opinions change

PoweredByDodge

why not just run two?

i know nobody likes mtx, but you can get two 81000D's brand new off ebay for 290 bucks each ... thats 600 bucks for almost 3,000 watts... at least 2500 watts... and all u gotta do is get a sub that is dual 2 ohm coil and run one amp to each coil.

PoweredByDodge

btw, - the 81kd is 20v / us and greater than 200 d.f. -- not spectacular but certainly not bad by any stretch of the imagination for a class D amp considereing what i've been seeing lately, including the one you stated.

MTXMAN

i'm realy looking for something with cleaner power for those diamond TDX's... i just don't think MTX is in the class to power those properly... I'm going to have two Diamond TDX subs in my trunk (12's) and i need an amp in about the 1000 dollar range that will power them well... I'd love to go with the diamond amps but those are double my prefered price range... And i realy think D is going to be my best bet for the power and small drain to my electrical...

sntnsupermen131

what kind of amp are you looking for?
as in how many watts?
are theyr 4 ohm speakers?
-Cody

PoweredByDodge

well that's the problem -- u're hooked on class D -- in that class you're not going to get much or any better than the specs of the MTX... u can look down on the nameplate all u want, hell i've gotten to doing so a bit lately, but in the class D category, regardless of manufacturer, it doesn't get much better... but that is simply due to the limitations of the class D design.

i still think a USamps 2000 would obliterate anything else. 2k x 1 at 2 ohms or 2k x 1 at 4 ohms (X model). that's like 900 on ebay i think. but thats class AB

the zapco c2k 6.0 is like 1400 watts at 2 ohms and its got much better specs than most class D's.... its not up as good as the USamps, but it is a class D.... retail is like 1300 bucks i believe.

however, in the end, two 81000d's would blow the casing off the c2k 6.0 or even the 2000x... loud is loud... 3000 watts is 3000 w.

C-Man

http://caraudio.primediaautomotive.com/archives/spfeatures/0202_spfeatures01.shtml


http://www.caraudiomag.com/specialfeatures/0202cae_amp/

Check those out man. They both compare 4 different amp setups around 2kw. Pretty much the same comparison, but the second gives you rankings for the amps in different categories.

By the way I just wanted to tell you guys about a douchebag I saw on some site that was running a C2K 9.0 at 8 ohms to a single MB Quart 12". Then he was running a C2K 6.0 to a set of MB Quart comps... and on top of all of it he was running his factory speakers for rear fill.... Um............ WHY!!! Hell, if he wanted Zapco, get the 1100m and run it at 2 ohm for the same amount of power. I'm gonna find that link too.

http://www.m-emag.com/article.asp?section_id=11&article_id=66&page_number=4

MTXMAN

k, Refresher on what the subs are... 2 dual 2ohm VC 12" Diamond Audio TDX subs, i believe that they are 2000wrms, planing on running them on a one ohm load with one amp for each sub... hoping to get each amp for around a grand (can go a little over for better quality if i need to to get the sound i want)
I can also go with the dual 4ohm model and run 2 ohm if i can't find a suitable 1ohm stable amp...

C-Man

Any of the amp setups in that link should work except for maybe the Crossfire since it's two amps already. You can run the C2k or the USAmps at 4 ohms and get over 2k from each amp. The earthquakes you can run at 1 ohm I believe. So any of those should be ok for you.

Plus with the C2K and the Us Amps, if you run them at 4 ohm you'll get better sound quality, lower thd, better slew rate, better damping factor, all that good stuff.

The earthquake puts out about 1900 I believe it said. At 649 that's a pretty good deal.

PoweredByDodge

the problem with earthquake, and why i never even came close to mentioning them, is the same as pointed out by the authors of the articles posted --- they're filthy... they make mtx look as clean as Vaccuum Tube amps.

the specs on the zapco 9.0 are very similar to the mtx as well.... spec for spec down the list... one is left to wonder "why bother buying this zapco, it puts out 2k watts but its no cleaner than circuit city stuff"...

just about nobody makes a CLEAN 2000 watt amp... its hard to do, its not cheap, and its not a highly demanded for item.

i'll not interrupt the post anymore w/ my incessant banter however i'll stick by my first reccomendation -- Tru Tech Sledge Hammer at 5000 x 1 at 1 ohm (will cost you less than 2000 dollars if you look around and dig), or two USA-2000x's (1800 bucks).

MTXMAN

I'm thinking i like the looks of the dual usa amps... mainly cause i want to keep my sub and 4ch amps the same brand and while the c7 from Trutech is a beautiful beast of an amp i think i would go through an alternator a day even with 2 batts in the trunk if i were going with that and the sledge hammer... gonna go look at usa 4ch's now... oh yeah and i think the 3 usa amps will probably fit better in my trunk too... 96 Saturn SC1, not the worlds smallest trunk but it's not that big either...



P.S. PBD i happen to enjoy your incessent rambling

MTXMAN

Here's a beast to rival even the sledge...

USA-6000
Two Channel Class AB Amplifier
Total Power Output: 6000 Watts RMS
THD at Rated Power: 0.1%
Signal/Noise Ratio: >105dBA
Frequency Response: 5Hz-50KHz
Damping Factor: >2500
Fuse Rating: 900 Amps
Dimensions:
114mm / 4.50in High
229mm / 9.0in Wide
629mm / 24.75in Long

Weight: 14.52kg / 32.00lb
Variable 24dB Low-Pass Active Crossover



One Ohm Stable
3000 Watts x 2 into 1 Ohms
6000 Watts Bridged into 2 Ohms
Available in Black or Chrome

*drools* that 900 amp fuse rating will suck the lifeblood from your car though....

MTXMAN

Downside about usamps is that their 4 ch doesn't pack much of a punch... I'm worried that that 75x4 @ 4 ohm isn't gonna cut it for Diamond Audio Hex components... I don't think i'll have enough room for 2 2ch amps either............I need a bigger trunk....

C-Man

Dude, that's not an amp..............that's a powerplant! If you were able to get that amp you'd have to be the biggest pimp on the block. But you'd have to be careful of one thing... You'd have to be careful of the thermo-nuclear core located in an airtight room about a half mile deep inside the amp. Trigger that and the fallout will probably kill millions!

PoweredByDodge

that's a big **** amp -- from what i've been told / can tell that's not a daily driver amp... like i mean not only would your car not be able to power it, but its not built to be run all day long, or even for a few horus, its built for burps. to use it for anything else may "hurt" it.

kinda like low gearing a vehicle to give u power to get outa the ditch and then tryin to peel down the highway with it.


you can run the sledge all day. but again -- u're car would take a dump.


anyway - back to the topic at hand, you're kinda set on sub amps, but u're stressin a 4 channel.

well.... can you get 2 ohm components ??
if you can then u can do like 90 x 2 to the fronts @ 2 ohm and 75 (or less) by 2 to the backs at 4 ohm...

4300X will do 75 x 4 / 90 x 4.

TU-4360 tube amp is gonna do 75 x 4 into 4 ohms / 90 x 4 into 2.

also if u can get the 2 ohm fronts, u can do like a USamps 200 and a USamps 400X and get 200 x 2 (front) / 50 x 2 (rear). else its like a 600 for fronts

MTXMAN

unfortunately the Diamond Audio Hex component sets only come in 4 ohm's... and their RMS power handling is 20-170w... would the 75w give me the power and clarity that i'm looking for in my fronts and rears or do you think it would be lacking??

PoweredByDodge

honestly dude -- its unknown...

its totally dependant on the component set, and i've not got the listening experience with them or the wirign experience with them to tell you the answer.

see you can take a component set like an infinity kappa set... and put say 60 watts on them, and they seem full bodied, rich, and like they're at their full potential... now i hate infinity, but putting that aside, they are doing their full potential around 60 w rms... regardless of what they're rated at.

then you take like the polk DX sets... and i've got 65-ish on my girlfriend's and they're ok... but they can do much much much better with more power. -- have like double the rated RMS on mine and i'm very happy with them... they're at the limits of their physical and electrical capabilities, but they're like ideal for me.

its one of those things you just have to try out -- i have always been of the idea that if you dont know how much power you need for a speaker... get 50 watts more than you think you need. then you're like safe.

if you can find somebody who's got those diamond hex's and has them wired up - and you listen to them and you play around with the dial and see how it goes... then you can make a better decision.

but dude -- if they say 175

---

and you x them like 100-ish or so... you'll prolly be able to throw like 225 +++++++++ on them. and from your old post about the cop pullin you over for the MM6's, i gather that you do enjoy playing your audio loud... 75 watts isn't loud (waiting to be beaten over the head by people telling me 75 watts is loud -- i know its 'loud' - but its not 175 watts worth of loud).

hell your amps dont have to match... when i see people with all matching amps i sit there and think to myself "what have they had to compromise on to make it all one brand and series of amp ??" even if i wanted to - there's no way i could have all thunder series mtx amps in my truck and be happy... i tried the 6304 bridged to my fronts - didn't like it. i'm just lucky i was able to get the same brand / different series.

you can probably like get a alpine 4 channel and bridge it to your fronts... do like 200 - 225 x 2 or something. and a little alpine one like 50 x 2 for the rears... alpine amps tend to be reasonably sized physically like, and they look really good and sleek and professional and ****. alpine would prolly sound better for highs than USamps anyway - unless you were using one of their tube amps, which aren't even bridgeable i dont think. i mean usamps is a company which prides themselves on two things -- the 1000a/x and the 2000a/x ... that butters their bread... everything else is kind of an after thought or brain ****. like you could say polk made most of their money off sales of EX III equipment last year and that's their main meat stuff --- well usamps is like a very bad example of that -- the 1k and 2k are it for them... that's all their noted for as of late... they had some HC's that are a few model years old that keep popping up, but its the 1k and 2k that you see everywhere... and if you look at the sheets, the 1k and 2k have the absolute best ratings, everything else kinda falls off in to "normal" ratings.

MTXMAN

hey guys what do you know about audiobahn amps... they have some pretty impressive specs from what they show on the site... the most impressive is 2400x2@1ohm....

the main one i was looking at though is 250x4... lota power...


let me know what you think...

MTXMAN

ok i've been looking around and here are some of the options that i've come up with...

4 ch amps...

Kicker KX800.4
100x4 @4 ohm

Kicker SX900.4
107x4 @4 ohm but with a sweet **** dispaly ;D

for specs on above go to www.kicker.com

Orion 8004
100x4 @4 ohm

for specs on above go to www.orioncaraudio.com

Rockford Fosgate Power 851X
110x4 @4 ohm

for specs on above go to www.rockfordfosgate.com

Soundstream vangogh vg500.4
125x4 @4 ohm

for specs on above go to http://www.soundstream.com/sub/products_amps_vangogh.html

Soundstream Human Reign 4
125x4
looks impressive spec wise and if nothing else go to the site and look at the amp it's a phreak of an amp... I've never in my life seen an amp like this one

for specs on above go to http://www.soundstream.com/sub/products_amps_human.html

Precision Power PCX-4125
125x4 @4 ohm
.... not sure if the thd is supposed to be 02% or if it's supposed to be .02% but it's a pretty big difference that that decimal makes...

for specs on above go to http://www.precisionpower.com/amps/pcx4125.asp

My other option is to go with 2 2ch amps and i've found 2 models so far that would fit...

Alpine MRV-T420
110x2 @4 ohm
not too sure alpine is of the calibre that i want to go with though...

for specs on above go to www.alpine-usa.com

And last but not least 2 US Amps TU-600 Tube amps
150x2 @4 ohm

and of course they are at www.usamps.com

let me know what you guys think of those options...
and feedback on the freaky human reign amp from soundstream sould be interesting ;D

MTXMAN

hehehe silly me almost forgot the Planet Audio
Apocalypse AP500.4
MOSFET 4-Channel Power Amplifier
Max Power (2 ohm) : 250w x 4
RMS Power (4 Ohms) : 125w x 4 + 0.04% THD
Bridged Power (4 Ohms) : 500w x 2
Signal-to-Noise Ratio : 102dB
Frequency Response : 20Hz-20kHz
Dimensions: : 21-3/8"L x3"H x 12-1/4"W

PoweredByDodge

I like the specs of the Soundstream Human Reign 4... and the looks... FREAKY! i love it! ...lolol... however the van gogh has a slightly better frequency range. 10 to 50k hz versus 10 to 40k hz... anything over 30 is prolly completely unnecessary, but i mean you're stressin quality here... and 40 is stellar... 50 is amazing... i doubt most of the other amps on there are going to have as broad a range... most amps are 20 to 20 k.

the other good thing about soundstream is that they make GIGANTIC amps too... they dont list their slew rates but with a damping factor over 500, one would assume a slew rate of at least 20 or 30 v / us.

all of these would require one amp per sub...

Tarantula ....
http://www.soundstream.com/sub/products_amps_tarantula.html
2000 x 1 at 4 ohms - dude its got 32 BJT's in the output stage... KILLER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and its gorgeous lookin -- two of these and one of those Human Reign amps would look amazing.

or even stick w/ the tarantula series and go w/ a TR500.4 at 125 x 4.

i have not looked at dimensions or size but they're big old honkin amps


i never though much of kicker... the orion seems fine - i looked into it for another guy in the boards - but 100 x 4 seems a bit weak, hell 125 x 4 seems a shade low but if nobody's offering anytyhing bigger u're stuck. soundstream is a solid company with a good reputation and i wouldn't hesitate to use their product if i had the cash laying around.


audiobahn is horrible. i'll leave that one at that.


i dunno if i posted this before in this thread, but take a peak at this amp...

http://www.lightningaudio.com/2003/products/index.asp?catid=1
Lightning audio Strike Series S2.800.4

it's a "staggered" 4 channel -- it'll do 60 x 2 to one stage and 150 x 2 to the other stage. it can be bridged to do like 240 x 1 and 600 x 1, but i just thought that the 150 x 2 up front and 60 x 2 out back might be what you'd be lookin for and it would be all in one amp. it doesn't have any hard specs on it other than power so you'd have to call lightning for that but its worth a peek at.

MTXMAN

about the 2 stage... i want to keep my power equal front and rear since i have identical fronts and rears (Diamond audio hex all around) so i need at least 100-125w to each speaker...

I like the turantula to but there's no way they'd fit... i'm gonna have to put one sub amp mounted to the back of the box and the other mounted to the back of my back seats...

Also what do you think of going with 2 of the higher power US Amps 2ch tube amps??? they'd fit perfectly...

PoweredByDodge

the two tube amps would be cool -- just kinda figured u weren't into USamps... so i didn't harp on em.

as far as identical speakers -- that's irrelevant.... are both comp sets up front? if so then ya u want equal power... if one set is in the back however, then you'll only use like half or maybe less of what you use on the front ... otherwise it'll sound all wacked out.

anywho -- more power never hurt anybody -- i'm sure if you found a USamps wholesaler and told him u wanted the 4 amps, he'd cut you some sort of a really good deal...

MTXMAN

I like us amps but i think their 4 ch's are a little weak for me...
with the intent on keeping stagerd i could use a TU-600 and a TU-4360 which would give me 150 to my fronts and 75 to my rears... that and i've heard that if you can go with tube amps you should (been told they blow standard amps outa the water)

Not too sure about lightning audio... i've never had a very high opinion of them mainly from the stores that i know of that sell them(low quality shops) I could be wrong about them though...

let me know your opinion on the human reign vs us tube amps...

Systems

advantages of human reign -- funky casing, good brand name, prolly a nice amp.

advantages of usamps tube amps -- matches the two 2000x's u'd be getting, will give you 25 watts per channel more up front, and give u the option of chooseing what u wanna do for rear power (more, equal, less, whatever - since u'd have 2 amps) .... and dude -- you could piss on all your friends daily with "I've got tube amps -- you've got shizzle doggy fizzle next to me"...

if you have hte cash, and 150 x 2 up front is enough juice for you - then by all means do the US tubes. i dont really believ ein using the same amp for fronts and rears (ie a 4 channel) in a big high power system... lots of advantages (mostly tuning, options, and what if one channel blows? kinds of things) to havein 2 amps.

have u priced any of this up yet? just curious how much this is settin ya back.

the human reign is a phat lookin amp - but 125 AB versus 150 tube... i mean 125 AB versus 125 tube is clear enough to go with tube.. the extra power just makes it a lock for me... i like soundstream's **** -- whats good is u can prolly if u want pick all SS **** to use -- if not -- the USA stuff is killer too...

me i'd be doin tubes and 2000x's.

MTXMAN

I'm definately goin with the two tube amps after finding out that the human reign is $2,700... way to much for a 4 ch for me now... their hand built though which is nice and they only make one when it is ordered which means 3-4 weeks delivery time ... Well as to pricing, speedsound.com has the best prices i've seen for us amps so i'd be looking at just shy of 3grand before shipping for 2 2000x's a TU600 and a TU4360. which would give me massive power and the stagered fronts and rears that you recomended... since diamond refuses to authorize web dealers i'm forced to go with my local dealer which puts me at about 550 per comp set and 650 for each sub w/ box... so all told i'm looking at about... 5500 with tax shipping etc then i need 1/0 guage power wire and a 4 ch rca (already have the 2 ch and the speakerwire... 12 ga of good quality... 150ft spool for <$40)

the deck is arond 450 (eclipse)

only thing left in planing is to contact us amps and make sure those amps will take a 8v non clipping signal... that could screw me...

MTXMAN

btw finally amped my mm6 with an orion i picked up at a pawn shop for 70 bucks... it's 60x4 (only using 2 ch's atm it sounded like **** bridged... lots of bass distortion and mids were realy weak) sounds gorgeous with even that 60x2... orion makes some good amps (it's about 4 or 5 years old too) i'm just waiting till they get something of equal or higher quality with a higher power rating and only 2 ch so i can trade up

just something to hold me over till i get the grip for my dream system ;D

MTXMAN

hmm.... starting to reconsider the sledge...paired with the T03-4.150 if my car can handle it... i'm getting in touch with them and if i can pull it off i'm goin for it the 2000x's prolly have a 150amp draw each since they have a 300a fuse so that's putting me with probably more draw than the sledge right there that and the T03-4.150 has the same peak draw as two tube amps too... and the specs are gorgeous on that amp as well... i dunno still tossing around ideas in my head i guess...

PoweredByDodge

they're both class AB amps (the 2kx stereo and the sledge AB mono)

if you run the 2k's at 2000 watts, and run the sledge at 4000 watts (pull the gain back or whatever - as u may not want all 5000+ watts depending on how well the subs take it)...

then the two 2kx's at 2000w should be pulling the same amount of current as the sledge at 4000w.

dont look at the fuses, look at efficiency -- most AB's are 65% or about there.... D's are like 85 or better... anyway -- point is... find out the efficiency rating of the amps -- if the sledge is like more than 5% higher efficiency than you may see less of a current draw - if they're iwthin 5% of each other -- its prolly not gonna make any noticeable diff.

150 x 4 + 4000 = 4600 watts rms

4600 / 0.65 = 7077

7077 / 14.4 = 491

that might be a shade high but even if you account for a little error -- 450+ amps is an assload of current... you're going to have to be PREPARED for the current issue.

if you went w/ class D's for the subs -- it'd be more like... 350 - 390 depending on the amps.

MTXMAN

yeah but i'm havin a hard time finding a D amp that will give me 2kw rms with anywhere near decent specs... i'm willing to go with 1 ohm but i'd prefer 4... I'M CONFUSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know what i need.... A hell of a lot more money... then i can afford to do what i want to ;D

PoweredByDodge

allright fk it then...

get the upgraded alt that does 200 or whatever...

then get a GM 1 wire self exciting 250 amp alt -- cost you like 150 bucks if u hunt ebay hardcore -- 200 if u dont.

have somebody fabricate a bracket for it that'll bolt to your block and jump a belt to it -- all u ahve to do is run a wire from teh casing to your blcok's ground (if the fabbed frame isn't grounded ) and then run the red plug to the battery.. boom thats it-- no regulator.

then u got 450.


estimated cost --- ehh maybe lke 150 - 200 to fab it up and get a belt ... so total maybe 350 - 400.