Speaker recommendation for a 13 x 13 foot room.

asmd

hi guys..


i recently got the short end of the stick when i ended up with the smallest room in the house for my study. i currently use the following gear:
cambridge 640a amp with a pair of focal 806V with their dedicated stands. i used to have the focals down in the den but have since acquired a pair of polk lsi 25 that are simply sublime. (took some time, but they got there. )

now heres the thing. the focals sounded real good in the den, but they are a bit on the bright side and in the study they have become annoyingly bright especially when i turn up the volume. they're pushed up against the wall, the rooms small. and a sofa is against the back wall as the listening spot. not much wiggle room for any kind of positioning. at most, i can pull them out a foot from the wall which hardly makes a difference. ive tried what i can and still find them bright. its very forward sounding. while in the den, they had room to breathe and threw an expansive engaging sound stage but now its a bit too much in my face for my liking.

i have since fallen much in love with the sweet smooth sound of the big lsi's. its got a laid back open sound. no harshness at all. and i was thinking of getting a pair of LSI9's to use in the study hoping that it would emulate the sound that i like.

question is.. anybody have a nice laid back bookshelf in smallish room that they would like to suggest? has anyone tried the lsi9's in a smallish room?
are they other options that dont cost a grand?

i pondered about wharfedale, but i have no idea what their sonic signature is like.

the ones that are off the list are: klipsch, PSB, Paradigm, Totem - they all tend to be a bit bright.



should i just damp the heck out the the far wall to reduce the brightness... would probably cost as much as buying a pair of speakers. the nice thing about the focals are the speakers are bolted onto the stands.. no accidental tipping.

any and all replies, suggestions etc are much appreciated.

edit: just realised i posted int he wrong forum.. if a mod would care to move it to the correct place, i would be much obliged. my bad.

regards,
asmd.

BlueFox

More than likely the sound is bright due to reflections. I suspect room treatments are in order.

Just as an example, my HT room has 4 LSi15s, a PSB Synchrony One center, PSW1000 sub, a 57" RPTV at one end, and a couch at the other. The room is 12x11, and it sounds great. However, until I added Auralex Acoustic Foam on the walls, it was bright. The foam dialed the sound in. At first I overdid it and deadened the sound, but, since it only takes a push pin to attach the foam, it was easy to tweak.

asmd

@ bluefox.

the room is certainly lively. the handclap resonates to the point of annoyance.
which auralex foam did you use and how effective were they to tame the treble?

theres these:



and



which walls did you treat?

regards,
asmd.

asmd

http://www.thefoamfactory.com/acousticfoam/pyramidfoam.html

this is cheaper... covers 48sq feet for 70 bucks.
anybody have experience with this?

the ATS room calculator rang up 37sq feet for my room dimensions.

asmd

Lasareath wrote: »

These are the ones i have, when my room was 14x12 I had 9 and it sounded great!

http://www.atsacoustics.com/item--ATS-Acoustic-Panel-24x48x4--1008.html

thanks for the reply.
i would need 5 if the ATS calculator is to be believed.

i wonder if cheaper foam is as effective at damping.
if anybody's tried it or have any experience with them, do chime in.

regards,
asmd.

Joe08867

I found using Absorption Drapes directly across from the front speakers did a lot for my old square room. it was 12x12 with an 8ft ceiling. A throw rug that was 5x8 did the rest.

asmd

how well do panels damp the higher frequencies/deaden the room compared to foam?

thinking between ats and auralex now....

steveinaz

I agree room treatments will be priority one; the Lsi9 will work fine as long as you keep them off the back wall as far as possible---try for a minimum of 16" from the rear of the cabinets. You may not want your listening chair up against the opposite wall, as this will enhance already enhanced mid-bass bloom; due to the tonal characteritics of the Lsi9, the small size of the room, and the fact that it is square.

reeltrouble1

you want to damp the back wall and the side walls just a bit beyond the speakers, you want to diffuse the back wall, something is better than nothing.

generally you do not want your chair in the geometric center of the room, however, anomolies do exist which makes that only a guide or start point.

RT1

asmd

steveinaz wrote: »

I agree room treatments will be priority one; the Lsi9 will work fine as long as you keep them off the back wall as far as possible---try for a minimum of 16" from the rear of the cabinets. You may not want your listening chair up against the opposite wall, as this will enhance already enhanced mid-bass bloom; due to the tonal characteritics of the Lsi9, the small size of the room, and the fact that it is square.

if i did that, id be sitting 3 feet away from that. the rooms too darned small. im now looking into dampening the room.
still trying to wrap my head around auralex sonoflats and ats hanging panels.

BlueFox

asmd wrote: »

@ bluefox.

the room is certainly lively. the handclap resonates to the point of annoyance.
which auralex foam did you use and how effective were they to tame the treble?

which walls did you treat?

I used pyramids. That is a 3rd type. I have a 2x4 at the reflection point on each side wall, two 2x4 panels on the back wall, and a 2x2 on each corner wall extending about 1' above the top of the LSi15s. I had some 2x2 on the ceiling, but took them off.

zingo

LSi9s would sound good in there if you already like the LSi sound.

asmd

have decided to try a bit of both starting with Auralex Studiofoam Designer Kit on the rear wall and maybe a couple of ATS panels on the front wall if required later on.

sm88

http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

Everything you need to know and then some about room acoustics. Acoustic foam is far more expensive and less effective than rigid fiberglass, this guide covers materials, placement, etc.

asmd

thanks for the reply. at the moment, it seems to tbe the midrange and upper frequencies that are bothersome. and acoustic foam and rigid fiberglass seem to absorb the same amount. rigid fiberglass is much better at lower frequencies.

i plan to use the acoustic foam first and then add some ATS panels to see if they help further.

where would be the ideal place to position them.. first reflection would be on the rear wall, so theres where i treat first?

mantis

Keep your speakers for now , let me see your room and seating position. I can help you get the most out of a bad room.

asmd

mantis wrote: »

Keep your speakers for now , let me see your room and seating position. I can help you get the most out of a bad room.

appreciate the help mantis. im open to suggestions.
heres the room/man cave.. err tiny man cave. heck, it accommodates a couple of mates for drinks while the den's overrun by the women, kids and spongebob... thats good enough for the moment. dont mind the mess, its still a work in progress with me moving stuff all over the place. also dont mind the sub, it just needed a place to sit. its not plugged in. while it does add to the bottom end, i leave it mostly off for stereo use, so ignore it with regards to suggestions.

i measured the room, its 11x10x9.


from the doorway looking in.


facing the speakers.


facing the listening position/couch. my spots on the left next to the audio rack. to the left is a closet that ive removed the doors to accomodates shelves.

the room is live. a clap test causes obvious ringing and thats ruining the sound.

ive got an auralex 32 piece 1x1x2" acoustic foam kit in the mail that i plan to place on the rear wall to damp the room. if thats insufficient, to be followed by 2 or 3 2x4 ATS acoustic panels on the front wall over and between the speakers. well, thats the plan so far.

suggestions chaps?

regards,
asmd.

asmd

err... bump?

nooshinjohn

I feel your pain bro... wish I had some advice for you.

fishbones

Seems like you're thinking you have to dampen entire walls - that's not the case at all from what I understand. But, room acoustics is definitely something that would benefit your situation (it would benefit many). You can overdampen too - creating other problems, so you don't want to overdo it any more than you want to underdo it. Main dampening should occur at reflection points like someone mentioned earlier. Member BlakeH did a great review on room acoustics awhile back. It helped me understand alot....

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86154&highlight=room+treatments

asmd

hi, thanks for the link. i just read through it and some more via the links provided.
apparently, most first reflections are on side walls. i have a window and a closet as my side walls, so i cant hang anything there.
my room is live, its reverberating just with a hand clap.
if im not mistaken, aurelax foam is not so position specific.. am i correct?
i only have front and back walls that i can apply it to.

orrb_05

I just came into some Swan D2.1SE. I use them for two channel listening, as my RTi12s are just too bright. I use the RTi series for some multi-channel listening - though they can still be a wee-bit bright. Great for HT however.

The Swans remind me of the LSi9s I use to have, except not as laid back, and the swans soundstage is musch better (IMO). My set-up is in a 13'x14' room that opens into another 14'x16' room... so a sub provides the deep end.

The Swan D1.1SE are a little smaller than the 2.1 and might work well for you.

http://www.theaudioinsider.com/product_info.php?p=swan-d2-1se&products_id=69

http://www.theaudioinsider.com/product_info.php?p=swan-d1-1se&products_id=140

asmd

ive just finished damping the back wall with auralex studiofoam and the front wall with owen corning 703 broadband absorbers. not the entire wall but about 70%. its gotten rid of the flutter echo and passes the hand clap. the 806v's sound so good in the den. it could be just that they need more space to breath than what i have to offer them in my small listening room.

the 806vs are still a bit bright and forward but much better than before. i cant damp the sidewalls as its a window on one side and a closet on the other. im now having problems with peaks at about 125-160hz. am still contemplating between a bass trap and a dsp to sort that out.

thanks for the suggestion wrt to the swans, ive heard good things about it.
but it cost about the same as lsi9s.... if i do try another pair, might still go fro the 9s.

coolsax

also be aware those Swan 2.1se need room to breath in the back.. They are suggested to be 3 ft from the back wall in most reviews and items i've seen about them. Which I think in this case would not work well at all.