprice XLR's. After doing a comparison to Emotiva XLR's (because a friend has them), the monoprice cable seems to produce a harsher sound (cymbals sound tinny) by comparison and causes a bit of listening fatigue. I'm now considering Canare L-4E6S Star Quad's with the Neutrik connectors. I'd appreciate any input from those that have tried these or other options in the same price range.

Toolfan66

How many hours do you have on the Monoprice?? Maybe give them a few..

If the Emo still sounds better then use them..

Also what gear are you running?? Not all gear with XLR's is true balanced..

98Badger

I have about 50 hours on the Monoprice cables. I will give the a little time yet. The Emotiva cables weren't mine, so I'd have to order if I decide to go that route.

My gear is true balanced. Anthem D1, Wyred4Sound Dac2, and Emotiva XPA-1's.

megasat16

Not to meant to offend you or not wanting to a smartie pant but I like to point out that true balanced processing requires from the input to the output (i.e the output section of DAC as a source, both input and output of a preamp, and both input and output of an amp).

I am not sure D1, W4S, and X1000 has true balanced construction in this manners. Having a balanced connector doesn't ensure true balanced designs.

You should check with Emotiva whether it is true balanced from input to output stage. It may just have the input summing for balanced circuit and it's not quite the same.

Face

I found Monoprice's interconnects awful.

I've been using Neotech NEI-3004 with Vampire XLR connectors and also braided Neotech 24ga solid silver chassis wire with Vampire XLR's. The NEI cable is a little warmer with a fuller bottom end and the solid core images slightly better, is more detailed, but the bottom end is more neutral or borderline thin. I have some Neotech copper 20ga solid core cable here I'm going to experiment with next.

megasat16

Face wrote: »

I found Monoprice's interconnects awful.

That goes without saying but I found them excellent value for the subs connection (only for sub) in my HT. I won't be using them for the 2 channels rig though.

Face wrote: »

I've been using Neotech NEI-3004 with Vampire XLR connectors and also braided Neotech 24ga solid silver chassis wire with Vampire XLR's. The NEI cable is a little warmer with a fuller bottom end and the solid core images slightly better, is more detailed, but the bottom end is more neutral or borderline thin. I have some Neotech copper 20ga solid core cable here I'm going to experiment with next.

You got them from SonicCraft too? I am thinking to DIY some XLR I/C too. I am looking at different wires from SonicCraft now. MIT is boring as hell now.

cstmar01

megasat16 wrote: »

Not to meant to offend you or not wanting to a smartie pant but I like to point out that true balanced processing requires from the input to the output (i.e the output section of DAC as a source, both input and output of a preamp, and both input and output of an amp).

I am not sure D1, W4S, and X1000 has true balanced construction in this manners. Having a balanced connector doesn't ensure true balanced designs.

You should check with Emotiva whether it is true balanced from input to output stage. It may just have the input summing for balanced circuit and it's not quite the same.

I do not think the XPA-1 has a balanced circuit. From everything I read it is not truly balanced.

kawizx9r

megasat16 wrote: »

I am not sure D1, W4S, and X1000 has true balanced construction in this manners. Having a balanced connector doesn't ensure true balanced designs.

You should check with Emotiva whether it is true balanced from input to output stage. It may just have the input summing for balanced circuit and it's not quite the same.

+1

I learned alot when I did alot of reading and educated myself on true balanced components. The design is completely different :eek:

ESavinon

Face wrote: »

I found Monoprice's interconnects awful.

I've been using Neotech NEI-3004 with Vampire XLR connectors and also braided Neotech 24ga solid silver chassis wire with Vampire XLR's. The NEI cable is a little warmer with a fuller bottom end and the solid core images slightly better, is more detailed, but the bottom end is more neutral or borderline thin. I have some Neotech copper 20ga solid core cable here I'm going to experiment with next.

I'm a fan of Fuller Bottom end too mike.

98Badger

Thanks for all the input so far. All my gear has fully balanced inputs and outputs, but I'll have to do some more digging to see if the circuits are fully balanced from input to output stages. That being said, I do notice an improvement in resolution and detail using the XLR connections. The monoprice XLR's will definately not be staying in my system.

I was actually looking at the Vampire stuff a couple of days ago. Maybe I'll find something to hold me over and eventually get around to making my own interconnects.

Toolfan66

You can still benifit from XLR's even if the gear is not fully balanced in and out..

BlueFox

Don't worry about whether your gear meets some type of ideal design to use XLRs. I prefer the XLRs since they are generally better built, and provide solid connections. Usually you are not going to find XLR connections on low-end gear, and companies providing XLR connections have an interest in their customers hearing good sound coming from their gear.

Anyway, while perhaps a bit out of your price range I replaced my Kimber Kable Hero XLRs with MIT Shotgun S1.3 XLRs, and it really made a big improvement. The sound stage opened up, and the detail in the music is much clearer. The MITs really made a big improvement. I have had these since the beginning of summer, and I just ordered the matching MIT S1.3 speaker cables to complete the MIT system.

Toolfan66

MIT's Rule!!!! hell your in for a treat getting the MIT speaker cables as well...

megasat16

BlueFox wrote: »

Usually you are not going to find XLR connections on low-end gear, and companies providing XLR connections have an interest in their customers hearing good sound coming from their gear.

I think that statement in general is incorrect. Some really High End gears do not have XLR connections.

Likewise, a gear featuring XLR type connector does not assure the company has interest for the better sound for their customer.

All Pro Audio uses XLR connectors too.

megasat16

TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »

MIT's Rule!!!!

Yes, the school is! :cool:

kawizx9r

megasat16 wrote: »

All Pro Audio uses XLR connectors too.

Yep, and that's usually because the interconnect runs are fairly long :eek:

I've yet to hear a fully balanced system, but I've heard a few pieces alone.

98Badger

BlueFox wrote: »

Don't worry about whether your gear meets some type of ideal design to use XLRs. I prefer the XLRs since they are generally better built, and provide solid connections.

Anyway, while perhaps a bit out of your price range I replaced my Kimber Kable Hero XLRs with MIT Shotgun S1.3 XLRs, and it really made a big improvement. The sound stage opened up, and the detail in the music is much clearer. The MITs really made a big improvement. I have had these since the beginning of summer, and I just ordered the matching MIT S1.3 speaker cables to complete the MIT system.

I guess I let myself go off track on the fully balanced vs. true balanced thing. I started reading and it peaked my interest. Looks like gear that is true balanced is above my pay grade but it made for some good reading.

I'm still trying to decide on a cable budget, so I'm considering all options. The Anthem D1 and W4S Dac are new aquisitions, so my audio fund has pretty much been drained for a while. Like I mentioned earlier, I definately hear improvements using the XLR connections. Previously I was firmly in the "cables don't make a difference" camp. I may start on the affordable end and try some new ones when I have more disposable income. Maybe I'll get lucky and find someone close who can bring some higher quality cables over so I can demo them in my own system. Just curious what gear you are using BlueFox.

Hawkeye

If your interested in an off the shelf reasonable XLR, try Mogami Gold available from The Guitar Center. Not a lot to look at, but a solid, accurate cable for not a lot of bucks.

I have several pair in rotation in my two channel system.

Gordon

Glad to see you took a chance and at least tried various wires. It can be difficult to change our minds on things like this

zingo

98Badger wrote: »

I'm now considering Canare L-4E6S Star Quad's with the Neutrik connectors. I'd appreciate any input from those that have tried these or other options in the same price range.

Canare L-4E6S was the most successful DIY IC cables I've made and it's good stuff. I've been playing around with Cardas stuff lately, but I still use the L-4E6S for internal wiring of electronics, especially where shielding and noise rejection would make a difference. It's a great cable and makes some of the best cost/performance DIY ICs.

Face

Jake, what do you think of Cardas' I/C cables? I found them to be rolled off up top. They also turn the tip of my iron a goldish color.

Gadabout

My 2 ch rig is being run with all XLR interconnects. Has a mixture of Silver resolution and Analog 2 balanced from Signal Cable. Running all silver interconnects made the system a bit bright. Mixing it up help with the presence and fullness of the sound.

Scott